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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,278
9,106
136
Now that it's over, could you relate what she 'delivered' for us plebes?

While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

I'll contribute that Clapper said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.

You have no idea how clearances work.

The Clapper stuff has already been refuted. Your "point" is a widely repeated talking point that was taken entirely out of context.
 
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jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
You have no idea how clearances work.

The Clapper stuff has already been refuted. Your "point" is a widely repeated talking point that was taken entirely out of context.
C'mon, he saw Donny tweet it, so it's a pretty good chance it's a fact.
 

emperus

Diamond Member
Apr 6, 2012
7,813
1,566
136
Now that it's over, could you relate what she 'delivered' for us plebes?

While we're waiting, I'll point out that Flynn received his clearances most recently from the 0bama administration and when it was found out by the Trump administration that Flynn had lied about his interactions with Russian officials he was fired. Which is exactly what should have been done.

I'll contribute that Clapper said there was no evidence of collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign.

You're one gullible dude. Pls. stop outsourcing you mind to Fox News. Jesus... Everything you wrote is white house propaganda easily debunked if you spent 1 second thinking about it.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,722
3,130
136
Sean Spicer continues to clearly state that Trump has no business or financial ties to Russia, yet we know that is a blatant lie as he has received a lot of investment and funding from Russia.

be it real estate...

http://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-trump-property/

or golf courses...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ers-golf-courses-were-funded-by-russians.html

the Trump/Russia problems not only aren't going away, but it is the Trump administration who seems to continue to make it even worse.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I don't defend conservatives. I berate liberals. I am conservative in very few ways. I'm a liberal in many, many ways, and was liberal long before most of the college boys and millennials that infest this place from top to bottom.

The problem here is that the lefties in the forum can't take any sort of criticism because they are so cock-sure and absolutely self-righteous. They are the mirror image of their perceived enemies yet don't realize it. I despise what the left has become. As such I will continue to berate them as I see fit because they deserve it. Will it change anything? Of course not. The self-righteous have no desire to change because they perceive no need to do so. So post on, Jhhnn. No doubt you see no need to change anything.

So who's left to stand against Trump & the Repubs if you keep tearing down the dirty Democrats? The tooth fairy?
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
So who's left to stand against Trump & the Repubs if you keep tearing down the dirty Democrats? The tooth fairy?

Maybe unlike you he's smart enough to know that Democrats are out to screw him and other middle class too, only in a different way than Republicans. You're just in the tank for them because you think they'll go taking money from the rich which will make you feel momentarily better about your lot in life.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
126
I don't defend conservatives. I berate liberals. I am conservative in very few ways. I'm a liberal in many, many ways, and was liberal long before most of the college boys and millennials that infest this place from top to bottom.

The problem here is that the lefties in the forum can't take any sort of criticism because they are so cock-sure and absolutely self-righteous. They are the mirror image of their perceived enemies yet don't realize it. I despise what the left has become. As such I will continue to berate them as I see fit because they deserve it. Will it change anything? Of course not. The self-righteous have no desire to change because they perceive no need to do so. So post on, Jhhnn. No doubt you see no need to change anything.

I'd wager that most of the "liberals" on this forum are GenX or older. Some of the most outspoken are even of the Boomer era. But go ahead and rage away.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
Maybe unlike you he's smart enough to know that Democrats are out to screw him and other middle class too, only in a different way than Republicans. You're just in the tank for them because you think they'll go taking money from the rich which will make you feel momentarily better about your lot in life.
You sound as if you have all the answers. Are you being coy? Come on now, share. The Republicans holding office currently are despicable... How does one [Nation] fix that if not by replacing them with the only other party available? Quick like a bunny create and Institute a viable third party established enough in a year's time to capture enough votes to show those ugly politicians. Go on now, I said quick.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
You realize the clearances Flynn had through the Obama admin pale in comparison to what should have been done before he was appointed NSA right?
-snip-

Obama appointed him to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and then later to the position of Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

I don't readily see how those positions "pale in comparison" etc. Can you explain pls?

Edit: Flynn was also a Lt General. My understanding is that is quite high. I was never in the military and am unfamiliar with various security clearances. It would seem his clearances would be much higher than your average.

Fern
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Obama appointed him to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and then later to the position of Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

I don't readily see how those positions "pale in comparison" etc. Can you explain pls?

Edit: Flynn was also a Lt General. My understanding is that is quite high. I was never in the military and am unfamiliar with various security clearances. It would seem his clearances would be much higher than your average.

Fern

Lt. General is 2nd highest military rank for that respective branch.

Easy to remember mnemonic I was once was told was:

Be My Little General...

Brigadier General = 1 star, Major General = 2 star, Lieutenant General = 3 star, General = 4 star

From left to right in order of lowest rank to highest.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
During the winter, Britain’s GHCQ and other foreign agencies in Australia, Estonia, Poland and Germany began intercepting communications that involved trump’s name and the coming election. They forwarded this information to the US authorities.

Looks like Napolitano wasn't completely off the mark in his claim.

Fern
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Maybe unlike you he's smart enough to know that Democrats are out to screw him and other middle class too, only in a different way than Republicans. You're just in the tank for them because you think they'll go taking money from the rich which will make you feel momentarily better about your lot in life.

My lot? I have it good- no complaints about the way fortune has smiled upon me. I just see the world in terms a lot softer than FYGM.

Imagine the headset of mega billionaires who'll flog tax cuts out of Repub politicians knowing that they'll deny healthcare to millions of people to give 'em to me. That's a pure power game, huh?
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Obama appointed him to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and then later to the position of Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

I don't readily see how those positions "pale in comparison" etc. Can you explain pls?

Fern

When Flynn was given his last clearance review, in April, 2016, he wasn't being reviewed for those positions. He had already been fired. This was, rather, a routine clearance review for purposes of qualifying him to do consulting work. When he was vetted for those positions years earlier, the two issues which could have disqualified him - taking money from the Russian government for appearing on RT and lobbying for Turkey - hadn't occurred yet. Even as of the time of the April clearance review, the Turkish lobbying hadn't happened yet. That started around July, 2016.

Trump's team didn't vet Flynn at all, claiming they were relying on the prior security clearance. Not only does this make no sense in light of the fact that the clearance wasn't for anything like the job Trump gave Flynn, but the Trump transition team for sure knew about the Turkish lobbying, first, because it was reported in several media articles back then and second, because members of Congress sent the transition team a letter warning them of Flynn's lobbying. Yet they chose to make him NSA anyway.

This was worse than not vetting. They gave him the job knowing that he was lobbying for a foreign government and that he hadn't disclosed this fact.

http://www.businessinsider.com/elij...mike-pence-about-flynn-turkey-lobbying-2017-3

BTW, Pence, who led Trump's transition team, claimed in early March when the media reported that Flynn had finally registered his activities, that this was the first he had heard of Flynn's Turkish lobbying. He lied.

The truth is, Flynn had become Trump's buddy during the campaign, and because of that, Flynn not only went unvetted, but unfavorable information was actually disregarded when they gave him the job. This business about the clearance is a pattern with Trump - always try to blame someone else, and Obama is of course his favorite target.
 
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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
24,218
10,875
136
God this is so f'n stupid. The number one thing that they always ask on a clearance application is if you have any foreign relatives, if you have any foreign financial interests. It's obvious he's in for a felony conviction for lying to the FBI security investigators if he did not put that information on his security application in April. So many people talking shit they no nothing about.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Looks like Napolitano wasn't completely off the mark in his claim.

Fern

How does intercepting communications between foreigners where Trump's name is mentioned have anything to do with Napolitano's claims? Please explain.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
God this is so f'n stupid. The number one thing that they always ask on a clearance application is if you have any foreign relatives, if you have any foreign financial interests. It's obvious he's in for a felony conviction for lying to the FBI security investigators if he did not put that information on his security application in April. So many people talking shit they no nothing about.

The question of Flynn's legal liability is separate from the question of what the clearance review should have turned up, and what Trump-'s transition team should have turned up while vetting Flynn. As I said above, the Turkish lobbying started in summer of last year so the clearance review could not have turned that up. However, the appearance on RT was in December, 2015, and IIRC had been publicly broadcast. The fact that he was paid for it, however, was obviously not public knowledge. Assuming Flynn lied in his clearance application in April, did the people handling the clearance review have an obligation to pursue other sources of information to determine the foreign payments? I don't actually know the answer to that.

What we do know is that for the Turkish lobbying issue, it couldn't have been discovered in April, and Trump's team definitely knew about it in November but chose to disregard it.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,937
9,220
136
I wonder who Jeff Sessions...err...I mean Trump...will nominate to replace Comey.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,694
8,897
146
Obama appointed him to the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and then later to the position of Director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

I don't readily see how those positions "pale in comparison" etc. Can you explain pls?

Edit: Flynn was also a Lt General. My understanding is that is quite high. I was never in the military and am unfamiliar with various security clearances. It would seem his clearances would be much higher than your average.

Fern

Woolfe has pretty much explained it. You are conflating a position Flynn was fired from in 2014 and what he was cleared for now. General security renewals are routine. Done every 5 years. He had not done any of the things he was disqualified for at the time he was with the Obama admin.

Once he was coming into a cabinet position with Trump he should have gone through a far more intrusive vetting. An extreme vetting if you will. People from within Trump's own admin have acknowledge anonymously that no vetting was done.
 
Reactions: jackstar7

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
306
126
Maybe unlike you he's smart enough to know that Democrats are out to screw him and other middle class too, only in a different way than Republicans. You're just in the tank for them because you think they'll go taking money from the rich which will make you feel momentarily better about your lot in life.

Sorry Glenn, but most of the laws that Trump is getting rid of, and most of the changes he is making, are directly in opposition to what the Democrats did. Those laws put in place or removed by the Democrats were good ones in many, many cases. Let's review what he's done.

The lies about the wall - stupid.
Gagging the scientists - stupid.
Managing to make yourself look like you are in bed with the Russians - stupid.
Putting your wife up in a room in the Whitehouse when she doesn't work there and wasn't elected to anything - stupid.
Trying to get rid of Net Neutrality - stupid.
Appointing Betsy Devos - stupid.
Removing the mandatory insurance stipulation and lowering the taxes on the rich - stupid.
Rolling back Frank-Dodd: stupid. Changing the H-1B program - smart.
Raising the defense budget - stupid.
Telling NATO to pay more of their own bills - smart.
Launching the cruise missiles - smart.
Dismantling climate change protections - stupid.
Revoking the law that stocks federal contracts from going to companies that violate labor laws - stupid.
Dropping EPA funding by 30% - stupid.
Dropping education budget 14% - stupid.
Travel ban - stupid.
Announcing a bunch of women's initiatives - hypocritical but the right thing to do.
Revising the Clean Water Rule and Clean Water Act - stupid.
Creating laws to protect law enforcement with additional penalties against those who commit violent crimes against law enforcement - smart.
Reviewing the fiduciary rule that protects Americans' retirement money from conflicts of interest - stupid.
Removing the armed forces from the National Security Council's Principals Committee - stupid.
Telling sanctuary cities to comply with federal law - smart.
Reinstating a global gag rule that bans American non-governmental organizations working abroad from discussing abortion - stupid.
Attempting to replace the ACA with a piece of even more disasterous crap - stupid.

Them's the facts. That's what he's done over his first 100 days. This isn't a Democrat / Republican thing. The guy is making shit decisions that are no good for the country.
 
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Reactions: jackstar7 and lopri
Sep 12, 2004
16,852
59
86
So who's left to stand against Trump & the Repubs if you keep tearing down the dirty Democrats? The tooth fairy?
I'm not asking anyone to stop taking a stand against Trump. I am saying that the left should stop being sanctimonious douches while doing it. Besides, it doesn't take much to tear down Trump. It's really easy. Just stand back and watch him implode. No tooth fairy required.
 
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