Clearwater looks like a decent product, a good Arm competitor.
BTW, what's up with rumors that Intel cancelled future E-Core based server product past Clearwater Forrest? Some rumors regarding the demise of the E-Cores and that development team.
You really don't think Clear Water Forest is an interesting product with potential? Lunar Lake?
That's possible, though outside interests haven't got that kind of control over the company yet. They own a large chunk of a few fabs and that's it. If they can form a shareholder's coalition, however . . . or just buy them out while the share prices are low . . .I will say that I think the execs are concerned that PE smells blood in the water and is angling to kill Intel for a quick buck. Which is causing the current panic moreso than their financial situation.
Clearwater looks like a decent product, a good Arm competitor.
BTW, what's up with rumors that Intel cancelled future E-Core based server product past Clearwater Forrest? Some rumors regarding the demise of the E-Cores and that development team.
This is my thoughts exactly. Pat could have been more aggressive with cuts, but Im sure he did what he thought was necessary at the time. If there is an emergency meeting, its possible another huge round of cuts will be announced. I still think Pat is the right guy for technical strategy, but I'd hope he has outside consultants looking for places to trim for him.On the strategy front, I can't fault him. He couldn't let go of GPUs because that's the future and he would condemn Intel if he did anyway. CPUs were obviously the main goal to repair. Getting to a more financially viable node (heard somewhere that at some point an Intel node of equivalent performance to TSMC's was FIVE TIMES more expensive) was paramount since Intel's "Eternal N°1 Always Growing Never Weakening" position was getting battered since Zen 2.
On the "boss" front, it's more subtle. Perhaps he had good cause to try and avoid breakage. Perhaps sounding all the alarm bells in a company that had lost a lot of its engineers and goodwill and was getting diffed in salary returns by Nvidia or Apple and even AMD later on would've just caused all the remaining good people to leave the ship and for the rats to hold on to the seats. Perhaps he deeply underestimated the problems and just felt like the beast needed some tweaking and redirecting instead of a full blown revolution.
Whether it was weakness/meekness on his part, or underestimating the depth of the internal damage, whether it was Intel's size that turned it into a Holy Roman Empire of modern times with little lords that kept doing things their way and ignoring him, whether it was that he just couldn't do anything since the money river was already running dry and the cards had been dealt before his time and he could just preside over the slow crumbling, whether it was that every rat would've turned against him...I don't know, we'd need Intel insiders to tell us.
But I'm getting pretty sick of people going "Pat's the problem". Intel had a zillion problems. If anything, he tried fixing them. I would blame Krzanich 100 times before Pat. Even Bob Swan held the ship as well as he could and found someone to replace him that would fit better. If there's one thing I'd blame on Pat is that he held a monster under its reigns and treated it too kindly, if Intel was to die anyway, he should have roughed them up before they would just expire quietly. Seems that now it's getting out of his hands slowly.
Trust me. Those consultants will do more harm than good. Outsiders can never judge thousands of individuals in a workforce accurately to determine which ones are the most productive and crucial to the company's bottomline. This was supposed to be a critical function of HR but almost every company's HR dept manages to attract complete bozos who care nothing about improving the lives and productivity of the company's employees. They don't even try to understand what tasks each employee is assigned and if they are overworked or overburdened and instead just give complete control to the employees' managers to EFF UP the lives of hardworking employees.but I'd hope he has outside consultants looking for places to trim for him.
Intel has 4 large fabs IIRC - Oregon, Arizona, Ireland, Israel. It's not exactly low balling to convert them to EUV capacity. Enough capacity so that Intel would not have to go to TSMC. And maybe a little extra to start accepting outside customers.I don't think there were many choices there.
Intel can't afford to lowball things either. Not when it was playing to stay competitive vs TSMC/AMD.
Very disappointing if true. The E core team seems the only part of Intel right now that has their act together. Intel is in a viscous spiral right now of needing some home run product, but because of financial hardship is cutting so many projects that could actually be that home run. I never would have though it possible, but I think Intel is in serious danger as a company right now. At least AMD in the darkest Bulldozer days had the console revenue to keep them going. Intel doesn't even have that.Clearwater looks like a decent product, a good Arm competitor.
BTW, what's up with rumors that Intel cancelled future E-Core based server product past Clearwater Forrest? Some rumors regarding the demise of the E-Cores and that development team.
I read that its not selling. And I can understand. If you wanted a server and you choices were a cut down features CPU that is efficient or another server that is just as efficient, but full featured (bergamo) which would you pick ?Very disappointing if true. The E core team seems the only part of Intel right now that has their act together. Intel is in a viscous spiral right now of needing some home run product, but because of financial hardship is cutting so many projects that could actually be that home run. I never would have though it possible, but I think Intel is in serious danger as a company right now. At least AMD in the darkest Bulldozer days had the console revenue to keep them going. Intel doesn't even have that.
Very disappointing if true. The E core team seems the only part of Intel right now that has their act together. Intel is in a viscous spiral right now of needing some home run product, but because of financial hardship is cutting so many projects that could actually be that home run. I never would have though it possible, but I think Intel is in serious danger as a company right now. At least AMD in the darkest Bulldozer days had the console revenue to keep them going. Intel doesn't even have that.
Intel has 4 large fabs IIRC - Oregon, Arizona, Ireland, Israel. It's not exactly low balling to convert them to EUV capacity. Enough capacity so that Intel would not have to go to TSMC. And maybe a little extra to start accepting outside customers.
It's almost as if it wasn't enough of a challenge: to escape death, and live. Gelsinger quadrupled the magnitude of the hurdle and set the goal to emerge as a world leading foundry.
Rumors on reddit from what appears to be ex-Intel employees that Intel will only have 1 CPU design team going forward.Clearwater looks like a decent product, a good Arm competitor.
BTW, what's up with rumors that Intel cancelled future E-Core based server product past Clearwater Forrest? Some rumors regarding the demise of the E-Cores and that development team.
Got a link on that?Rumors on reddit from what appears to be ex-Intel employees that Intel will only have 1 CPU design team going forward.
Other sources are saying NO, so I wouldn't take that seriously.Rumors on reddit from what appears to be ex-Intel employees that Intel will only have 1 CPU design team going forward.
Cause Zen 5 is so awesome that they couldn't get something which Tremont got it working 4 years ago.I read that its not selling. And I can understand. If you wanted a server and you choices were a cut down features CPU that is efficient or another server that is just as efficient, but full featured (bergamo) which would you pick ?
Pat made one critical mistake. Him and his management team completely flubbed on future revenue projections. They didn't see after the lockdowns were over the computer demand would plummet. So they overinvested, didn't cut sharebuybacks and dividends to pay off their massive debt, and put it into fabs when they were doing good.This is my thoughts exactly. Pat could have been more aggressive with cuts, but Im sure he did what he thought was necessary at the time.
They had multiple hangovers. In that analogy, Intel is an alcoholic in his 50's with serious liver problems and still drinking like a madman. He needs to stop drinking immediately and even that may not be enough, because the "Liver" is at a critical point.They got drunk on their success, now comes the hangover. Noone wants a monopoly, be it Intel or AMD, so here's hoping they will rise from the ashes that they will most definitely burn themselfs into
We still have Nvidia vs AMD vs Apple. It could be enough to sustain competition and a rising tide.I hate to say it, but I think Intel WILL fail. I see no wonderful products, no real vison for products that might change that, and still the "too big a company with too many managers and not enough workers" mentality. I had hope until recently, but I will now admit, I see no other alternative than failure. I actually hope I am wrong. we NEED 2 big companies to make competition work !
Neither of them are competing with AMD in x86 though.We still have Nvidia vs AMD vs Apple. It could be enough to sustain competition and a rising tide.
My take on x86 is that the users can choose whether to do their computer work on x86 or an alternative. Every year, there are fewer and fewer spaces where x86 is the only option.Neither of them are competing with AMD in x86 though.
There are options, but x86 is still by far the best platform for PC gaming though, which is my primary interest.My take on x86 is that the users can choose whether to do their computer work on x86 or an alternative. Every year, there are fewer and fewer spaces where x86 is the only option.
Qualcomm and Apple are competing in laptops already, and I'm sure other ARM companies will join soon.Neither of them are competing with AMD in x86 though.
Wasn't mentioned already ?
Oh boy.... AMD and ARM will have an edge...Rumors on reddit from what appears to be ex-Intel employees that Intel will only have 1 CPU design team going forward.