info: Dell 2209WA review

[yh125d]

Please tell me theres a 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 coming soon?

 

[xtknight]

I think eIPS is a very viable alternative to S-IPS. (And, certainly, of course, to TN.) Go for an eIPS over a TN any day. I'm meaning to recommend the 2209WA very soon, I just wanted to see some user reviews of it and also wanted some time to look at them.

I'm guessing eIPS is S-IPS with lower bit depth (expect dithering). It might even be single domain instead of the traditional double domain IPS. But I haven't been able to find any academic articles on it yet. You'd be most likely to find more info somewhere here: http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/d...p?KEY=JSIDE8&Volume=16

I wouldn't expect miracles but again, if it's between a TN and an eIPS, your choice is easy. I'm hoping to pick one of these up for myself so I can review it and to complement my L227. But we'll have to see about that. The holidays are pretty far away.

 

[allies]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I think eIPS is a very viable alternative to S-IPS. (And, certainly, of course, to TN.) Go for an eIPS over a TN any day. I'm meaning to recommend the 2209WA very soon, I just wanted to see some user reviews of it and also wanted some time to look at them.

I'm guessing eIPS is S-IPS with lower bit depth (expect dithering). It might even be single domain instead of the traditional double domain IPS. But I haven't been able to find any academic articles on it yet. You'd be most likely to find more info somewhere here: http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/d...p?KEY=JSIDE8&Volume=16

I wouldn't expect miracles but again, if it's between a TN and an eIPS, your choice is easy. I'm hoping to pick one of these up for myself so I can review it and to complement my L227. But we'll have to see about that. The holidays are pretty far away.

Valentine's day is just around the corner:heart:

 

[imported_chewy2314]

Well, there's no pink shift. Pic

2209WA on the left and 2005FPW on the right

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: yh125d
Please tell me theres a 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 coming soon?

Very soon

 

[Winterpool]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I think eIPS is a very viable alternative to S-IPS. (And, certainly, of course, to TN.) Go for an eIPS over a TN any day. I'm meaning to recommend the 2209WA very soon, I just wanted to see some user reviews of it and also wanted some time to look at them.

I'm guessing eIPS is S-IPS with lower bit depth (expect dithering). It might even be single domain instead of the traditional double domain IPS. But I haven't been able to find any academic articles on it yet. You'd be most likely to find more info somewhere here: http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/d...p?KEY=JSIDE8&Volume=16

I wouldn't expect miracles but again, if it's between a TN and an eIPS, your choice is easy. I'm hoping to pick one of these up for myself so I can review it and to complement my L227. But we'll have to see about that. The holidays are pretty far away.

Mmm, there's some dispute on the Hard|forum whether the 2209WA is only 6-bit. Ugh.

Clearly e-IPS is superior to TN, but I suppose the question is -- is it better than PVA? I'd be willing to pay a little more for a good 8-bit PVA (gaming is not an issue for me) in the 22-24 inches range if e-IPS turns out to have been too good to be true.

Or just keep saving up for an Apple or NEC display.

 

[whysoserious]

Hello everyone! First post

I've been planning to buy a new display, and thought one of those 1080p 24" TNs looked pretty good. Usage will be primarily watching movies and gaming, so I bought a GTX 285 to be able to play at that resolution. Now I'm confused as to go ahead with the original plan and get a 24" TN, or buy this new eIPS 22" display. What would you guys recommend? A bigger screen with bad viewing angles and a fast input lag/response time or a smaller screen with better viewing angles/better colors and greater input lag/response time? I am shifting from a 17" CRT, and I have no idea as to how much viewing angles will come into play on a 24" TN. Neither do I know how much of a difference the higher input lag of the eIPS display will affect gaming. I will also be watching HD movies on my display, which is leading to the confusion (the TN panel seems to be better for fast paced games, while the eIPS seems to be better for HD content). Decisions, decisions

I will say though, I'm not a highly competitive gamer or anything, but would probably not want "ghosting" or any such weird issues while playing. Neither am I really anal about image quality, just a casual movie watcher/gamer.

I think us "casual" folk have the hardest decision to make. If you are a hardcore gamer, you wouldn't think twice before buying a faster and bigger TN display. If you are an IQ freak on a budget, the 22" eIPS looks great.

Or do you recommend saving my money and waiting for a 24" 1080p eIPS display? I don't want to wait too long for buying it though.

Fairly long post, but I am a confused buyer right now. Would appreciate any help you guys could provide.

 

[Winterpool]

Well, anything must be an improvement on an old 17-inch CRT (unless it's a Trinitron...). Others here can speak with more authority about gaming, but IPS panels are generally 'fast enough', even if they're not TN speedy. Which is why I'd recommend going with an IPS panel if you can afford it.

As to the Dell 2209WA (and e-IPS panels), well, the results are just starting to come in. I strongly recommend you read the last few pages of the Hard|forum discussion, as the early buyers are now getting their monitors and reporting their observations.

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: whysoserious
Hello everyone! First post

I will also be watching HD movies on my display, which is leading to the confusion (the TN panel seems to be better for fast paced games, while the eIPS seems to be better for HD content). Decisions, decisions

I think us "casual" folk have the hardest decision to make. If you are a hardcore gamer, you wouldn't think twice before buying a faster and bigger TN display. If you are an IQ freak on a budget, the 22" eIPS looks great.

Or do you recommend saving my money and waiting for a 24" 1080p eIPS display? I don't want to wait too long for buying it though.

Well, keep in mind a 22" monitor is only 1680 x 1050 resolution, which isn't true HD. For that, you'll need a 1080p monitor or a 24" 16:10 aspect that can push 1920 x 1200 resolution. If you hadn't bought the GTX 285 and were using a lesser card, it might make your decision easier. But since you have, I'd say go for one of the better TNs -- like the BenQ G2400WD or V2400W, LG 2452T-TF, or Asus VW266H.

I'm not a fan of 1080p for computer monitors FYI, although some people here love them. That said, LG recently unveiled a 23" 1080p eIPS panel which should be coming to market soon (see my post 4 frames above). This might work for you.

If you have $600, there's always the highly rated HP LP2475w

 

[yh125d]

Any idea what the street price on that LG will be?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Winterpool

Originally posted by: xtknight
I think eIPS is a very viable alternative to S-IPS. (And, certainly, of course, to TN.) Go for an eIPS over a TN any day. I'm meaning to recommend the 2209WA very soon, I just wanted to see some user reviews of it and also wanted some time to look at them.

I'm guessing eIPS is S-IPS with lower bit depth (expect dithering). It might even be single domain instead of the traditional double domain IPS. But I haven't been able to find any academic articles on it yet. You'd be most likely to find more info somewhere here: http://scitation.aip.org/dbt/d...p?KEY=JSIDE8&Volume=16

I wouldn't expect miracles but again, if it's between a TN and an eIPS, your choice is easy. I'm hoping to pick one of these up for myself so I can review it and to complement my L227. But we'll have to see about that. The holidays are pretty far away.

Mmm, there's some dispute on the Hard|forum whether the 2209WA is only 6-bit. Ugh.

Clearly e-IPS is superior to TN, but I suppose the question is -- is it better than PVA? I'd be willing to pay a little more for a good 8-bit PVA (gaming is not an issue for me) in the 22-24 inches range if e-IPS turns out to have been too good to be true.

Or just keep saving up for an Apple or NEC display.

Few displays are really 8-bit.

Most PVA/IPS are 6-bit, as far as I know. Without a knowledge of what 6-bit or 8-bit DAC really "is", we can never know for sure. I do know a lot of PVA/IPS panels still exhibit temporal dithering (dithering over time = FRC), spatial (dithering over space = patterned), or a combination of these.

If you're lucky you get a panel with a high quality DAC (which probably has higher resolution than 8-bit in reality) and we call that "true 8-bit". Which displays have the higher quality DAC type, who knows?

This sums it up well: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

The LCD2690 has dithering in darker tones, but it also has an 8-bit driver. It has effective 10+ bits. (Empirically speaking and based on my tests of it...) So would you say that's inferior to something that only has 8 effective bits with no dithering at all? I'd say the dithering is helpful here.

 

[imported_chewy2314]

Originally posted by: Winterpool

Mmm, there's some dispute on the Hard|forum whether the 2209WA is only 6-bit. Ugh.

Clearly e-IPS is superior to TN, but I suppose the question is -- is it better than PVA? I'd be willing to pay a little more for a good 8-bit PVA (gaming is not an issue for me) in the 22-24 inches range if e-IPS turns out to have been too good to be true.

Or just keep saving up for an Apple or NEC display.

After comparing the 2209WA to 2007FPW, my opinion is that it's an 8-bit panel. I've seen horrible dithering on the HP w2408h with 6-bit LG TN panel.

Images on the 2209WA and 2007FPW are almost identical (at least to my eye).

 

[Winterpool]

Chewy, according to XTKnight, the 2007WFP may have been 6-bit.

XTKnight, is there a page where we can find an accurate list of 6-bit and 8-bit displays -- at least the most popular ones? I was considering the Dell 2408WFP as my 'can't afford NEC IPS' option -- which I think is 8-bit PVA. Though it has its own problems...

Is it better to ignore 'bitness' altogether when evaluating and selecting displays? Your comments and the Lagom page suggest identifying bitness may be a red herring. I abhor most dithering when it's noticeable; on the other hand the almost infamously 6-bit display in my MacBook Pro yields better-looking photographs than many desktop LCDs (admittedly not first-rank displays). I'm not particularly pleased with the colour gradient on my 1905FP, and I'm fairly sure its Samsung PVA panel is 6-bit. [sigh]

Edited: given the extremely low price, quality control is my most serious concern with e-IPS displays, particularly the <$300 2209WA. It seems, however, that most of the Hard|Forum users have been receiving decent samples so far.

Further edited: okay, it looks like they got at least one with backlight bleeding, and R0ach isn't happy with his colours. Things are getting a bit ugly on the Hard|Forum thread, which is one of the reasons I try to stay away from there, though they do tend to have fairly long display-discussion threads.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Winterpool
Chewy, according to XTKnight, the 2007WFP may have been 6-bit.

XTKnight, is there a page where we can find an accurate list of 6-bit and 8-bit displays -- at least the most popular ones? I was considering the Dell 2408WFP as my 'can't afford NEC IPS' option -- which I think is 8-bit PVA. Though it has its own problems...

Is it better to ignore 'bitness' altogether when evaluating and selecting displays? Your comments and the Lagom page suggest identifying bitness may be a red herring. I abhor most dithering when it's noticeable; on the other hand the almost infamously 6-bit display in my MacBook Pro yields better-looking photographs than many desktop LCDs (admittedly not first-rank displays). I'm not particularly pleased with the colour gradient on my 1905FP, and I'm fairly sure its Samsung PVA panel is 6-bit. [sigh]

Yeah, I mean dithering can look pretty ugly. But how often do you have big solid blocks of dark colors on your screen that you actually need to be looking at closely? If you actually do anything with your screen expect look at test pictures, chances are it won't ever bother you. (Now that wasn't true with older dithering which was far more conspicuous.)

My advice to is to ignore bitness. And regardless of what bitness eIPS is, it'll very likely be better than TN. TNs have less color depth primarily because of their bad viewing angle properties, not because of bad dithering. And as I describe in the post I made in the LCD Thread very recently, dithering is there to help, not hurt you. It will make visibility actually easier.

The bottom line remains. If you want the best photo editing performance, then get a high-end IPS panel that's 8-bit with a 12-bit gamma curve for nice dark tones performance. Back to the consumer sector: if you want panels that are higher quality than the TN and PVA stuff that's out there, eIPS may be your ticket.

Edited: given the extremely low price, quality control is my most serious concern with e-IPS displays, particularly the <$300 2209WA. It seems, however, that most of the Hard|Forum users have been receiving decent samples so far.

Further edited: okay, it looks like they got at least one with backlight bleeding, and R0ach isn't happy with his colours. Things are getting a bit ugly on the Hard|Forum thread, which is one of the reasons I try to stay away from there, though they do tend to have fairly long display-discussion threads.

I actually find HardForum quite useful. It probably has bad colors because it's a <=$300 Dell, not because it's an eIPS. Hopefully after calibration things are more acceptable.

 

[imported_chewy2314]

Originally posted by: Winterpool
Chewy, according to XTKnight, the 2007WFP may have been 6-bit.

Are you sure? i thought all S-IPS were 8bit. Almost all google of 2007FPW yielded that the monitor contained an 8-bit panel (assuming you got the S-IPS).

 

[Winterpool]

If you read the aforementioned page on the main LCD thread, as well as the dialogue between XTKnight and myself above, you may get the impression that 'bitness' isn't a cut-and-dried feature (at least that's what I gathered). It gets a bit involved, and, as XTKnight suggests, may actually be a distraction from the factors that will really matter to your (ultimately subjective) experience of the display.

Which is to say, we shouldn't write off the 2209WA (or any other forthcoming e-IPS display) because it isn't 'true 8-bit'. Anyhow, if I recall correctly from the Hard|Forum thread, you've already got yourself one of these, right? How do you feel about this display overall?

 

[Winterpool]

By the way, for anyone still reading this thread yet not reading Hard|Forum, a punter there learnt that Dell may be introducing 23 to 24-inch e-IPS displays in the spring. Personally I've elected to wait and hope for a 1920x1200 e-IPS display, though I know we'll probably get 1920x1080. I suppose I could live with that.

Edited: a poor fellow appears to have got one with a slice torn out. Hurrah for Dell quality control!

 

[gorobei]

has anyone done any input lag time testing? (the clock one on lagom)
i'll probably wait for the LG 23" 1920x1080, but i'm curious if this eIPS is good enough for gaming.

 

[faxon]

crap, and i just got a $280 LG w2252tq about christmas! this would have been a combo breaker for me if it had been out then /sadface

 

[napes22]

Has anyone received theirs yet? What are your impressions?

I want to buy one and upgrade from my 2005WFP but want to make sure that it's worth it (or run it side by side with my 2005WFP...potentially buy two at $200).

Outside of the obvious difference in size, would the 2209WA be much of an improvement over the 2005WFP?

 

[Reckoner]

Originally posted by: napes22
Has anyone received theirs yet? What are your impressions?

I want to buy one and upgrade from my 2005WFP but want to make sure that it's worth it (or run it side by side with my 2005WFP...potentially buy two at $200).

Outside of the obvious difference in size, would the 2209WA be much of an improvement over the 2005WFP?

I'm wondering the same, although mine is a 2007wfp pva panel

 

[ZetaEpyon]

Check the main LCD thread, a few of us have posted impressions, and 10e posted a pretty good review.

 

[imported_chewy2314]

I have compared it to both the 2005fpw and 2007fpw (S-IPS). Is it worth the upgrade? It depends. If you feel 2 extra inches at the same resolution is needed (tired, older eyes) and do not use the other inputs, then go for it. Otherwise, I'd wait for the higher resolution panel. Not to say that I didn't go for it! All of my personal photos look great on it, unlike the horrible w2408h with LG TN panel that I tried. L4D looks great. Not sure about input lag since i've been gaming on an LCD for quite some time.

edit: one thing is that one 2209WA has a slight buzz at lower brightness. Not noticeable until my ear is about 3-4 inches away. The 2005fpw and 2007fpw on my desk does not do this. I have 2 more 2209WA coming, so i'll check those out for the buzzing.

 

[imported_chewy2314]

Originally posted by: Winterpool
[snip] Anyhow, if I recall correctly from the Hard|Forum thread, you've already got yourself one of these, right? How do you feel about this display overall?

Yes, i've been on Hardforums from early on....

I like the display. Of course, i'm coming from the 20" IPS and the image quality is the same (that is.. to my eyes) and the same resolution. I'm not a pro graphics person looking to calibrate perfectly, but all my home photos look natural and sharp. I would have said "love it" if this was the 23", higher resolution and at a similarily discounted price!

I've tried out the HP w2408h "debranded" with the LG TN panel and I hated it.

BTW, someone posted a link to a chinese site that took the monitor apart. I believe they are saying it's 8-bit capable.

 

[Avalon]

Managed to scoop one up for $213 shipped + tax by sweet talking a Dell live chat sales rep
Will hopefully take pictures and let you guys know how it is.