Intel 14 nm delayed.

[blackened23]

If you're tired you could always take a break from the forum blackened, that way everybody wins. Oh btw why don't you flame me in PM's like you did with Galego? What was it you said about his mother?

Uhm, I have never sent galego a PM, not once. Although, refresh my memory, he's gone from here for basically doing what he did. Right? And i'm sure you know his posting style. Anyway, i'm done discussing the matter.

 

[SiliconWars]

Apologies, it wasn't you it was another one of you who will not go named. I've removed that part of my post.

 

[Phynaz]

Apologies, it wasn't you it was another one of you who will not go named. I've removed that part of my post.

Interesting the context of how you use the word "you".

 

[SiliconWars]

Interesting the context of how you use the word "you".

The most interesting part is how you analysed it that way. You know what they say about hammers and nails, right.

Btw Phynaz do you ever actually contribute anything on a tech level to this forum? All I ever see from you is "witty" 1-liners bashing AMD.


Knock off the troll comments.
Markfw900
Anandtech Moderator.

 

[bullzz]

this is getting hilarious

 

[SiliconWars]

https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/cont...nm-move-450mm-slipping-too-euv-who-knows.html

One takeaway was that Intel's delay of a quarter or two in 14nm was just taken as a given during the lunch.

Emphasis mine.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Apologies, it wasn't you it was another one of you who will not go named. I've removed that part of my post.

Did you and Galego swap notes and discuss tactics for how you would post on this forum?

 

[Fjodor2001]

Did you and Galego swap notes and discuss tactics for how you would post on this forum?

And your post brings what useful info to the discussion on the topic in the OP? Or are you just trying to start personal arguments and destroy the thread as usual...?

 

[Fjodor2001]

http://vr-zone.com/articles/intels-...re-broadwell-and-haswell-are-going/47119.html

And that was before this latest announcement that Broadwell is delayed one quarter. So this means that Broadwell now is expected to be released Q4 2014 or Q1 2015...

Again, total FUD, since the delay is with respect to statements made on the prior earnings call,

Seems like it was you were incorrect after all. See:

http://chinese.vr-zone.com/87345/in...pset-z97-for-desktop-at-end-of-2014-10192013/

http://wccftech.com/intel-broadwell-k-series-desktop-processors-launch-q4-2014-lga-1150-socket/

Which indicates that Broadwell now is scheduled to be released sometime between very late 2014 to Q1 2015.

 

[krumme]

Well what is the need for broadwell anyway. Haswell is without competition. If there is delay of broadwell i am sure its the right thing to do.

What is the current scedule of 14nm Atom?

 

[Fjodor2001]

It's also interesting that the Haswell Refresh & Broadwell on LGA 1150 is rated at up to 95W TDP! That's higher than the 84 W TDP for current top Haswell CPUs (4670K/4770K) on 22 nm.

If that TDP increase is needed for the Broadwell CPU, could it mean that:

a) It is not as power efficient as hoped?
b) They have bumped up the CPU frequency?
c) 6 CPU cores?
d) They have beefed up the iGPU, or added eDRAM as on the Iris iGPU for mobile Haswell?

Or perhaps a combination of some of the above... ? :hmm:

 

[mikk]

Seems like it was you were incorrect after all. See:

http://chinese.vr-zone.com/87345/in...pset-z97-for-desktop-at-end-of-2014-10192013/

http://wccftech.com/intel-broadwell-k-series-desktop-processors-launch-q4-2014-lga-1150-socket/

Which indicates that Broadwell now is scheduled to be released sometime between very late 2014 to Q1 2015.

He isn't wrong. Mobile != Desktop


People don't understand the difference. Broadwell-K doesn't say anything about first Broadwell products.

It's also interesting that the Haswell Refresh & Broadwell on LGA 1150 is rated at up to 95W TDP!

Not really interesting since TDP numbers are probably just placeholders. It's too early for Broadwell TDP numbers.

 

[Fjodor2001]

He isn't wrong. Mobile != Desktop

People don't understand the difference. Broadwell-K doesn't say anything about first Broadwell products.

So far Intel's mainstream Mobile CPUs have been released at the same time or after the Desktop CPUs. The K-variants have always been released first in a new CPU generation.

That may perhaps change going forward, but it's not known for sure. Or do you have any source stating that Mobile Broadwell CPUs actually will be released before the Desktop CPUs, and in that case by how many months?

Not really interesting since TDP numbers are probably just placeholders. It's too early for Broadwell TDP numbers.

Well, nobody knows for sure of course until the chips are actually released. But in similar slides that were presented for both Ivy Bridge and Haswell the TDP specified in them has proven to be correct.

Also, they don't just increase the TDP for fun you know! Likely, 95 W TDP is their best estimate of the final TDP as the moment. Having come this far in the development process it ought to be quite accurate. The chips are going to be released in about 1 year after all, so it's not that long until they'll actually enter fulls scale production! And at this point the motherboard manufacturers must adapt their design accordingly etc. Remember also that the same TDP is specified for the Haswell Refresh, which is only around 6 months away.

Finally, how can they claim a 30% power reduction if you say they are still so unsure about the TDP?

 

[R0H1T]

It's also interesting that the Haswell Refresh & Broadwell on LGA 1150 is rated at up to 95W TDP! That's higher than the 84 W TDP for current top Haswell CPUs (4670K/4770K) on 22 nm.

If that TDP increase is needed for the Broadwell CPU, could it mean that:

a) It is not as power efficient as hoped?
b) They have bumped up the CPU frequency?
c) 6 CPU cores?
d) They have beefed up the iGPU, or added eDRAM as on the Iris iGPU for mobile Haswell?

Or perhaps a combination of some of the above... ? :hmm:

Three or four(maybe both) cause Intel, like everyone else including ARM, is focusing more on GPU that & the fact that their x86 chips are increasingly getting almost nothing in terms of IPC improvements & most of their incremental gains are coming from bumping the clock frequency(thus TDP) plus stuff like AVX, quick sync et al.

 

[mikk]

So far Intel's mainstream Mobile CPUs have been released at the same time or after the Desktop CPUs.

Intel brought the whole lineup for desktop the last generations and not just some K-models. This time Intel prioritises mobile CPUs in BGA package and possibly Xeon E3 in LGA. Do you see a difference? It is more likely that Intel start shipping 14nm products for the most important segments first and later when some resources are free they start shipping K-models for consumers. It could be that consumer Broadwell for desktop wasn't planned at all contrary to Xeon models. Because of that: http://www.3dcenter.org/dateien/abbildungen/Intel-Desktop-Prozessoren-Roadmap-2013-2014.jpg

The previous vr-zone consumer Roadmap didn't have Broadwell on it, so either Broadwell-K moved forward or it wasn't planned (more likely imho). That's why all delay talk based on Broadwell-K is just silly.

Well, nobody knows for sure of course until the chips are actually released. But in similar slides that were presented for both Ivy Bridge and Haswell the TDP specified in them has proven to be correct.

This is wrong. For Haswell early Roadmaps stated 95W and later it came down to 84W. Just one example of many. Afaik it was the same for Ivy Bridge. Yes it was: http://pics.computerbase.de/3/4/0/7/8/1.jpg

Finally, how can they claim a 30% power reduction if you say they are still so unsure about the TDP?

Because it came down by 30% with optimizations still to come. Intel told at IDF they have yet to start working on 14nm optimizations the next couple of months. As long as it could change they can't finalize TDP and SDP values. That's why Roadmaps often say subject to change or exact TDP will be communicated later.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Intel brought the whole lineup for desktop the last generations and not just some K-models. This time Intel prioritises mobile CPUs in BGA package and possibly Xeon E3 in LGA. Do you see a difference? It is more likely that Intel start shipping 14nm products for the most important segments first and later when some resources are free they start shipping K-models for consumers. It could be that consumer Broadwell for desktop wasn't planned at all contrary to Xeon models. Because of that: http://www.3dcenter.org/dateien/abbildungen/Intel-Desktop-Prozessoren-Roadmap-2013-2014.jpg

The previous vr-zone consumer Roadmap didn't have Broadwell on it, so either Broadwell-K moved forward or it wasn't planned (more likely imho). That's why all delay talk based on Broadwell-K is just silly.

You still haven't shown any source indicating that Mobile Broadwell definitely will be released before the K-variant. So you're just guessing.

Also, the "delay talk" is not just about the K-variant, it's about Broadwell in general and 14 nm being delayed. See the OP.

This is wrong. For Haswell early Roadmaps stated 95W and later it came down to 84W. Just one example of many. Afaik it was the same for Ivy Bridge. Yes it was: http://pics.computerbase.de/3/4/0/7/8/1.jpg

Yes, but this is not an early roadmap. In fact it's a late roadmap, given that Broadwell is about to soon enter full production. And Haswell Refresh which also is specified at the same TDP will be released in only about 6 months. Do you really think they intend to tell the motherboard manufacturers to change their design to adapt to a different TDP just months before release?

 

[mikk]

You still haven't shown any source indicating that Mobile Broadwell definitely will be released before the K-variant. So you're just guessing.

And you haven't shown any source indicating that Broadwell-K is coming first or at the same time as Broadwell-U/Y. All sources suggests the opposite. Initially first Broadwell models for mobile BGA were planned for H1 2014 according to earlier Roadmaps, Broadwell-K or any consumer Broadwell never was which shows that Intel prioritises Broadwell-U/Y.

Also, the "delay talk" is not just about the K-variant, it's about Broadwell in general and 14 nm being delayed. See the OP.

You can talk about it but not based on Broadwell-K. Once again, there was no Broadwell-K stated for 2014 in the previous Roadmap from vr-zone. With you logic I could say Broadwell moved forward.

Yes, but this is not an early roadmap.

What is not an early Roadmap?

 

[Khato]

Am I the only one whose more interested to see a Broadwell-K show up on the roadmap than to debate whether or not it'll be the first Broadwell SKU? Implies that we may LGA1150 Broadwell chips for the enthusiast market at least after all rather than having to make do with Haswell for a full two years until Skylake.

 

[krumme]

Am I the only one whose more interested to see a Broadwell-K show up on the roadmap than to debate whether or not it'll be the first Broadwell SKU? Implies that we may LGA1150 Broadwell chips for the enthusiast market at least after all rather than having to make do with Haswell for a full two years until Skylake.

Do you need a faster igpu for your desktop?

 

[NTMBK]

Do you need a faster igpu for your desktop?

If Intel would get their shit together and release an iGPU accelerated version of Havok, then yes, I would.

 

[Fjodor2001]

And you haven't shown any source indicating that Broadwell-K is coming first or at the same time as Broadwell-U/Y. All sources suggests the opposite. Initially first Broadwell models for mobile BGA were planned for H1 2014 according to earlier Roadmaps, Broadwell-K or any consumer Broadwell never was which shows that Intel prioritises Broadwell-U/Y.

Yes, but the Broadwell models have been delayed, multiple times. First until 2H 2014, and now until Q4 2014 to Q1 2015 according to the latest roadmaps.

Based on previous releases K-variants have always been released first. I.e. that's what most likely to happen this time too. If you say "all sources" indicate that won't be the case this time, I'm surprised you're not able to provide even one that actually states that is the case for sure.

You can talk about it but not based on Broadwell-K. Once again, there was no Broadwell-K stated for 2014 in the previous Roadmap from vr-zone. With you logic I could say Broadwell moved forward.

Since 14 nm is delayed, it means the Broadwell CPUs in general are delayed. The fact that the individual variants to be released have not been definitely determined does not change that fact.

What is not an early Roadmap?

Read my previous post.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Am I the only one whose more interested to see a Broadwell-K show up on the roadmap than to debate whether or not it'll be the first Broadwell SKU? Implies that we may LGA1150 Broadwell chips for the enthusiast market at least after all rather than having to make do with Haswell for a full two years until Skylake.

I agree that's very interesting indeed! And that it's supposed to be rated at 95 W TDP makes it even more interesting. Assuming that is correct, the question is what those extra Watts will be spent on? As I wrote in my previous post, possibly it could be e.g. 6 CPU cores or they have really beefed up the iGPU perhaps with added eDRAM.

I mean if they just would have made a 4770K on 14 nm I guess it would be around 65 W TDP or so. So if they now have 30 W extra to play with it opens up some interesting opportunities.

 

[Nothingness]

Am I the only one whose more interested to see a Broadwell-K show up on the roadmap than to debate whether or not it'll be the first Broadwell SKU? Implies that we may LGA1150 Broadwell chips for the enthusiast market at least after all rather than having to make do with Haswell for a full two years until Skylake.

Count me in. I don't care about laptops, but I need powerful desktops for gaming and work.

(The only mobility I'm interested in is very long battery life, with high res screen, good keyboard and just enough perf to log into my desktop or the clusters at work, basically a portable terminal. Such a beast doesn't seem to exist, you have to pick an outrageously priced Intel CPU. Let's hope BT will fix that, though at the moment nothing is very convincing.)

 

[mikk]

Yes, but the Broadwell models have been delayed, multiple times. First until 2H 2014, and now until Q4 2014 to Q1 2015 according to the latest roadmaps.

Give a source. All we have is a Roadmap with H2 2014 on it and Intels claim that they start production in Q1. If they start production in late Q1 an early Q3 launch is possible.

Based on previous releases K-variants have always been released first.

I told you why your logic doesn't apply here.

it means the Broadwell CPUs in general are delayed.

And this is something we knew based on a Roadmap change. Broadwell mobile moved from H1 to H2.

 

[NTMBK]

Based on previous releases K-variants have always been released first. I.e. that's what most likely to happen this time too.

And based on previous releases the Atom has been released much later. Notice how that's changing around now? Intel is prioritising Atom and mobile Broadwell over its desktop parts for the new process.