Install Linux on an old laptop

sheemone00

Senior member
Sep 17, 2003
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0
0
I am getting interested in installing a distro of Linux on my Dell laptop (1.6 Ghz, 1.25 GB RAM) and I was wondering if some of you guys can give me some of your experiences with it.

I was looking to install OpenSUSE 11.1 KDE4 (GNOME had some issues with coming out of suspend mode when I tried the live CD) or Ubuntu (maybe Xubuntu for faster DE?).


So some questions:

1. How does power consumption compare on these Linux OSes compared to WinXP?

Right now I run Rightmark tool to undervolt my laptop and get about 4 hours of battery life.

I saw that undervolting is possible on Linux also. Is it comparable to what Rightmark does for WinXP?

2. Which of the 3 OS would be the snappiest?

3. What is your overall experience of OpenSUSE/Ubuntu vs WinXP?
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,985
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You're not getting much in the way of response, so you're stuck with me :^P

I pretty much use Ubuntu exclusively on my laptops, and secondary machines. I use Puppy on very old computers, but I think yours is new enough to run Ubuntu pretty well. I've tried several distros(including OpenSuse), and I don't like them as well as Ubuntu. I also prefer the Gnome desktop to KDE, but that's personal preference. I've heard Linux doesn't do as well on power savings, but I suspect that varies depending on the specific hardware. I almost always have my laptops plugged in, so I don't have empirical data of which is better between Linux and XP regarding power use. If Rightmark doesn't have a Linux client, I'd say you're out of luck with that specific app. There are power utilities made for Linux, but I don't know the names off hand. Google should be able to help you there.

Summary...

1. I don't know. You'll have to experimant yourself

2. Of the 3 you listed, I think Xubuntu would be the quickest. For maximum speed + features give Puppy a try.

3. XP is getting very dated at this point, and I think Ubuntu gives a nice desktop experience, while being about the same speed as XP. It may be slightly slower/faster, but it's close, and is more modern with some nice features. My favorite O/S is Vista, but I'd take Ubuntu instead of XP or Win7 any day :^)
 

Kalmah

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2003
3,692
1
76
I've ran windows xp, ubuntu 8.04, 9.04 and kubuntu on my celeron 756mb ram laptop. (This thing is over 6 years old.. I honestly don't remember the specs just that add I added ram recently to put it at 756)

Here they are in order of speed for me. *fastest to slowest

ubuntu 9.04 (might want to use the ext4 file system, suppose to be even faster. using ext3 myself though.. still some bugs in ext4 that I wanted to steer away from)

Windows xp

ubuntu 8.04

Kubuntu (I found this to be extremely flaky on my laptop. The visuals are freakin nice but it's too slow for this)

I havn't used xubuntu.. I was going to try it but the new 9.04 ubuntu runs fantastic as it is. (try the 'Dusk' desktop theme.. it's very nice)




 

VinDSL

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2006
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www.lenon.com
Originally posted by: lxskllr
I pretty much use Ubuntu exclusively on my laptops, and secondary machines. I use Puppy on very old computers, but I think yours is new enough to run Ubuntu pretty well. I've tried several distros(including OpenSuse), and I don't like them as well as Ubuntu. I also prefer the Gnome desktop to KDE, but that's personal preference. I've heard Linux doesn't do as well on power savings, but I suspect that varies depending on the specific hardware. I almost always have my laptops plugged in, so I don't have empirical data of which is better between Linux and XP regarding power use[...]
OMG!!! You must be my missing brother!

I could have very easily written it [the above] myself. We share an (essentially) common view. Amazing!

Where 'we' differ (slightly) is...

I currently run Linux Mint 7 (Ubuntu 9.04 with lipstick) on my laptop (multi-booted with Vista & Solaris) and netbook (dual-booted with XP) - Ubuntu on secondary machines (additional OSs in VM - W2K Pro, FreeBSD, et cetera) - and Linux Puppy on doorstops.

Linux Mint on MY lappy/netty (hardware) is just as easy on power as Windows (et al). I can't say that with other distros I've tried, including SuSE 11.x KDE.

The only 'problem' with Linux Mint on battery power (depending on how you have it configured) is the back-light on the display is very, very, dark! The lappy/netty displays (Mint 7 on battery power) still have suitable contrast and are 100% readable and usable, but they're shockingly dark (with the displays set to dim) and it takes a little getting used to...

Of course, you can turn this dimming feature off... but the whole reason for it is to save your battery - and THAT it does! Plus, it keeps ppl from reading over your shoulder - an ancillary benefit...

LoL!

As I am typing this reply (in a pop-up window) I glanced down at the forum and see somebody already discovered Linux Mint, and mentioned it (from a fellow n00bs perspective too - which is better than me pimping Mint 7) sooo... that'll do.

I guess I'll stop typing now.
 

VinDSL

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2006
4,869
1
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www.lenon.com
Originally posted by: sheemone00
3. What is your overall experience of OpenSUSE/Ubuntu vs WinXP?
Hrm...

Well, here's one for you, that you (probably) won't 'hear' elsewhere:

Windows uses a 'shotgun' approach with hardware drivers. One of the reasons Linux (on the desktop) is finally getting popular is because the Linux devs are doing the same thing as Windows devs. As a result, the Linux kernel is becoming Windows-like, e.g. fat and bloated. But, that's okay, because it's letting n00bs get their foot in the door, you know? Besides, the processing power of computers is doubling every year, so bloat really isn't an issue these days - except on older machines.

The thing is...

After a while, you're going to start realizing that (say) your display is flickering when you're watching videos, or playing Flash games online - because your lappy is using generic Mesa drivers, or whatever. You're inclination will be to blame it on Linux, but the fact of the matter is, it's because YOU haven't compiled custom drivers for YOUR hardware.

The 'fix' is to compile a custom display driver set, specifically made for your machine!

LoL! Try that with Windows...

This 'compiling' stuff is when things will get interesting for you - and if you're successful - you'll find out why Linux shines compared to Windows. Your lappy display will look so good and work so great, you'll get a woody, and want to tell the whole world how smart you are - and how great Linux is - just like us Linux Hippies.

Conversely (and more likely) you'll botch your first few attempts at compiling drivers - and you'll brick your install. At that point, you're gonna *feel* dumber than dogshit and wonder why you're putting yourself through all this Linux bullshit. After all... Hell, XP never did that!!!

Anyway, give Linux a fair trial - use it for a year or so. Pretty soon it will be as second-nature as shaving, and brushing your teeth. And, at that point, Windows will become irrelevant... guaranteed!
 

Gamingphreek

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
11,679
0
81
Windows uses a 'shotgun' approach with hardware drivers. One of the reasons Linux (on the desktop) is finally getting popular is because the Linux devs are doing the same thing as Windows devs. As a result, the Linux kernel is becoming Windows-like, e.g. fat and bloated. But, that's okay, because it's letting n00bs get their foot in the door, you know? Besides, the processing power of computers is doubling every year, so bloat really isn't an issue these days - except on older machines.

The thing is...

After a while, you're going to start realizing that (say) your display is flickering when you're watching videos, or playing Flash games online - because your lappy is using generic Mesa drivers, or whatever. You're inclination will be to blame it on Linux, but the fact of the matter is, it's because YOU haven't compiled custom drivers for YOUR hardware.

The 'fix' is to compile a custom display driver set, specifically made for your machine!

Ummmm.... what?

The kernel isn't getting fat and bloated to my knowledge . Video drivers were moved into Kernel-Space memory wise, but other than that I don't have any clue what you are talking about...

There should be absolutely no reason to compile your drivers from source. Sure you MAY get better results if you apply very specific optimizations unique to your system during compilation, but other than that, once again.... what are you talking about?

---------------------------

OP, given the system specs, you probably want to stay away from a KDE base Desktop - it typically demands the most memory and processor cycles.

XFCE or Gnome will be your best bet.

As for the LiveCD not working with suspend-- thats typically just a bad idea in general. I would install Ubuntu 9.04 and grab all the available updates. I assume you are running Intel based graphics on that Dell - thus enabling the Xorg-Edgers repo as well as installing the latest Kernel will be highly beneficial.

I would imagine that power management if configured properly is worlds ahead of Windows XP. Honestly, XP should not be the bench mark - its 6 years old for crying out loud.

Undervolting is unnecessary in my opinion. Recent OS's and processors do a well enough job managing their sleep states as it is. Further undervolting - especially on a laptop - just isn't wise.

Windows XP, given that it is, BY FAR, the oldest of the 3 OS's will, of course, be the snappiest. If you're going by that though, you might as well install Windows 3.1 .

Honestly, I would stay away from XP like the plague for many reasons.

OpenSUSE is a very nicely put together OS; however, I found that the package manager and repositories are immature. Often times to get anywhere (MP3 codecs for instance) you have to compile and run from source (Perhaps this has changed since I last used it). While this gives a pretty cool look at how an OS works, it can be tedious. Additionally, as I said earlier, KDE tends to be sluggish compred to the other counterparts.

Ubuntu 9.04 out of the box (on Intel and ATI graphics hardware) is quite a horrid mess. It honestly should not have been released the way it was!

That said, after you apply the most recent kernel and updates, 9.04 is quite possibly one of the best Linux distros I have ever used. Everything just plain works! Even on my 64bit machine with 4GB of RAM, I am only using ~11% of my available memory (Very remarkable for a 64bit OS).

On my Core 2 Duo based T61 laptop I typically draw around 18-19 Watts average.

-Kevin
 

sheemone00

Senior member
Sep 17, 2003
209
0
0
Thanks for all the replies!

I guess I should have mentioned that I have used Ubuntu before and that I do have some experience with Linux.

I actually installed it on one of my other laptops about a year ago, but I had some issues with the power management (coming out of sleep/suspend) and was too lazy to try to find a fix for it and installed XP on it.

But I'm willing to give it a try again so that's why I asked the question.

-------------------------------------------------------
Few other notes since my last post:

I took note of the resources taken up between OpenSUSE and Ubuntu and eeps... OpenSUSE (KDE) took up 600 MB RAM while Ubuntu only took up (150 MB) or so.

Also I have a nVidia graphics card in the laptop.



I did some more research and people also seem to love Gentoo, but I might stick with Ubuntu for the ease of use and configurations.

I think I will try to install Xubuntu this weekend and see how that goes. Hopefully all the drivers will work after the updates... if not... here I go compiling custom drivers!
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
Well, here's one for you, that you (probably) won't 'hear' elsewhere:

Probably because it's completely nonsensical. I don't have a clue what your term "shotgun approach" even means with regards to drivers in either OS.

The thing is...

After a while, you're going to start realizing that (say) your display is flickering when you're watching videos, or playing Flash games online - because your lappy is using generic Mesa drivers, or whatever. You're inclination will be to blame it on Linux, but the fact of the matter is, it's because YOU haven't compiled custom drivers for YOUR hardware.

The 'fix' is to compile a custom display driver set, specifically made for your machine!

Videos and flash never touch Mesa because that's for OpenGL. Videos generally display via hardware accelerated Xv and fall back to X11 shared memory. Nor should you need to compile anything these days in either case.
 

KeypoX

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2003
3,655
0
71
1. It seems power usage is getting better, ubuntu 9.10 alpha. But its still not as good as win 7. Dunno about xp its been a while.

2. I find ubuntu to work better than opensusu and have not liked kde at all.
3. ubuntu vs xp, comparable.


you may want to wait till 9.10 is released, or try alpha . It has some intel graphics upgrades too. Ubuntu 9.04 was horrible with intel graphics. Not sure what graphic you have though??? Prob something very old lol. Might want to check out performance of that first.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: Kalmah
I've ran windows xp, ubuntu 8.04, 9.04 and kubuntu on my celeron 756mb ram laptop. (This thing is over 6 years old.. I honestly don't remember the specs just that add I added ram recently to put it at 756)

Here they are in order of speed for me. *fastest to slowest

ubuntu 9.04 (might want to use the ext4 file system, suppose to be even faster. using ext3 myself though.. still some bugs in ext4 that I wanted to steer away from)

Windows xp

ubuntu 8.04

Kubuntu (I found this to be extremely flaky on my laptop. The visuals are freakin nice but it's too slow for this)

I havn't used xubuntu.. I was going to try it but the new 9.04 ubuntu runs fantastic as it is. (try the 'Dusk' desktop theme.. it's very nice)

I had a few little issues with OpenSuse,ie would not remember my res setting(1920x1080) so was annoying to keep setting it after each bootup,Kubuntu with latest patches etc and newest KDE version (4.3.1) I have running sweet so can't really complain even on speed,I'm looking forward to 9.10 version.

Linux Mint is very nice since it has everything you more or less need for a beginner,Ubuntu well I hate the layout and colour(you are either Gnome or KDE fan).
I have heard good things about PC Linux 2009 too,the great thing about Linux is you are spoilt for free choices so sooner or later you find the right one .


KarmicKoala Alpha6 Kubuntu is looking good,hope 9.10 lives up to my expectations.
 

VinDSL

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2006
4,869
1
81
www.lenon.com
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
[T]he Linux kernel is becoming Windows-like, e.g. fat and bloated[...] ~VinDSL

Ummmm.... what?

The kernel isn't getting fat and bloated to my knowledge .
LoL!

How about confirmation, directly from from Linus Torvalds?!?!?

SOURCE: http://www.crn.com/software/220100662 (Channel Web - Torvalds Calls Linux Kernel 'Huge And Bloated')


The Linux kernel is getting too big too fast, and that's negatively affecting Linux performance. While this might sound like a message from Microsoft's marketing team, it's actually a frank admission that Linus Torvalds made Monday in a roundtable discussion at the LinuxCon event in Portland, Ore[...]

"The kernel is huge and bloated, and our icache footprint is scary. I mean, there is no question about that. And whenever we add a new feature it only gets worse," Torvalds said at the event, as reported by The Register.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: VinDSL
Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
[T]he Linux kernel is becoming Windows-like, e.g. fat and bloated[...] ~VinDSL

Ummmm.... what?

The kernel isn't getting fat and bloated to my knowledge .
LoL!

How about confirmation, directly from from Linus Torvalds?!?!?

SOURCE: http://www.crn.com/software/220100662 (Channel Web - Torvalds Calls Linux Kernel 'Huge And Bloated')


The Linux kernel is getting too big too fast, and that's negatively affecting Linux performance. While this might sound like a message from Microsoft's marketing team, it's actually a frank admission that Linus Torvalds made Monday in a roundtable discussion at the LinuxCon event in Portland, Ore[...]

"The kernel is huge and bloated, and our icache footprint is scary. I mean, there is no question about that. And whenever we add a new feature it only gets worse," Torvalds said at the event, as reported by The Register.

Don't forget end bit ,

"As Linux gets more popular, people are doing more with it, and that means more code. It has got slower, but you don't hear people saying it's too slow. Besides, hardware doubles in performance every year," Golden said.


Yep hardware keeps improving so software can take advantage of the improved performance or is that the other way round .
 

VinDSL

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2006
4,869
1
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www.lenon.com
Originally posted by: Nothinman
Nor should you need to compile anything these days[...]
In a perfect world...


Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ubuntu 9.04 out of the box (on Intel and ATI graphics hardware) is quite a horrid mess. It honestly should not have been released the way it was[...]
Truth!

Linux Mint 7 (Ubuntu 9.04 based), on my Asus Eee PC 1000HD netbook (Intel graphic chipset), was practically unusable because of severe screen flickering. It was so bad, I thought my netty was defective - but the display worked perfectly with XP.

The problem turned out to be the 'open sores' wireless drivers - not the video drivers - really! Who would have 'thunk' it possible? Any time I had network activity, the display would go wonky! Replacing the open source wireless drivers with MadWiFi drivers and compiling from source took care of the flickering. The display is 100% gorgeous now!

My Toshy A215 laptop (ATI graphic chipset) suffered from mild screen flickering - just enough to make me wish I hadn't switched from Mint 6 (Ubuntu 8.10) to Mint 7 (Ubuntu 9.04)...

This turned out to be a little more problematic - beyond the pale of this conversation - but I fixed it by downloading some Radeon drivers and compiling from source. Let's just leave it at that.

Anyway, the larger point is...

There's only so much you can do with Windows - it is what it is - and that's it. You're either stuck with whatever mundane, generic driver(s) Microsoft dishes out, or at the mercy of some bullshit third-party vendor who's always gonna fix some problem in the next release.

With Linux - if you don't mind getting down n' dirty - you can almost always come up with something better than what's available in the Windows Community!


Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
There should be absolutely no reason to compile your drivers from source. Sure you MAY get better results if you apply very specific optimizations unique to your system during compilation, but other than that, once again[...]
Thank you!

I couldn't have said it better myself... :beer:
 

VinDSL

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2006
4,869
1
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www.lenon.com
Originally posted by: Nothinman
I don't have a clue what your term "shotgun approach" even means with regards to drivers in either OS[...]
Sigh... Let me put it this way. :disgust:

When it comes to drivers, Microsoft uses a "shotgun approach". They throw anything and everything at an OS, whether or not you need it, just to play it safe - Vista (original release) being the exception. Think bloat!

Linux uses a "surgical strike" - especially when it comes to lappy drivers - which are rather spartan. For best results, expect to 'roll your own'...

I'm too lazy to give you a deeper context (and fodder for an argument). Read between the lines... or better yet, Google it, like you do everything else!
 

Nothinman

Elite Member
Sep 14, 2001
30,672
0
0
In a perfect world...

I guess I should take that back, I do have to recompile the VMware modules occasionally. However, that's handled by their script so it's not difficult. And even in this not-so-perfect world there's module-assistant for things like the nvidia module.

I couldn't have said it better myself...

Execept that it's wrong, optimizations have nothing to do with it. You fixed a problem by switching drivers, not optimizing anything.

When it comes to drivers, Microsoft uses a "shotgun approach". They throw anything and everything at an OS, whether or not you need it, just to play it safe - Vista (original release) being the exception. Think bloat!

Except that it's completely wrong with regards to drivers. MS only includes drivers submited for inclusion by the manufacturers. If you're talking about the software bundled with the drivers that's also the manufacturer's fault and that stuff's not usually included with the OS, just with the downloads from the manufacturer's site.

I'm too lazy to give you a deeper context (and fodder for an argument). Read between the lines... or better yet, Google it, like you do everything else!

If you can't type what you mean, why bother?
 

KeypoX

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2003
3,655
0
71
give dual boot a try. IF you like it then your set if you dont then no harm. Except wasted time... if you dont like.

As long as you can cover all your app needs and battery life isnt to bad for you, you should be happy. I would go with ubuntu, yes the brown color is ugly but its simple to change. And if you wanna install kde desktop environment you can do that with ubuntu. And choice to boot into gnome or kde. I think i disklike kde because its so confusing. Gnome is much like windows kde is something else lol.

Also with ubuntu the ubuntu forums are great for help and info.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: KeypoX
give dual boot a try. IF you like it then your set if you dont then no harm. Except wasted time... if you dont like.

As long as you can cover all your app needs and battery life isnt to bad for you, you should be happy. I would go with ubuntu, yes the brown color is ugly but its simple to change. And if you wanna install kde desktop environment you can do that with ubuntu. And choice to boot into gnome or kde. I think i disklike kde because its so confusing. Gnome is much like windows kde is something else lol.

Also with ubuntu the ubuntu forums are great for help and info.

Another quick way to have KDE version of Ubuntu is to install Kubuntu.
I find KDE layout(Kubuntu,OpenSuse KDE versions etc..) more like Windows , Ubuntu everything is at top unless you customize it ,as a fairly new Linux user myself I now find KDE very natural like Windows,anyway each to their own as they say.

I reckon when 9.10 arrives they might change the brown colour for ubuntu,we shall see .


 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
57,985
8,222
126
Originally posted by: Mem


I reckon when 9.10 arrives they might change the brown colour for ubuntu,we shall see .

They better not. Ubuntu's brown, and that's the way it should always be. We don't need another cheezy blue Windows clone.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
81
Originally posted by: lxskllr
Originally posted by: Mem


I reckon when 9.10 arrives they might change the brown colour for ubuntu,we shall see .

They better not. Ubuntu's brown, and that's the way it should always be. We don't need another cheezy blue Windows clone.

Hehe well there are more then two colours to choose from .
 

sheemone00

Senior member
Sep 17, 2003
209
0
0
Typing from my new Linux install as we speak!

I decided to install Mint 7 (XFCE). After couple people mentioned it I did a little research about it and everything looked good so I decided to pick that distro.

So far, almost everything works pretty well out of the box. I haven't done any extensive testing, but I'm a happy camper so far.

Now I just have to go digging around finding some answers for the suspend/hibernate issue (screen goes all technicolor as I try to wake up from suspend/hibernation)

Also anyone know if Mint 7 adjusts my clock speed on my processor (Pentium-M) depending on the load or do I have to find a fix for that?
 

KeypoX

Diamond Member
Aug 31, 2003
3,655
0
71
Originally posted by: sheemone00
Typing from my new Linux install as we speak!

I decided to install Mint 7 (XFCE). After couple people mentioned it I did a little research about it and everything looked good so I decided to pick that distro.

So far, almost everything works pretty well out of the box. I haven't done any extensive testing, but I'm a happy camper so far.

Now I just have to go digging around finding some answers for the suspend/hibernate issue (screen goes all technicolor as I try to wake up from suspend/hibernation)

Also anyone know if Mint 7 adjusts my clock speed on my processor (Pentium-M) depending on the load or do I have to find a fix for that?

right click on panel>then you can add cpu frequency monitor.
 
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