Institutional Indoctrination

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: BigJelly
As a conservative student in madison you can actually use professors political bias to boost your grade:
in my american history class the professor was just a left wing nut well i realized what i needed to study for the final: watergate and Nixon's impeachment, iran contra affair, Nixon and vietnam (not democratic presidents rolls in escaliting the war just nixon), etc.

Well i realized i could write the truth and get a c or write the obvious liberal BS and get an a. Sh!t im a chem major so i took the a.

Its sick that professors act like 5 year olds and get away with it. But you have to expect it. Sadly i cant say i feel bad for you, i would have realized the teacher was either pro/anti commi and follow him/her in my essay to get the better grade.

As someone else said if you have an engineering/science/math major you barely see politics but you must expect politics with pol. sci./history/art classes.

Actually, I found that reading the prof was more important than reading the material.

 

[preslove]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: preslove

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: SuperTool

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Conservative jealosy of liberal academic success. Nothing to see here, move along.

Heres a saying...

Those that can, do. Those that cant, teach. Those that cant teach work for the government.

Its also funny, because most liberals think Karl Rove is some sort of evil genius puppet master. Gotta say, not bad for a man that dropped out of six different colleges and never recieved a degree.

Ah yes, because teachers aren't doing anything. If you want to make Carl Rove your hero instead of your teachers, be my guest.
You couldn't teach a brick to sit still, so your criticizm of academia is of no interest to me.

The easiest courses that I ever took were at university level. I couldn't believe how little challenge there was. Bio101 and Business statistics were the only two that I really had to do more than read the references and parrot answers for the test for. Accounting was tough, but that wasn't from difficult theory, but the damned practice sets.

Where did you go to school? What was your major?

University of Alabama, of course. Had some credits with Uni of Nebraska and some with UK. Business Admin/Banking and Finance. A few (30 hours) Education electives. Strangely, the education courses were the easiest. Probably because I had been teaching computer science for some years in industry before.

In other words, a non-academic track was full of easy classes.

 

[illustri]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: BigJelly
As a conservative student in madison you can actually use professors political bias to boost your grade:
in my american history class the professor was just a left wing nut well i realized what i needed to study for the final: watergate and Nixon's impeachment, iran contra affair, Nixon and vietnam (not democratic presidents rolls in escaliting the war just nixon), etc.

Well i realized i could write the truth and get a c or write the obvious liberal BS and get an a. Sh!t im a chem major so i took the a.

Its sick that professors act like 5 year olds and get away with it. But you have to expect it. Sadly i cant say i feel bad for you, i would have realized the teacher was either pro/anti commi and follow him/her in my essay to get the better grade.

As someone else said if you have an engineering/science/math major you barely see politics but you must expect politics with pol. sci./history/art classes.

Actually, I found that reading the prof was more important than reading the material.

I think thats what he means
and anyway its the prof teaching more than the material
"material" just written by another professor from another university anyway so at least by doing so you have the chance to challenge or doubt the info (tastefully now) in person

 

[imported_Condor]

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Conservative jealosy of liberal academic success. Nothing to see here, move along.

Shacking up in an academic institution for wasted years is success? Looks like fear of reality to me, like people who are afraid to leave their house.

huh? faculty don't live in dorms

I see this same argument of academic settings as somehow separated from "the real world" but that just goes to show the ignorance of those making that claim

professors and staff work at academic institutions which are just as any other, subject to the same politics and conventions

don't forget that education is a business institution drawfing nearly everything else. those who'd think it so different from industry are just kissing ass on the other cheek, your noses just as browned

It is a somewhat cushioned environment. My observation was that surviving in an academic institution with all of the tenure rules and stuff was not easy. I didn't mean that, I meant that they get locked into the academic surround and fear the outside. I have a cousin whose Dad thought he was never going to be anything but a student. He finally got a real job about three years back. He is now in a Washington think tank.

 

[imported_Condor]

I had already had years of comp science and wanted to master the business apps. I didn't need an EE or a math degree. I needed the surround. I was trying to better understand what my clients were using the comps for.

 

[cwjerome]

Bigjelly, I basically agree with you... it's best to just go with the flow, which I normally did. Except a couple times. Once was with one the best profs I ever had, a raging ultra left winger named Dr. Lee Carter. He was fair, honest, smart, and actually had a sense of humor. We talked a lot outside of class and he wrote me a letter of Rec We battled, but I had total respect for him and he actually respected me.

Once though, I had this racist shmuck Dr. Benevides for an intro to bilingual ed class. They guy peppered his lectures with so many liberal cliches, totally dissing anyone or anything right of center, and was about the most arrogant bastard I've ever met. It was completely out of place. When I did the midway presentation he actually started arguing with me while I was presenting and then cut me off halfway through. The whole class was shocked- I had people coming up to me after class telling me how screwed up he was. To make a long story short I got an Incomplete for that class because he wasn't sure I "understood the material" in my final paper... in other words I didn't agree with his stupidity. Wasted a lot of time and money for that bullsh*t.

Most of the time though, I just sat back and regurgitated what the clowns wanted to hear. Idiots.

 

[illustri]

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: illustri

Originally posted by: Condor

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Conservative jealosy of liberal academic success. Nothing to see here, move along.

Shacking up in an academic institution for wasted years is success? Looks like fear of reality to me, like people who are afraid to leave their house.

huh? faculty don't live in dorms

I see this same argument of academic settings as somehow separated from "the real world" but that just goes to show the ignorance of those making that claim

professors and staff work at academic institutions which are just as any other, subject to the same politics and conventions

don't forget that education is a business institution drawfing nearly everything else. those who'd think it so different from industry are just kissing ass on the other cheek, your noses just as browned

It is a somewhat cushioned environment. My observation was that surviving in an academic institution with all of the tenure rules and stuff was not easy. I didn't mean that, I meant that they get locked into the academic surround and fear the outside. I have a cousin whose Dad thought he was never going to be anything but a student. He finally got a real job about three years back. He is now in a Washington think tank.

but see thats my point, its not the instructors that are sheltered - you agree they probably have to work their ass off getting capitol for their university just like at a firm, to get tenure or senority

its the students who are or were at some point sheltered, and are projecting that insecurity on those who had educated them as authority figures

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: preslove

Some articles I dug up regarding campus bias. I was initially made aware of this when I had to write a term paper on the communist manifesto several years ago in a political science class. I took a quick survey of the class after I thought I was graded rather harsh (IMO, it was a very well written paper) It turned out everyone who concluded Marx was right got at least an A- , everyone who disagreed with him averaged a C+. As it turns out, this was not an isolated incident.

You just sound like a sh!tty student trying to prove something. In a poli sci class you break an argument down and first say why it is made, what forces are behind it, how will/did it affect further events. If you just write a paper about how some figure is "wrong" then you're going to get a bad grade. It's not your job to explain why they are wrong, but to explain why they make it. Enjoy your C+

ummm, read the thread before posting. In my post after that one, further explaining my paper, I used real examples. My main comparisons being between the phone services before and after the breakup of AT&T. And also note my perceived bias was not based on a single paper, but 300.

 

[lozina]

Originally posted by: BigJelly
As a conservative student in madison you can actually use professors political bias to boost your grade:
in my american history class the professor was just a left wing nut well i realized what i needed to study for the final: watergate and Nixon's impeachment, iran contra affair, Nixon and vietnam (not democratic presidents rolls in escaliting the war just nixon), etc.

Well i realized i could write the truth and get a c or write the obvious liberal BS and get an a. Sh!t im a chem major so i took the a.

Its sick that professors act like 5 year olds and get away with it. But you have to expect it. Sadly i cant say i feel bad for you, i would have realized the teacher was either pro/anti commi and follow him/her in my essay to get the better grade.

As someone else said if you have an engineering/science/math major you barely see politics but you must expect politics with pol. sci./history/art classes.

Ever watch Pi?

Sol talking to Max: If you want to find
the number two sixteen in the
world, you'll be able to pull
it out of anywhere. Two
hundred and sixteen steps
from your street comer to
your front door. Two hundred
and sixteen seconds you spend
riding on the elevator. When
your mind becomes obsessed
with anything, it will filter
everything else out and find
examples of that thing
everywhere. Three hundred and
twenty, four hundred and
fifty, twenty-three.
Whatever! You've chosen two
sixteen and you'll find it
everywhere in nature.

You've chosen "commis", and you'll find them everywhere in nature.

 

[imported_Condor]

I had an English lit prof that was a neighbor and thought that eng lit was the end all and be all. He gave a test on eng lit from 1600 to present that had only one question. Name all important British and American authors from 1600 to present, write one para describing each of their major works and list birth and death dates. I cheated on the dates and aced the test. He had never had anyone that could remember all of the dates and used them to keep his curve. He knew I had to have cheated, but couldn't figure out how. I had put the dates on the borders of the sheet of note paper I took into the test in binary coded gray code. Just looked like pencil dots to anyone who didn't know what it was.

 

[Train]

No ones denying these professors are smart, or deserve the position they are in. I'm sure most of them are exceptionally well educated, thats not my point. The professor I was referring to was actually a very entertaining lecturer, he presented the history of Napoleon so well he became one of my favorite people in history to study.

The issue im trying to bring up here is the lack of acceptance, or lack of presentation, of a countering view. Like one of the artcles I quoted states, it is a major disservice to the students to only show one side of the coin. The real threat of ignorance comes when you only look at the side of a story you want to look at, and make your decision.

I'm glad I studied the communist manifesto, dont get me wrong. But there was zero material presented for an opposing view, or any other view for that matter. Thats where the problem lies. How can you come to a complete decision when you are only presented with a single idea?

 

[Gigantopithecus]

Originally posted by: dgevert

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
I'm surprised the articles don't discuss how the teaching of neo-Darwinism is indoctrinating liberal bias.

Are you joking, or are you just stupid?

I wish it was only a joke.

 

[jlmadyson]

Some articles I dug up regarding campus bias. I was initially made aware of this when I had to write a term paper on the communist manifesto several years ago in a political science class. I took a quick survey of the class after I thought I was graded rather harsh (IMO, it was a very well written paper) It turned out everyone who concluded Marx was right got at least an A- , everyone who disagreed with him averaged a C+. As it turns out, this was not an isolated incident.

As I work through my doctorate in political science I'm very careful with the views that I share. For, I know, the possibility of a lowered grade is too handsome of a price to pay at the moment. In due time things will be different, but as a past professor and mentor of mine once said while I was working on my Master's, "you keep your mouth shut till they sign the dotted line." My mother's view (a high school teacher with tenure) of course maybe the more appropriate one for the field and that is keep your mouth shut till your granted tenure. I do get a little bit of a balance here and there. My main political theory professor is a conservative thinker, which is nice of course there is plenty of open debate from both sides in his classes. Of course, I eat it up when he puts the left-wingers in their place.

Try to play the middle ground. Oftentimes personal opinions can be left out of papers and certianly out of class discussion.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Condor
I had an English lit prof that was a neighbor and thought that eng lit was the end all and be all. He gave a test on eng lit from 1600 to present that had only one question. Name all important British and American authors from 1600 to present, write one para describing each of their major works and list birth and death dates. I cheated on the dates and aced the test. He had never had anyone that could remember all of the dates and used them to keep his curve. He knew I had to have cheated, but couldn't figure out how. I had put the dates on the borders of the sheet of note paper I took into the test in binary coded gray code. Just looked like pencil dots to anyone who didn't know what it was.

HOLY CRAP... thats the most ingenious thing i've ever heard!

hah using binary to cheat on exams....brilliant!

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: Train
No ones denying these professors are smart, or deserve the position they are in. I'm sure most of them are exceptionally well educated, thats not my point. The professor I was referring to was actually a very entertaining lecturer, he presented the history of Napoleon so well he became one of my favorite people in history to study.

The issue im trying to bring up here is the lack of acceptance, or lack of presentation, of a countering view. Like one of the artcles I quoted states, it is a major disservice to the students to only show one side of the coin. The real threat of ignorance comes when you only look at the side of a story you want to look at, and make your decision.

I'm glad I studied the communist manifesto, dont get me wrong. But there was zero material presented for an opposing view, or any other view for that matter. Thats where the problem lies. How can you come to a complete decision when you are only presented with a single idea?

Thanks a good point but you like others must learn that many professors that express their political opinions want you to agree with them 100% and that if you dont you wont get a good grade. I know thats the problem you are trying to show but that cant be solved unless major changes take place--ultimatly removal of tenure which will NEVER happen. Its sick and hurts students, but look at the plus side--if you're a conservative like me--you learn to see both sides and the liberals that take his/her class dont. So in the long run you are better off. Furthermore, you are more likely to see their political bias and like me can use it to get better grades.

If you do or dont agree with me just take this advice--pander to your professors politicals bias and opinions if you feel thats what they want to hear (most likely those are professors that make snide remarks against those they disagree with and express their opinions that raise your eyebrows). You can take the moral high road and get a c or pander and get an a--its sick but true. College is more about learning on your own or with your peers and having professors and TAs help guide you through it.

 

[BigJelly]

Originally posted by: lozina

Originally posted by: BigJelly
As a conservative student in madison you can actually use professors political bias to boost your grade:
in my american history class the professor was just a left wing nut well i realized what i needed to study for the final: watergate and Nixon's impeachment, iran contra affair, Nixon and vietnam (not democratic presidents rolls in escaliting the war just nixon), etc.

Well i realized i could write the truth and get a c or write the obvious liberal BS and get an a. Sh!t im a chem major so i took the a.

Its sick that professors act like 5 year olds and get away with it. But you have to expect it. Sadly i cant say i feel bad for you, i would have realized the teacher was either pro/anti commi and follow him/her in my essay to get the better grade.

As someone else said if you have an engineering/science/math major you barely see politics but you must expect politics with pol. sci./history/art classes.

Ever watch Pi?

Sol talking to Max: If you want to find
the number two sixteen in the
world, you'll be able to pull
it out of anywhere. Two
hundred and sixteen steps
from your street comer to
your front door. Two hundred
and sixteen seconds you spend
riding on the elevator. When
your mind becomes obsessed
with anything, it will filter
everything else out and find
examples of that thing
everywhere. Three hundred and
twenty, four hundred and
fifty, twenty-three.
Whatever! You've chosen two
sixteen and you'll find it
everywhere in nature.

You've chosen "commis", and you'll find them everywhere in nature.

i never saw pi so i dont know what you mean, can you explain what you mean?

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: digitalsm

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Conservative jealosy of liberal academic success. Nothing to see here, move along.

Heres a saying...

Those that can, do. Those that cant, teach. Those that cant teach work for the government.

Teaching is a relatively minor part of a professor's work. Much of their time is spent conducting research. The professors I have been taught by or worked with were all passionate about (obessessed with, really) their particular area of research. These are the people making the primary contributions of new knowledge to our culture. I think they deserve more respect than they get.

 

[BeauJangles]

Of course there is a liberal bias in education, it has been around for a long time now. I really think that, instead of trying to insult liberals or pass legislation requiring the teaching of "balanced" material, we should try to understand why there are more liberals in academia. Why do conservatives rarely enter the field? Once we figure out the answer, we should address the root of the problem, without making laws about HOW to teach in a classroom.

 

[Dissipate]

Train, the military and government worshipper talking about indoctrination?! Bwahahahahaha.

 

[Rainsford]

Ever since this latest whine about "indoctrination" has popped up (funny how all of a sudden you all are using that word, eh?), I've had this feeling that something was "off" about the argument, but I just couldn't put my finger on it.

But then it hit me, the argument simply doesn't make any logical sense. Nothing complicated, it is just a God awful argument. I mean let's break it down here. You have individual stories centered around a theme. No studies, no overall view. Stories. A good number of them, but still individual instances of acedemics acting stupid. As anyone who lives in the real world knows, any group of any size will have stories like this. Oh, but here's the shocker, many of these stories involve liberal's acting stupid towards conservatives. Well oddly enough, there ARE a greater precentage of liberals in higher education than in the general population. Why that is true doesn't really matter at the moment, because even if conservative professors were biased the same percentage as liberal professors, you'd expect there to be more stories of liberal bias.

In other words, show me how a bunch of disconnected stories of bias from liberal professors makes a convincing argument for "institutional indoctrination", because I'm just not seeing it. And in any case, I STILL think you are a bunch of whiney little girls. During many years where I was a hell of a lot less sure of myself than I am now, I went to a Catholic school. And yet, despite being an impressionable kid, I managed to get out of there as an individual with my own views intact. Some college kid whining about how his professor is trying to convince him to see things from a different viewpoint is not going to win him a hell of a lot of sympathy from me. Now if the professor is treating people unfairly, that's a different story. But how much of that is REALLY going on?

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Train, the military and government worshipper talking about indoctrination?! Bwahahahahaha.

when I have I ever "worshipped" the military or the Govt?

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Train, the military and government worshipper talking about indoctrination?! Bwahahahahaha.

when I have I ever "worshipped" the military or the Govt?

Semper Fi

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Train, the military and government worshipper talking about indoctrination?! Bwahahahahaha.

when I have I ever "worshipped" the military or the Govt?

Semper Fi

umm, ya..... thats "worship" all right :roll:

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Train, the military and government worshipper talking about indoctrination?! Bwahahahahaha.

when I have I ever "worshipped" the military or the Govt?

Semper Fi

umm, ya..... thats "worship" all right :roll:

I don't know what else to call a proclamation of being "always faithful" to the state.

 

[SuperTool]

Yeah, let's purge our colleges of liberals, and replace them with dittoheads. That will work.
Setup the GOP equivalent of Komsomol while you are at it, to make sure the students are getting proper Republican indoctrination.