Intel Broadwell Thread

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witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,899
193
106
Duty Cycle Control only helps with reducing power use in low utilization situations- it won't help when the GPU is used in a performance intensive situation.

Example: If you have 24 EUs that have to operate at 600MHz, you could have 48 EUs at 300MHz at lower voltage.
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
Example: If you have 24 EUs that have to operate at 600MHz, you could have 48 EUs at 300MHz at lower voltage.

I thought DCC was more about having bursts of 600MHz, followed by bursts of 0MHz (i.e. power gated off), very rapidly? (I may be confusing it with something else.) But yeah, that definitely lines up with what AtenRa was saying: "Those SKUs cannot use 100% of that iGPU performance capabilities." It's about power efficiency, not flat out performance.

(Spending die area on more shaders to drop clocks is pretty common in GPUs. It's the entire basis of the mobile GPU market, for a start )
 

NTMBK

Lifer
Nov 14, 2011
10,269
5,134
136
AMD doesnt have 4K decode ability in any APU nor do any AMD product have HDMI 2.0.

Pretty sure that Kabini has HDMI 2.0? But yeah, I'd forgotten about the h.264 decoder not supporting 4k until Tonga! That's definitely a no go.
 

Dufus

Senior member
Sep 20, 2010
675
119
101
Really, all those high-end iGPUs at 15W TDP are meaningless. Those SKUs cannot use 100% of that iGPU performance capabilities.
Easy enough to run them at higher power if the hardware is up to it although that's not really what these processors were meant for. For instance here's my i7-4700MQ thinking it's using less than 4W while running Linpack AVX2. Less than core-m . Temperature is a bit of a giveaway though.



The shocking reality is that it is a 47W SKU running more than 70W with less than default voltage and 2 extra bins.
 

witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,899
193
106
I thought DCC was more about having bursts of 600MHz, followed by bursts of 0MHz (i.e. power gated off), very rapidly? (I may be confusing it with something else.) But yeah, that definitely lines up with what AtenRa was saying: "Those SKUs cannot use 100% of that iGPU performance capabilities." It's about power efficiency, not flat out performance.

(Spending die area on more shaders to drop clocks is pretty common in GPUs. It's the entire basis of the mobile GPU market, for a start )

But those bursts will result in some net frequency; it's a feature to reduce power up to a certain frequency-voltage.

We'll see as far as performance is concerned, but I expect the difference to be larger than Haswell GT2 vs 3.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
They will have the same problem. They are using 14nm with 30% less power usage than 22nm but at the same time they increased performance capabilities by more than 20-30% over Haswell.

14 nm is more than 30% more efficient. That number comes from more than a year ago on a premature process.

Example: If you have 24 EUs that have to operate at 600MHz, you could have 48 EUs at 300MHz at lower voltage.

But now you have leakage on 48 EU.

Easy enough to run them at higher power if the hardware is up to it although that's not really what these processors were meant for. For instance here's my i7-4700MQ thinking it's using less than 4W while running Linpack AVX2. Less than core-m . Temperature is a bit of a giveaway though.



The shocking reality is that it is a 47W SKU running more than 70W with less than default voltage and 2 extra bins.

Core and thread usage is ~0%. The program isn't running.

You are also not running stock clocks on a locked CPU (partially unlocked). Likely the settings and the bios are having problems.
 

Dufus

Senior member
Sep 20, 2010
675
119
101
Core and thread usage is ~0%. The program isn't running.

You are also not running stock clocks on a locked CPU (partially unlocked). Likely the settings and the bios are having problems.
HT degrades AVX, the threads you see are core x - thread 1, thread 0 is not shown. Can run it again showing those threads but it should be evident that you do not get 170GFlops with 0% usage.

No problem with BIOS settings, I modified them myself.

Here you go, I've thrown HWMon in as well, still is buggy with negative offsets I see.

 
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EnamResu

Junior Member
Dec 7, 2014
3
0
0
14 nm is more than 30% more efficient. That number comes from more than a year ago on a premature process.


A friend of mine tested i7-4500U, it does 2.6ghz load at 15w (under prime). Measured by CPU package sensor, if it shows power accurately and prime load is comparable to cinebench, then the difference is not that big:

~11.7W(broadwell) vs 15w(haswell), both at 2.6ghz.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/Notebooks/Sonstiges/Prozessoren/Broadwell/graph_cinebench.png
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,869
136
Baytrail vs Broadwell.

Again, you prove how little you know about what is going on.

Lol, you had a pic above if ever you did need a Haswell for comparison, but neverless saying that i know little is somewhat short, so you pretend that you know better, then show us, get the numbers that contradict me out, i m curious...

 
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kimmel

Senior member
Mar 28, 2013
248
0
41

Baytrail vs Core M. These don't share the same process. At all. One is a SOC process, one is a HP process. Different design rules, different performance, different everything. You may as well be comparing numbers from TSMC and GF and IBM and drawing conclusions about Intel process characteristics.

The other link is a bunch of screenshots with more data that can't meaningfully be correlated. Stop generating walls of text and random screenshots and then fabricating conclusions that have nothing to do with either the text or the screenshots.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
HT degrades AVX, the threads you see are core x - thread 1, thread 0 is not shown. Can run it again showing those threads but it should be evident that you do not get 170GFlops with 0% usage.

No problem with BIOS settings, I modified them myself.

Here you go, I've thrown HWMon in as well, still is buggy with negative offsets I see.


And I still think your settings are wrong or something is messed up with your computer.

That was the theory, in practice it s 30%, at least, less efficient than their 22nm.

I don't understand this person. Does anyone understand this person? 30% less efficient than 22nm. You are straight up stating this.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,869
136
Baytrail vs Core M. These don't share the same process. At all. One is a SOC process, one is a HP process. Different design rules, different performance, different everything. You may as well be comparing numbers from TSMC and GF and IBM and drawing conclusions about Intel process characteristics.

The other link is a bunch of screenshots with more data that can't meaningfully be correlated. Stop generating walls of text and random screenshots and then fabricating conclusions that have nothing to do with either the text or the screenshots.

There s other datas if you want to dig the thing, 1.0V at 2.6 for core M and 3.5 for Haswell, is that enough or do you need me to make your homework.?.
 

III-V

Senior member
Oct 12, 2014
678
1
41
There s other datas if you want to dig the thing, 1.0V at 2.6 for core M and 3.5 for Haswell, is that enough or do you need me to make your homework.?.
You made the argument, you need to do the work to back it up.
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,172
3,869
136
You made the argument, you need to do the work to back it up.

It s backed, by the definition of the numbers above, now it s possible that some people dont understand their meanings, to wich i can only answer that i m not extracting conclusions out of wild guesses but out of basic electric laws that cant be denied.
 

Dufus

Senior member
Sep 20, 2010
675
119
101
And I still think your settings are wrong or something is messed up with your computer.
It's really quite simple. People are complaining that the lower power CPU's are throttling too much and not able to sustain maximum performance. Read the first quote before my original attachment. By tricking the CPU into believing it is running at a much lower power than it really is then no throttling will occur providing cooling and power delivery is sufficient.

In the second attachment you will see "TEMP", yellow means a logged TCC event which is set at 97C, red means currently active. Other indicators are there for PP0, PP1, PL1, PL2, EDP (Current or PL3), PROCHOT, VRTHERM. None of these are triggered.
 
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kimmel

Senior member
Mar 28, 2013
248
0
41
There s other datas if you want to dig the thing, 1.0V at 2.6 for core M and 3.5 for Haswell, is that enough or do you need me to make your homework.?.

More bad assumptions. I would like nothing more than to have the data you are looking for as it's fascinating data. I just haven't seen any even remotely rigorous testing that we could use to draw these conclusions. I'm not saying you are wrong. Just that you are drawing conclusions from incomplete data.

We'll hopefully see more relevant data when the BDW-U and desktop processors come out when we have a slightly more applicable comparison.
 

Kallogan

Senior member
Aug 2, 2010
340
5
76
Seems odd that Broadwell only "partially" decode h265 through igpu when upcoming snapdragons will fully decode it.

No real hevc hardware decoding until Slylake seems a long way.

It's not like hevc is mainstream yet but still.
 
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