Install Vista, Install Big Brother

[WiseOldDude]

This reads like a chapter out of George Orwell's"1984"

Why would anyone even consider loading such a draconian OS on their PC? This is a very scary agenda on the part of M$, and I hope it is indeed Vista's suicide note.

Vista crippled by content protection
Collateral damage from Vista suicide note.
Chris Mellor, Techworld
27 December 2006

PC users around the globe may find driver software is stopped from working by Vista if it detects unauthorised content access. Peter Guttman, a security engineering researcher at New Zealand's university of Auckland, has written A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection. He reckons Vista is trying to achieve the impossible by protecting access to premium content. Users will find their PCs' compromised by the persistent and continuous content access checks carried out by Vista.

Gutman thinks these checks and the associated increased in multimedia card hardware costs make Vista's content protection specification 'the longest suicide note in history.'

The core elements in Vista have been designed to protect access to premium content. The design requires changes in multimedia cards before Microsoft will support them for Vista use.

Content that is protected by digital rights management (DRM) must be sent across protected interfaces. This means cards using non-protected interfaces can't be used by Vista PCs.
Disabling and degrading

Vista is disadvantaging high-end audio and video systems by openly disabling devices. The most common high-end audio output interface is S/PDIF (Sony/Philips Digital Interface Format) which doesn't have any content protection. It must be disabled in a Vista system when DRM-protected content is being played. Equally a high-end component video interface (YPbPr) also has no content protection and must be disabled when protected video is being played.

- Vista covertly degrades playback quality. PC voice communications rely on automatic echo cancellation (AEC) in order to provide acceptable voice quality. This requires feeding back a sample of the audio mix into the echo cancellation subsystem, which isn't permitted by Vista's content protection scheme. This lowers PC voice communication quality because echo affects will still be present.

- This overt and covert degrading of quality is dynamic, not consistent. Whenever any audio derived from premium content is played on a Vista PC, the disabling of output devices and downgrading of signal quality takes place. If the premium content then fades away the outputs are re-enabled and signal quality climbs back up. Such system behaviour today indicates a driver error. With Vista it will be normal behaviour.

- Vista has another playback quality reduction measure. It requires that 'any interface that provides high-quality output degrade the signal quality that passes through it if premium content is present. This is done through a "constrictor" that downgrades the signal to a much lower-quality one, then up-scales it again back to the original spec, but with a significant loss in quality.' If this happens with a medical imaging application then artifacts introduced by the constrictor can 'cause mis-diagnoses and in extreme cases even become life-threatening.'
CPU cycle guzzling

The O/S will use much more of a PC's CPU resource because 'Vista's content protection requires that devices (hardware and software drivers) set so-called "tilt bits" if they detect anything unusual ... Vista polls video devices on each video frame displayed in order to check that all of the grenade pins (tilt bits) are still as they should be.'

Also 'In order to prevent tampering with in-system communications, all communication flows have to be encrypted and/or authenticated. For example content sent to video devices has to be encrypted with AES-128.' Encryption/decryption is known to be CPU-intensive

Device drivers in Vista are required to poll their underlying hardware every 30ms - thirty times a second - to ensure that everything appears correct.

It is apparent that Vista is going to use very much more of a PC's resources than previous versions of Windows and degrade multi-media playback quality unless the user has purchased premium content from a Microsoft-approved resource.

Such over-reaching by Microsoft could prove to be the catalyst needed to spur increased takeup of Linux desktop operating software, or of Apple's Mac OS.

http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?newsid=7675

 

[xtknight]

If this happens with a medical imaging application then artifacts introduced by the constrictor can 'cause mis-diagnoses and in extreme cases even become life-threatening.'

Darn, I guess I'll have to ask my doctor for a DRM-free x-ray next time.

 

[mechBgon]

Quickly, someone get the mind-control helmet back onto the OP!!! :shocked:



Oh and

R

 

[Shawn]

I don't get why people are making such a big deal about this. Just don't buy DRM content. If you want music just buy the cd or pirate it. Better than dealing with DRM.

 

[WiseOldDude]

Originally posted by: Shawn
I don't get why people are making such a big deal about this. Just don't buy DRM content. If you want music just buy the cd or pirate it. Better than dealing with DRM.

And do you want to bet that Vista will not report you for such activity? Have you forgotten the lesson from the Sony rootkit?

What about all the processing, checking, phoning home, just to make sure you are not trying to view/hear any premium content. Gee no HDTV content, and when all TV broadcasts are digital, I bet they all will be 'flagged' as premium content.

 

[Nothinman]

And do you want to bet that Vista will not report you for such activity?

And how can Vista discern between MP3s that you've downloaded and ones that you ripped yourself?

If you don't like it, don't use it, it's that simple.

 

[ritmal]

kinda scary all the damn DRM they want to force on everyone

 

[WiseOldDude]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

And do you want to bet that Vista will not report you for such activity?

And how can Vista discern between MP3s that you've downloaded and ones that you ripped yourself?

If you don't like it, don't use it, it's that simple.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.......... it's digital dude, which makes it really really simple, amost as simple as........... (never mind)

 

[Nothinman]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.......... it's digital dude, which makes it really really simple, amost as simple as........... (never mind)

No, it's not simple since MP3s have no uniquely identifiable information and since the compression is lossy creating 2 rips of the same song will be slightly different. Please, if you think you've got a fool proof plan to identify pirated music let us hear it.

 

[rbV5]

and when all TV broadcasts are digital, I bet they all will be 'flagged' as premium content.

So all the SDTV broadcasts will be down converted to 480p....the HORROR!

Not much hyperbole here, at least Mr. Mellor has an eye for breaking tech news.

 

[greylica]

It's the new degradation era, some call me idiot on this forum to be opposed to these inutilities.
Really my english is terrible, but the most terrible future is that you can buy something in 2007 or 2008 and it will function like a 1980 television very degraded. A big step for the future is the degradation era, we can degrade windows in utilization too.
Well, we can do things without computer that is amazing, like Downhill with mountain bikes, play soccer, and other amazing stuff.
You can allways switch to linux too.
But, like the tecnicians here in Brazil said, they will always use the pirated thing to promote the real thing for whose can buy it like an kind of " I am better than you ! " thing. All illusion. No one like DRM, no one likes to have one day to do a retinal scan to listen to a simple music. Or to do a DNA test to be able to see a film.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: WiseOldDude

Originally posted by: Shawn
I don't get why people are making such a big deal about this. Just don't buy DRM content. If you want music just buy the cd or pirate it. Better than dealing with DRM.

And do you want to bet that Vista will not report you for such activity? Have you forgotten the lesson from the Sony rootkit?

What about all the processing, checking, phoning home, just to make sure you are not trying to view/hear any premium content. Gee no HDTV content, and when all TV broadcasts are digital, I bet they all will be 'flagged' as premium content.

Where do you people come up with this bullsh|t? These DRM rumors are a bunch of crap. Chances are you won't ever know it's there. I've used several builds of vista, including RTM and there was no phoning home. It played my pirated mp3s and my legal mp3s just fine and it couldn't tell the difference between the two and it sure as hell didn't care either because mp3s don't have DRM. This is the same type of garbage people were spewing when XP came out and it was all BS.

Also Vista recorded my tv shows just fine with Media Center and there was no playback issues, even over my network for my friend who only had XP Home. It also played all the movies and tv shows that I downloaded with bittorant. IF IT DOESN'T HAVE DRM VISTA DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU DO WITH IT!

 

[WiseOldDude]

Well bully for you, but you don't have the hardware that will do this yet (RTFA) there genius.

The core elements in Vista have been designed to protect access to premium content. The design requires changes in multimedia cards before Microsoft will support them for Vista use.

Also read the EULA (very similar to RTFA)

reading.......... what a concept ......... I wonder if it will ever catch on.

 

[Nothinman]

Chances are you won't ever know it's there.

Unless you have an HD tuner card or HDDVD drive or want to play encrypted WMAs. It might not affect you because you don't want to play any protected content but that doesn't mean it won't be a huge PITA for other people.

I've used several builds of vista, including RTM and there was no phoning home.

Sure there is, at the very least the activation is "phoning home" which I believe Vista is supposed to do periodically instead of only once like XP did.

And WiseOldDude, I'm still waiting on your simple solution for determining whether a MP3 is pirated or not.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

Chances are you won't ever know it's there.

Unless you have an HD tuner card or HDDVD drive or want to play encrypted WMAs. It might not affect you because you don't want to play any protected content but that doesn't mean it won't be a huge PITA for other people.

Sure, but good luck trying to get that hardware to work at all in XP. HD content requires a DRM compliant OS. Apple knows this and is complying also. Blame the MPAA not microsoft.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: WiseOldDude
Well bully for you, but you don't have the hardware that will do this yet (RTFA) there genius.

The core elements in Vista have been designed to protect access to premium content. The design requires changes in multimedia cards before Microsoft will support them for Vista use.

Also read the EULA (very similar to RTFA)

reading.......... what a concept ......... I wonder if it will ever catch on.

The hardware is available, I'm pretty sure you don't know whether he has it or not. Amazingly, this is OLD news (there have been plenty of discussion on "HDCP" and hardware, and compliance over the past several months) You should read some of the numerous threads on the matter here at AT

 

[Nothinman]

Sure, but good luck trying to get that hardware to work at all in XP. HD content requires a DRM compliant OS. Apple knows this and is complying also. Blame the MPAA not microsoft.

I never said that it was MS' fault, as much as I dislike MS and their software I do realize that they don't have a choice in this matter. I just pointed out that even though it's not causing you any problems now that doesn't mean it won't in the future.

 

[greylica]

Also Vista recorded my tv shows just fine with Media Center and there was no playback issues, even over my network for my friend who only had XP Home. It also played all the movies and tv shows that I downloaded with bittorant. IF IT DOESN'T HAVE DRM VISTA DOESN'T CARE WHAT YOU DO WITH IT!

So for now, when the pressure get's higher, may Microsoft tend to police everyone or make a tool to give them this ability. But I simply will not complain with the idea of a tossed hardware failure started by an software wrong approach like the tilt bits can possibly do.
The Microsoft specifications is very unclear, and is very strange that the hardware manufacturers complain with this. If, I said If, they receive money from microsoft like SUSE in this year of 2006. part of the problem is explained, But i think after Soros retired, the studios can be buying stock options of Microsoft to ensure the negotiation will fly and Microsoft will do exaclty what they are wanting. Microsoft is a sinner too, because they use that situation to put DRM into the core of the system and control the flow of media joining studios. They will need DRM too.

 

[Shawn]

Originally posted by: WiseOldDude
Well bully for you, but you don't have the hardware that will do this yet (RTFA) there genius.

The core elements in Vista have been designed to protect access to premium content. The design requires changes in multimedia cards before Microsoft will support them for Vista use.

Also read the EULA (very similar to RTFA)

reading.......... what a concept ......... I wonder if it will ever catch on.

I read it and it's all the same BS that's been posted on these forums hundreds of times. There is nothing preventing your current hardware from working and there is nothing keeping you from doing what you were already able to do in XP. It's new stuff like viewing HD content that'll be protected. You are not losing anything by using your old hardware and switching to Vista, you just can't make use of some of Vista's new features. What about that is so hard to understand?

 

[GimpyFuzznut]

What's the big deal? You don't like it? Don't waste your money on DRM crap called "premium content" and you won't have any problems. All this apocalypse scenario junk only applies to the people who are going to waste their money on that crap. If you don't like it, show them you don't like it and pirate that ****** instead. There won't be any problems playing ripped music and pirated movies in SD or HD or whatever. If you honestly go out and spend a thousand bucks on a Blu-Ray drive you deserve to get raped for being a stupid consumer and putting up with MPAA and RIAA's greed and BS. Personally, I'm going to continue doing what I've always done and send a big stinking F*** Y** to those Nazi organizations and enjoy DRM-free 1080 movies.

 

[greylica]

Originally posted by: GimpyFuzznut
What's the big deal? You don't like it? Don't waste your money on DRM crap called "premium content" and you won't have any problems. All this apocalypse scenario junk only applies to the people who are going to waste their money on that crap. If you don't like it, show them you don't like it and pirate that ****** instead. There won't be any problems playing ripped music and pirated movies in SD or HD or whatever. If you honestly go out and spend a thousand bucks on a Blu-Ray drive you deserve to get raped for being a stupid consumer and putting up with MPAA and RIAA's greed and BS. Personally, I'm going to continue doing what I've always done and send a big stinking F*** Y** to those Nazi organizations and enjoy DRM-free 1080 movies.

Yeah, we will turn their lifes into an apocalypse not doing what they want, smash them all !

 

[WiseOldDude]

Originally posted by: Nothinman

And WiseOldDude, I'm still waiting on your simple solution for determining whether a MP3 is pirated or not.

And if a CD is ripped on a Vista machine, it would be very simple to encode all sorts of information into the file, and will remain part of that file as it is shared around the world. What information, perhaps the serial number of the CPU chip, which of course can be uploaded to M$ or the NSA or anyone else when Vista is activated and reactivated periodically.

Did you pay any attention to what the Sony rootkit was trying to accomplish, which was really a rather crude attempt, but would have been effective had someone not accidentally detected it. And under the DRM that act of actually looking on your personal PC for something like a Sony rootkit has been made illegal?

 

[WiseOldDude]

Originally posted by: ShawnYou are not losing anything by using your old hardware and switching to Vista, you just can't make use of some of Vista's new features. What about that is so hard to understand?

And what happens in 2 or 3 years when your old hardware just doesn't cut it any longer and you are ready to upgrade. Will you have a choice?

 

[Nothinman]

And if a CD is ripped on a Vista machine, it would be very simple to encode all sorts of information into the file, and will remain part of that file as it is shared around the world. What information, perhaps the serial number of the CPU chip, which of course can be uploaded to M$ or the NSA or anyone else when Vista is activated and reactivated periodically.

This is what we call paranoia, it's not bad in small doses but I think you've had more than your fill today. And the only methods for storing non-mpeg data in an MP3 that I'm aware of is with ID3 tags which are easy for the user to see and change, if they did just shove it in the middle of the file somewhere it would be played at some point and you'd hear the noise even if for just a second, probably a few seconds if they go with the amount of information that you're suggesting. And if they actually went through the subversive measures that you're suggesting someone like the EFF would take them to court and we'd finally get a verdict on just how enforcable those EULAs are.

Did you pay any attention to what the Sony rootkit was trying to accomplish, which was really a rather crude attempt, but would have been effective had someone not accidentally detected it.

It was trying to make the disc playable only via their software, nothing more. Obviously I don't agree with Sony's tactics but they're intent wasn't as sinister as you'd make it out to be.

And under the DRM that act of actually looking on your personal PC for something like a Sony rootkit has been made illegal?

What "DRM act"? Are you talking about the DMCA? If so, your interpretation seems to be a pretty unique one considering that if it was illegal to look for a rootkit on your PC all of those antivirus and antispyware tools would be illegal which obviously isn't true.

 

[Markbnj]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh.......... it's digital dude, which makes it really really simple, amost as simple as........... (never mind)

I don't advise lecturing Nothinman unless you have a clue .