Intel Broadwell Thread

[jpiniero]

Of course, there didn't use to be the diverging of product lines that there is today.

I think the single-threaded performance gap will grow as well. What I think will eventually happen is that HEDT chips will have strong cores alongside weak cores, in order to mitigate this (talking on-die, not Xeon Phi).

The divergence seems to be between 2P+ servers and everything else though. I'm actually expecting HEDT/1P WS line to remain client cores.

Frankly, I'm a bit baffled that Intel doesn't already do this, although I guess the expansion of the GPU is sort of similar. I wonder why they don't go more of the fixed function route with the GPU, add small cores for to take care of high-bandwidth, general-purpose compute, and then have big cores for latency sensitive applications.

Windows doesn't support anything similar to big.LITTLE so regardless of what Intel thinks of the idea it's not going to happen. I had thought of the idea of separating out the compute cores to get AVX3 out of them for compatibility's sake but that might be the extent of it.

 

[III-V]

The divergence seems to be between 2P+ servers and everything else though. I'm actually expecting HEDT/1P WS line to remain client cores.

I actually don't pay much attention to the server side of things, so you could very well be correct.

Windows doesn't support anything similar to big.LITTLE so regardless of what Intel thinks of the idea it's not going to happen. I had thought of the idea of separating out the compute cores to get AVX3 out of them for compatibility's sake but that might be the extent of it.

Somewhere, somebody's going to do the work. There's profit to be had. It's just too obvious of a low-hanging fruit.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The divergence seems to be between 2P+ servers and everything else though. I'm actually expecting HEDT/1P WS line to remain client cores.

HEDT comes from 2P parts. E3 Xeons (Only LGA115x parts) is client cores, everything else is the new server cores.

 

[jpiniero]

HEDT comes from 2P parts. E3 Xeons (Only LGA115x parts) is client cores, everything else is the new server cores.

That looks like it is changing with Purley vs Skylake-E. But we will see.

 

[ozzy702]

Any news on new motherboards being released with the Broadwell-e launch?

 

[DrMrLordX]

It didn't use to be that way, I'm fairly certain. They used to be released in relative tandem.

Actually, LGA1366 was out before LGA1156, so back then, HEDT came first.

 

[superstition]

Intel can withhold whatever they like......they OWN it.

Isn't this the authority fallacy? What I wrote has little to do with what Intel can or can't do. What I wrote about was the silliness of asking people to spend more for less.

Less advanced cores for more money. That's silly, regardless of what Intel can or can't do. I will happily change my opinion when, and only when, I see a reason posted to.

Plus, Intel can't get away with nonsense like this when people talk about it and give them the feedback that it won't fly. As long as people don't talk about it and don't give them that feedback they'll keep trying to sell products that are not a good value for buyers.

A corporation's mission is to enrich shareholders. A customer's job is to make that corporation give them more product for their money, even though the corporation wants to provide as little as possible.

I DO see what you're saying. From a certain perspective, it doesn't make sense to release something that's not equal with what's currently available. But from the other perspective, some of the features on what's currently available may not be as important to certain aspects of the market.

Improved core performance is absolutely important. Otherwise why not just stick with Haswell E?

They may be concerned with more cores for their particular needs. That doesn't make the product inferior......that makes the product what those people are looking for.

It does.

The point of Skylake's cores is that they have efficiency improvements over Broadwell and Haswell.

It is a step forward from what they may already have.

It's not enough of a step to justify its existence. Broadwell E should not be sold.

Nobody is twisting their arm to upgrade. If they upgrade, it's because they chose to do so.

This is also rather immaterial. They can't chose to upgrade to Skylake E if it's not on the market for sale.

Just don't get upset when people don't agree with your opinion. They have opinions of their own and while theirs may be different, it doesn't mean that their opinion is anymore important than yours. It also doesn't mean that your opinion is right and that theirs is wrong.....or vice versa. Just means we see things differently. We'll have to agree to disagree. Just my .02...

I'm not upset at all. But, it's also fallacious to treat opinions equally. An opinion's worth is defined by its proximity to truth, its accuracy.

It's going to be a very hard sell to tell people to spend a lot on inferior cores. It makes the "just get the E platform if you're a serious enthusiast and want solder for efficient heat transfer" argument even weaker than it already was, too.

 

[superstition]

If Intel has any sense they'll give Broadwell E EDRAM so it has some sort of reason to exist versus Skylake, since it seems clear that Intel is withholding Skylake + EDRAM for Kaby Lake.

 

[Arachnotronic]

You can? In the US? Though you just said you couldn't.

Load up: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117553&cm_re=5775c-_-19-117-553-_-Product

They have plenty in stock now, mine should be here later today :thumbsup:

Also, I bought a Broadwell based system for the in-laws over xmas, iMac with an i5-5575R. Didn't have a hard time getting it at all from Apple.com

 

[Arachnotronic]

If Intel has any sense they'll give Broadwell E EDRAM so it has some sort of reason to exist versus Skylake, since it seems clear that Intel is withholding Skylake + EDRAM for Kaby Lake.

eDRAM isn't really worthwhile for server workloads, AFAICT. What you really want are Xeon E5/E7 chips with a ton of HMC on-board :thumbsup:

 

[superstition]

eDRAM isn't really worthwhile for server workloads, AFAICT. What you really want are Xeon E5/E7 chips with a ton of HMC on-board :thumbsup:

I was just trying to give Broadwell E some reason to exist.

 

[Arachnotronic]

I was just trying to give Broadwell E some reason to exist.

It has more IPC than the Haswell-E and you can buy it in even higher core count config, what other reasons do you need for it to exist?

 

[CHADBOGA]

It has more IPC than the Haswell-E and you can buy it in even higher core count config, what other reasons do you need for it to exist?

25% more cores at 50% more cost. :'(

 

[zentan]

It has more IPC than the Haswell-E and you can buy it in even higher core count config, what other reasons do you need for it to exist?

Exactly,it's a progress in IPC however small it may be,not to mention it will have a significantly better perf/W than Haswell-E.
Why do people always forget Intel's HEDT line is nothing but their throwaway server chips.And this line-up doesn't get anything extra as far as package is concerned so no chance of an edram,besides it would be pointless for CPU-only HEDT part for most people and cases.
Their server line is adding more cores w/ 14nm.People can have complain about price,but at least from the looks of it,it won't be a regression for the hexacore and octacore parts.Decacore pricing might dissapoint to some
if it as steep as reported to be.Broadwell-E when it arrives would just make Haswell-E less relevant.

 

[NTMBK]

25% more cores at 50% more cost. :'(

It's the high end, performance/$ always falls off a cliff. See also Titan X.

 

[CHADBOGA]

It's the high end, performance/$ always falls off a cliff. See also Titan X.

Not always.

Intel introduced 8 core Haswell-E at the same price as the previous generation 6 core model.

So with Haswell-E, you got 33% more cores for $0 more.

 

[dark zero]

It's the high end, performance/$ always falls off a cliff. See also Titan X.

Not at all... And didn't you meant Titan Z?

 

[pj-]

I was just trying to give Broadwell E some reason to exist.

How about so people who invested in the X99 platform aren't completely screwed over?

The 8 and 10 core BW-E parts may be overpriced this year, but what about 2-3 years from now when I get the itch to upgrade my lowly 5280k? That's 33-66% improvement in MT (not including the minor IPC improvements and faster base clocks) for much less of an investment than moving to the latest HEDT platform.

 

[Sweepr]

Looks like Broadwell-K is alive and well, available @ close to MSRP in many popular stores. The cancellation rumor turned out to be fake.

Next step Skylake-H 4C/8T GT4e and then Skylake-S 4C/8T GT4e for desktops later this year. Long live eDRAM.

 

[Aristotelian]

How about so people who invested in the X99 platform aren't completely screwed over?

The 8 and 10 core BW-E parts may be overpriced this year, but what about 2-3 years from now when I get the itch to upgrade my lowly 5280k? That's 33-66% improvement in MT (not including the minor IPC improvements and faster base clocks) for much less of an investment than moving to the latest HEDT platform.

Or how about for people still on an overclocked Sandybridge? The argument that Broadwell has inferior cores to Skylake means nothing to me unless I'm making a comparison between Broadwell and Skylake, or Broadwell-E and Skylake-E. But we can't do that yet. So I'll be buying a 10 core Broadwell-E this year and I guess those who wait for Skylake-E can make fun of me for buying a faster processor. Good for them. I'm happy to make gains as soon as I can.

And questioning the 'upgrade path for Haswell-E' - I mean, does a 5960x user already need a CPU upgrade?

 

[ozzy702]

Or how about for people still on an overclocked Sandybridge? The argument that Broadwell has inferior cores to Skylake means nothing to me unless I'm making a comparison between Broadwell and Skylake, or Broadwell-E and Skylake-E. But we can't do that yet. So I'll be buying a 10 core Broadwell-E this year and I guess those who wait for Skylake-E can make fun of me for buying a faster processor. Good for them. I'm happy to make gains as soon as I can.

And questioning the 'upgrade path for Haswell-E' - I mean, does a 5960x user already need a CPU upgrade?

Agreed. To answer your last question, in many cases, yes, they do need/want an upgrade. It really just depends on the intended usage. I'm not sure why everyone assumes that the only usage a HEDT platform has is gaming. Some of us want to game AND have superior experiences with productivity software, etc.

I'm very tempted to just go all out this time around and not need an upgrade for another 6-8 years. Really, when amortized over the course of 6+ years even a $1500 chip isn't all that expensive. There are a lot of other things I spend a whole lot more on and get less out of.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Looks like Broadwell-K is alive and well, available @ close to MSRP in many popular stores. The cancellation rumor turned out to be fake.

Next step Skylake-H 4C/8T GT4e and then Skylake-S 4C/8T GT4e for desktops later this year. Long live eDRAM.

Yep, looks like they are yielding at reasonable levels now! Mine's in the mail, will be here today.

Look for a thread today or tomorrow with some gaming benchmarks/impressions on the iGPU (I plan to use it w/ iGPU).

 

[Qwertilot]

Well hopefully sort of short lived edram because they've moved on to something even nicer HBM style things

Long live big iGPUs Nice to see it presumably selling reasonably or you imagine they'd have quietly dropped it.

 

[zir_blazer]

Looks like Broadwell-K is alive and well, available @ close to MSRP in many popular stores. The cancellation rumor turned out to be fake.

Next step Skylake-H 4C/8T GT4e and then Skylake-S 4C/8T GT4e for desktops later this year. Long live eDRAM.

How does it feels to know that you will have to wait for Kaby Lake release in order to get a Skylake with eDRAM? Sure, Skylake with eDRAM would win, but you're missing the minor Kaby Lake GPU enhancements.
It is THAT hard to get a latest generation product with all the goodies? Why you always have to do sidegrades and tradeoffs?

 

[ehume]

It is THAT hard to get a latest generation product with all the goodies? Why you always have to do sidegrades and tradeoffs?

Marketing 102?