Indictments coming...

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soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
I think if some of those indictments are related to Mueller’s investigation he might be waiting for Trump to get back to the US so he won’t say anything stupid while he’s overseas and possibly create some incident.
forgot this
Or even better, he’s waiting for Jared to get back in the country.
 

brandonbull

Diamond Member
May 3, 2005
6,330
1,203
126
no but brandonbull has it all figured out, you see? All this stuff that is actually happening, in the real world, doesn't really mean anything because brandonbull says so. He's so goddamn smart. he should have been in the FBI, because he knows things.

I guess it's fair to say that you should take off your Sherlock Holmes hat as well.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,345
15,156
136
First, it was nowhere near to a 'procedural misstep' and it was not ten years ago. Second, there's no need to tie it to Russian hackers. Here's the appointment letter for Mueller:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...bert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html?_r=0

Here's the part that matters. Mueller is tasked with investigating:

i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation

That means if Mueller finds Russian money laundering from Manafort he can easily then start tracing that money and looking into the finances of the rest of the campaign, Trump included. Easy peasy, no genius required.



Zuckerberg was taking millions of dollars in Russian money and laundering it? As this is an explosive charge can you provide any evidence for this? Also, what indictments would you think appropriate for Facebook?



This is pretty blatant wishful thinking. First, we already have at least one guilty plea for lying to the FBI about contacts between the Russian government and the Trump campaign. We have admitted attempts (after repeated lies) to meet with liaisons of the Russian government for the purposes of getting dirt on Clinton. We also very likely have additional charges to levy against Manafort that are being held back to prevent Trump from pardoning him. News reports say indictments of Trump's national security adviser and his son are coming.

This is just the beginning and it sure looks like it's going to get a lot worse before it's over.


Here is some info for the claim made. It certainly looks like Russia has been making moves for years to get to where we are now.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/world/yuri-milner-facebook-twitter-russia.html
 

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
First, it was nowhere near to a 'procedural misstep' and it was not ten years ago. Second, there's no need to tie it to Russian hackers. Here's the appointment letter for Mueller:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...bert-Mueller-Special-Counsel-Russia.html?_r=0

Here's the part that matters. Mueller is tasked with investigating:

i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and
ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation

That means if Mueller finds Russian money laundering from Manafort he can easily then start tracing that money and looking into the finances of the rest of the campaign, Trump included. Easy peasy, no genius required.



Zuckerberg was taking millions of dollars in Russian money and laundering it? As this is an explosive charge can you provide any evidence for this? Also, what indictments would you think appropriate for Facebook?



This is pretty blatant wishful thinking. First, we already have at least one guilty plea for lying to the FBI about contacts between the Russian government and the Trump campaign. We have admitted attempts (after repeated lies) to meet with liaisons of the Russian government for the purposes of getting dirt on Clinton. We also very likely have additional charges to levy against Manafort that are being held back to prevent Trump from pardoning him. News reports say indictments of Trump's national security adviser and his son are coming.

This is just the beginning and it sure looks like it's going to get a lot worse before it's over.

I think you need to read through this (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/special-counsel-indictments.html) to get the details. I tried to summarize the Manafort indictment and it did start ~10 years ago in 2006 and it is ultimately about tax evasion.

"The opening paragraph of the indictment lays out a narrative framework for understanding the complex details subsequent pages delve into. In brief, prosecutors contend that Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates violated a law that requires Americans to register and disclose activities undertaken as agents of a foreign power, and then that they took steps to launder tens of millions of dollars in income from that work and to evade paying taxes on it."

Zuckerberg is top of the pyramid just like Manafort . They both make broad sweeping decisions but don't actually execute them. It is likely that one of his minions didn't read the procedural steps to enable the legal loop holes to avoid paying tax. However, in the case of Zuckerberg, Ignorance is not innocence and his company allowed election tampering. This is the only viable election tampering claim and its confirmed. For comparison, the Equifax C-levels took the hit for their breach but they didn't deploy/maintain/write the code that enabled the breach.

I am under the belief that if you actually find election tampering you should direct all your energy and effort into that rather than chasing tax evasion that started 10 years ago!
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
looks like we won't be hearing any more statements like Manafort's lawyer gave regarding the current indictments
I think you need to read through this (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/special-counsel-indictments.html) to get the details. I tried to summarize the Manafort indictment and it did start ~10 years ago in 2006 and it is ultimately about tax evasion.

"The opening paragraph of the indictment lays out a narrative framework for understanding the complex details subsequent pages delve into. In brief, prosecutors contend that Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates violated a law that requires Americans to register and disclose activities undertaken as agents of a foreign power, and then that they took steps to launder tens of millions of dollars in income from that work and to evade paying taxes on it."

Zuckerberg is top of the pyramid just like Manafort . They both make broad sweeping decisions but don't actually execute them. It is likely that one of his minions didn't read the procedural steps to enable the legal loop holes to avoid paying tax. However, in the case of Zuckerberg, Ignorance is not innocence and his company allowed election tampering. This is the only viable election tampering claim and its confirmed. For comparison, the Equifax C-levels took the hit for their breach but they didn't deploy/maintain/write the code that enabled the breach.

I am under the belief that if you actually find election tampering you should direct all your energy and effort into that rather than chasing tax evasion that started 10 years ago!

Manafort was in debt to pro-Russian interests just before the election and he offered personal updates regarding the campaign to Russians. this is also just the tip of the iceberg and far more complicated than you are willing or able to understand and accept.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/paul-manafort-russia-trump.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...9bba1a-9d48-11e7-8ea1-ed975285475e_story.html

it is the trump administration's job to protect the US from Russian election tampering, but of course we all know that will never happen because trump can't even admit they did.

it is in all American's best interests for trump to be legally removed from office so the Russian problem can actually be addressed and the core of our democracy protected.
 
Reactions: Younigue

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
Here is some info for the claim made. It certainly looks like Russia has been making moves for years to get to where we are now.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/05/world/yuri-milner-facebook-twitter-russia.html

If anything this supports the idea that Zuckerberg had ties with Russia which might have indirectly given them access to Facebook for the election interference. He might have been ignorant about the puppet masters from Russia using his company but does that mean he less guilty than Manafort? There isn't smoke with the Facebook ads that reached 150 million + and influenced the election. It is a raging fire that brainwashed the American people.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
If anything this supports the idea that Zuckerberg had ties with Russia which might have indirectly given them access to Facebook for the election interference. He might have been ignorant about the puppet masters from Russia using his company but does that mean he less guilty than Manafort? There isn't smoke with the Facebook ads that reached 150 million + and influenced the election. It is a raging fire that brainwashed the American people.

social media clearly needs to be more heavily regulated by the government.

let me guess, you are one of those anti-regulation righties?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,003
18,350
146
why should facebook be to blame for americans being imbeciles?

is this not a free country? is facebook mandatory?
 
Reactions: Younigue

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I think you need to read through this (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/special-counsel-indictments.html) to get the details. I tried to summarize the Manafort indictment and it did start ~10 years ago in 2006 and it is ultimately about tax evasion.

"The opening paragraph of the indictment lays out a narrative framework for understanding the complex details subsequent pages delve into. In brief, prosecutors contend that Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates violated a law that requires Americans to register and disclose activities undertaken as agents of a foreign power, and then that they took steps to launder tens of millions of dollars in income from that work and to evade paying taxes on it."

Zuckerberg is top of the pyramid just like Manafort . They both make broad sweeping decisions but don't actually execute them. It is likely that one of his minions didn't read the procedural steps to enable the legal loop holes to avoid paying tax. However, in the case of Zuckerberg, Ignorance is not innocence and his company allowed election tampering. This is the only viable election tampering claim and its confirmed. For comparison, the Equifax C-levels took the hit for their breach but they didn't deploy/maintain/write the code that enabled the breach.

I am under the belief that if you actually find election tampering you should direct all your energy and effort into that rather than chasing tax evasion that started 10 years ago!

Gawd. There's one very important part you seem to be avoiding. You know, the part where Russian propagandists exerted enormous effort to help Trump get elected. Their efforts cut a broad swath across social media & the internet. Mere fact.

Why would they do that? I doubt they want to MAGA. How does it feel to know that you're on the same Trump team?

Maybe the Russians succeeded in ways you haven't looked at squarely. Maybe they got to you, too.
 
Reactions: Younigue

dyna

Senior member
Oct 20, 2006
813
61
91
social media clearly needs to be more heavily regulated by the government.

let me guess, you are one of those anti-regulation righties?

I just want to see the 3000 ads that were distributed. I want to know what our tax dollars are uncovering. The way that this is trending, we will never find out the truth.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,668
3,067
136
I just want to see the 3000 ads that were distributed. I want to know what our tax dollars are uncovering. The way that this is trending, we will never find out the truth.

we'll see the ads, not that it will make any difference, we already know they were stoking division on both sides. that won't change the fact that we know that Russia favored trump in the election.

i just want to see the traitor in chief impeached.
 
Reactions: Younigue

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,825
49,527
136
I think you need to read through this (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/us/politics/special-counsel-indictments.html) to get the details. I tried to summarize the Manafort indictment and it did start ~10 years ago in 2006 and it is ultimately about tax evasion.

"The opening paragraph of the indictment lays out a narrative framework for understanding the complex details subsequent pages delve into. In brief, prosecutors contend that Mr. Manafort and Mr. Gates violated a law that requires Americans to register and disclose activities undertaken as agents of a foreign power, and then that they took steps to launder tens of millions of dollars in income from that work and to evade paying taxes on it."

Right, it STARTED ten years ago, it was not all from ten years ago. And yes, it is about money laundering and tax evasion. It is also most likely going to be used to roll up Manafort to uncover criminal activity by more senior officials and let’s be honest, there’s probably a lot of that.

More importantly though, it’s clear that Mueller has not charged everything he could on Manafort, most likely to evade NYS double jeopardy rules in case Trump pardons him. There are likely election tampering related charges still in store for him if he doesn’t cooperate.

Zuckerberg is top of the pyramid just like Manafort . They both make broad sweeping decisions but don't actually execute them. It is likely that one of his minions didn't read the procedural steps to enable the legal loop holes to avoid paying tax.

Please provide literally a single shred of evidence that Manafort was unaware of what he was doing. You realize he has lied about this repeatedly, right? There is no logical reason he would lie if he were unaware and you seem to just be making up excuses.

However, in the case of Zuckerberg, Ignorance is not innocence and his company allowed election tampering. This is the only viable election tampering claim and its confirmed. For comparison, the Equifax C-levels took the hit for their breach but they didn't deploy/maintain/write the code that enabled the breach.

So ignorance is innocence for Manafort but not Zuckerberg? What is the legal basis for this? Your Equifax example also makes no sense as that is civil liability, not an indictment.

It is also not even remotely the only viable election tampering claim.

I am under the belief that if you actually find election tampering you should direct all your energy and effort into that rather than chasing tax evasion that started 10 years ago!

They are investigating election tampering. I am under the opinion that when you find out that the president’s campaign manager has been laundering money acquired through services to the party who engaged in election tampering, find that the national security adviser has repeatedly lied about contacts with the Russians, and find that senior campaign staff have repeatedly lied about dealings with Russia you should investigate the entire campaign with all of your energy and effort as it is likely the rot doesn’t end there.

I think we both know it’s likely Trump is dirty as hell.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
looks like we won't be hearing any more statements like Manafort's lawyer gave regarding the current indictments


Manafort was in debt to pro-Russian interests just before the election and he offered personal updates regarding the campaign to Russians. this is also just the tip of the iceberg and far more complicated than you are willing or able to understand and accept.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/19/us/politics/paul-manafort-russia-trump.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...9bba1a-9d48-11e7-8ea1-ed975285475e_story.html

it is the trump administration's job to protect the US from Russian election tampering, but of course we all know that will never happen because trump can't even admit they did.

it is in all American's best interests for trump to be legally removed from office so the Russian problem can actually be addressed and the core of our democracy protected.
Not "can't" admit it. Won't admit it because his freedom is on the line.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
If anything this supports the idea that Zuckerberg had ties with Russia which might have indirectly given them access to Facebook for the election interference. He might have been ignorant about the puppet masters from Russia using his company but does that mean he less guilty than Manafort? There isn't smoke with the Facebook ads that reached 150 million + and influenced the election. It is a raging fire that brainwashed the American people.
Less guilty? Yes. [Unlawfully] Negligent? For sure the Zuck was.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
we'll see the ads, not that it will make any difference, we already know they were stoking division on both sides. that won't change the fact that we know that Russia favored trump in the election.

i just want to see the traitor in chief impeached.

It's just another talking point diversion. Trumpsters don't even want to consider the idea that they might be chumpsters for one of the most audacious, unexpected & effective propaganda efforts in history. It was brilliantly conceived & executed. Trumpsters got played, hard & they're still getting played.
 
Reactions: TeeJay1952

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Less guilty? Yes. [Unlawfully] Negligent? For sure the Zuck was.

Don't buy in to the bullshit, OK? You're going with 20/20 hindsight. The way that the Russians went about this was totally new & unexpected. There has never been anything quite like it. It was and still is an astounding tour de force in the art of propaganda, utterly brilliant beyond compare.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,634
8,778
146
I posted a week or so ago about Flynn being in the crosshairs and possibly dealing to save his son. More info has now come out.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/11/08/...ecial-counsel-russia-investigation/index.html

(CNN)Former White House national security adviser Michael Flynn has expressed concern about the potential legal exposure of his son, Michael Flynn Jr., who, like his father, is under scrutiny by special counsel Robert Mueller, multiple sources familiar with the matter tell CNN.

Flynn's concern could factor into decisions about how to respond to Mueller's ongoing investigation. The special counsel is looking into Russian meddling in the 2016 campaign as well as the business dealings of key campaign advisers to President Donald Trump.

Flynn's wife, Lori, shares his concerns about their son's possible legal exposure, according to a person who knows the family.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
It's just another talking point diversion. Trumpsters don't even want to consider the idea that they might be chumpsters for one of the most audacious, unexpected & effective propaganda efforts in history. It was brilliantly conceived & executed. Trumpsters got played, hard & they're still getting played.
Though there are far too many of them turning pro-Russia/pro-Putin. Justifiable if that's what it took/takes to make liberals cry.
 
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