News Intel 2Q24 Financial Results

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Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
6,389
11,392
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Report:

Intel was in talks with Softbank to manufacture a new AI processor, but Softbank pulled out.

This plan was aimed at ramping up SoftBank's efforts to combine the chip designs of its top bet Arm Holdings with the production expertise of its latest acquisition, British AI chipmaker Graphcore. However, discussions collapsed as SoftBank believed Intel could not meet its demands for volume and speed.

Softbank now in talks with TSMC to handle the manufacturing.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Senior member
Mar 1, 2024
701
1,122
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Report:

Intel was in talks with Softbank to manufacture a new AI processor, but Softbank pulled out.



Softbank now in talks with TSMC to handle the manufacturing.
To add:

SoftBank has blamed Intel for the collapse of the talks, claiming Intel was incapable of meeting its demands for volume and speed, the report said, adding that SoftBank is now focusing on discussions with Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co (TSMC), the world's largest contract chipmaker.

 
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Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
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Jul 27, 2020
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@Khato my good man! Haven't seen you post in a while. What say you about Intel's current predicament and what are you expecting in their future?
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,249
321
136
@Khato my good man! Haven't seen you post in a while.
Guilty. It's most fun to post when there's some manner of insight to provide to the conversation. Lately there's been more cause to lurk and enjoy some popcorn. But talk of Intel's Air Shuttle caught my attention as I've always enjoyed that operation and was a bit saddened by it being on the chopping block. Both their 'hightech' call sign and their N286* tail numbers are great. But apparently they went from operating mostly-full flights before 2020 to mostly-empty flights since... aka it hasn't made financial sense to continue the operation for some time now.

There's no question that Intel's current financials aren't good. Long term prospects are really a question of whether the current AI spending spree continues or not. If it does then Intel's not going to turn things around any time soon - server CPU sales will remain suppressed by the customers spending as much as possible on AI accelerators, Gaudi 3 might get Intel out of just being a 'value option' AI accelerator but probably not as the concern of the more specialized architecture not being applicable to a paradigm shift in AI models remains, and Falcon Shores isn't coming to the rescue for what, another year or so? Going by Intel's recent luck that'll be about the time the current AI bubble pops.

The layoff aspect is the less interesting subject - they're just two years early on their decennial layoff schedule. No, not a very good joke, but their two previous large layoffs were 2006 and 2016. And Pat had been a bit overly enthusiastic in growing the head count and letting fanciful projects persist. Think it was something like 10k employees added in 2021 and 2022 each. And the Royal core is probably the best example of a fanciful project that went on forever with no results - starting during Jim Keller's tenure should have resulted in silicon around now. But that's what happens when goals of 2x the performance of GLC are set. I'm hoping Intel just cuts projects of that sort and doesn't abandon endeavors with actual promise like silicon photonics and quantum computing.
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,950
1,603
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I had been looking at product expectations. Expectations for Arrow Lake after the Raptor Lake fiasco seem optimistic.

So, for that, I will postpone my PC building plans until I see some reviews for the motherboard releases, and hear more about the processors. Maybe -- early in 2025 I'll be ready for a final pull on the checkout string.
 

Mahboi

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2024
1,035
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What are we to take from your post here? Humblebrag?
Mostly...sadness.
I don't think there's a lot to brag about when you're witnessing a 4 year long crash finally throwing wagons off.

Also, I hate to rub it in, but we've reached that point:

At this point, ARL and Skymont have to do it. They just have to. I'm holding big hopes for Skymont. Give me 8 core Zen 3 performance at 15-20W. I want to see it.
If they don't, it's really going to be Intel's My Way. I don't think EMR and SRF have the chops to knock off Zen 5.
 

DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
1,211
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Intel credit rating lowered to BBB+.
Only BBB?

The US government to GDP ratio is 120%, and Intel revenue to short term debt ratio is 90%. They have $50 billion revenue with $46 billion debt, in a time where the interest rates are rising. Ah it looks like there's nothing outstanding about this company. Just an average company following the average of the country which is at a terrible, terrible scenario right now.

It's mindboggling how they could not forsee this. Debt-fueled madness, and what did they do with it rather than paying it off? Paid dividends and did stock buybacks.
And the Royal core is probably the best example of a fanciful project that went on forever with no results - starting during Jim Keller's tenure should have resulted in silicon around now. But that's what happens when goals of 2x the performance of GLC are set.
And the stupid thing is cancelled. People with insider info was so confident I thought maybe there was some chance, but such moonshot projects are often eclipsed by more steady projects.

I had doubts about Royal Core from the beginning. Now I read that it was a 24-wide issue with Value Prediction and other never tried features? And some who left the projects say it didn't seem hell of a lot better than both P and E cores using current SpecInt figures? I assume at that rate it would have been another Willamette.

The E core team should be their focus. They actually do big core changes and new ideas and actually execute on it. Has been for more than ten years. Still there's huge doubt among many cause it's just a "cinememe" core right? 30% every two years? Nope not enough. Clustered decode, something that Tremont from 2020 does better than 2024's Zen 5? Nah, just something catching up with the "big core" that's it.

Try actually look at the history rather than relying fixed assumptions. Again, there will be a point in the future where the E core team will become fat and lazy but it's not now. When everything seems hunky-dory and invincible that's when the decline will happen, but it's not now.
 
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DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
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Going by Intel's recent luck that'll be about the time the current AI bubble pops.
This always happens. As a prudent business you are supposed to prepare for it in advance. If you are relying on the whole of the market doing always well, you are bound to fail.

In good times they optimize for nothing but dollars, so in times of bad they got nothing to show for, so instead of what the investors say such as "price to market is low" or some nonsense, they'll get ignored first.

Nvidia, AMD and other companies that are doing well will do a lot worse too, but they have lot more to go before they drop to a point where we worry about them.

Paul Otellini was said to be a good CEO after Conroe. Actually we can see he was a short-term sighted CEO and responsible for current Intel woes.

1. He was the one that rejected Apple iPhone using Intel chips.
2. Under him the most promising person got kicked out. Pat Gelsinger was fired under him with the Larrabbee debacle. Ok, you don't fire him. You should have reduced his salary or his position but kept him instead. These kind of brain-dead decisions are unfortunately very common. Hence the endless distrust and security issues we have now.

Who became a successor that replaced Otellini? That's right Brian Kraznich.
 

Doug S

Platinum Member
Feb 8, 2020
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Only BBB?

The US government to GDP ratio is 120%, and Intel revenue to short term debt ratio is 90%. They have $50 billion revenue with $46 billion debt, in a time where the interest rates are rising. Ah it looks like there's nothing outstanding about this company. Just an average company following the average of the country which is at a terrible, terrible scenario right now.

It's mindboggling how they could not forsee this. Debt-fueled madness, and what did they do with it rather than paying it off? Paid dividends and did stock buybacks.

Little of Intel's short term debt is in the form of bonds. Only $3.75 billion matures in 2025, so they aren't particularly interest rate sensitive on their current holdings (obviously it matters for new issues, especially after the downgrade) They have 2 1/2 times that much in accounts payable (and that's a historically typical figure for them, operating fabs is an expensive business) by way of comparison.

I agree they have seen the writing on the wall and suspended dividends and buybacks a couple years ago. Companies are always afraid to do that because it will be viewed negatively by Wall Street. In the long run it won't matter, but unfortunately executive compensation schemes at most companies favors short term thinking.
 

DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
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I agree they have seen the writing on the wall and suspended dividends and buybacks a couple years ago.
What? No they haven't. They did not cut until the profits started collapsing.

The BoD is a big problem with this company as well.
In the long run it won't matter, but unfortunately executive compensation schemes at most companies favors short term thinking.
What should have been done is rather than laying off people, pay should have been reduced, with executives over $200K getting a bigger reduction until it's fixed. To work the whole place have to put in an idea of loyalty and rewarding them for it. For experience, for good work, for going through the hard times, etc.

Really especially for Intel there's no stability here. From a company that went through meteoric rise up until the 90's, and the CEOs which seem like rolling a dice in a casino, how can you trust anything? And I can't believe the infighting still exists. Politics and they aren't even that big by profit standards anymore.

See, here's the thing. Because people in general only come in with enough pay, thus you pay the CEO or the executives lower and you have no talent wanting to come in. Thus you are forced not to do that, and you have to layoff people. The current setup eventually creates a collapse in confidence for the whole system. No one trusts anything.

No amount of 40-digit passwords with various combos, or new encryption standards or hardware will fix a deliberate leak by disgruntled employees. Security issues are at the core, which is people, not the tech. NDAs are just an agreement and piece of paper. It's worth as much as the people that value it.

The whole system is flawed. I mean all of it.
 
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Jul 27, 2020
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Intel sales and marketing group to cut costs by 35% by the end of the year.
Wonder if AMD is going to hire some of them. AMD will think, hey, they were behind good Intel sales but in reality, they will be hiring trojans who will still be loyal to Intel and they will destroy AMD even more with their marketing. I wonder if the current state of AMD marketing is due to a lot of ex-Intel hires. I bet every week or so, these obedient Intel zombies report back to HQ and say, "Look Papa Pat! This is what I did to cause further decline in AMD's reputation!" and Papa Pat throws them a cookie. "Yes, my children. Go back and do the Lord's work! I await further good news from you and soon you shall find amongst us a permanent position excellent enough to cause envy in the most humble of hearts!".
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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Intel sales and marketing group to cut costs by 35% by the end of the year.

The following quote is why I will not accept Pudget Systems as a trustworthy source for anything related to Intel. And firmly believe their failure rate charts are nothing more than gaslighting and self promotion. Board of advisors may not be a directly paid position, but Pudget undoubtedly receives contra revenue and/or other forms of payment from Intel.

For decades, channel partners and distributors have been a critical way Intel sells its products to customers, and that hasn’t changed in recent years.

In the company’s annual 10-K filing with the U.S. Exchange and Securities Commission from January 2024, for example, Intel said it sells a “significant portion” of its products through “third parties, such as distributors, value-added resellers, and channel partners […] as well as OEMs and ODMs.” Cloud service providers also represent a significant business for the company, Intel said elsewhere in the filing.
This news report makes me think that all of the kickbacks and bribes are no longer enough to keep clients from buying better hardware from other vendors now. The line about how they could afford it when they had 90%+ market share speaks volumes.
 

inquiss

Senior member
Oct 13, 2010
250
354
136
The following quote is why I will not accept Pudget Systems as a trustworthy source for anything related to Intel. And firmly believe their failure rate charts are nothing more than gaslighting and self promotion. Board of advisors may not be a directly paid position, but Pudget undoubtedly receives contra revenue and/or other forms of payment from Intel.


This news report makes me think that all of the kickbacks and bribes are no longer enough to keep clients from buying better hardware from other vendors now. The line about how they could afford it when they had 90%+ market share speaks volumes.
Yes, it's very interesting times. Turin looks to be a killer product for enterprise and hyperscalers alike and is timed with intel reducing their boots on the ground for selling to commercial and big reductions in cashflow to be able to afford kickbacks. Interesting times..not saying it will happen, but the potential for Turin to take significant share is there.
 
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