Intel Broadwell Thread

[frythecpuofbender]

Question: Any chance we will see any of the 15W Broadwell Us in tablets?

Seems Core M is a bit underpowered for my taste.
I wish some manufacturers would actually build tablets with a copper case like the Intel Llama Mountain prototype.
http://scr3.golem.de/screenshots/1409/Core-M-Benchmarks/Copper.jpg

 

[Cogman]

Anyone else feeling slightly disappointed in what broadwell offers to the table? I mean, a faster GPU is nice, but beyond that little/no CPU performance increases and little to no power savings... it feels like a weak release to me. If I have haswell hardware today there is very little enticing me to go grab broadwell tomorrow.

At least with haswell while performance was mostly unaffected, power consumption took a dive.

But to have 2 full generations of CPUs with little to no performance increase is a little disappointing. Maybe I'm getting crotchety, but I miss the good old days of regular 10->20% performance bumps every generation.

 

[beginner99]

You are absolutely spot on with the lack of H.265 in Gen. 8. This is a pretty serious feature omission that everybody from Apple to MediaTek has in next generation SoCs. Intel remedies this with Skylake, though.

But is it a bad omission for Intel? probably rather the contrary. Let's be honest, until h.265 becomes mainstream it take easily 5 years. And then if broadwell doesn't run it many people will actually buy a new PC they might not have bought if it would run it. More sales for intel.

Given current progress in CPUs you can easily keep them for 5-10 years. That's not good for intel if you quickly support every new spec. planned obsoletion.

 

[tential]

Anyone else feeling slightly disappointed in what broadwell offers to the table? I mean, a faster GPU is nice, but beyond that little/no CPU performance increases and little to no power savings... it feels like a weak release to me. If I have haswell hardware today there is very little enticing me to go grab broadwell tomorrow.

At least with haswell while performance was mostly unaffected, power consumption took a dive.

But to have 2 full generations of CPUs with little to no performance increase is a little disappointing. Maybe I'm getting crotchety, but I miss the good old days of regular 10->20% performance bumps every generation.

Because when you ignore delivering what the market actually wants you end up not being in business?
Market is calling for lower power consumption and "cheap just good enough" devices.
Major market players (like apple) are calling for faster iGPUs so they don't need an intel+dGPU combo.

 

[witeken]

Anyone else feeling slightly disappointed in what broadwell offers to the table? I mean, a faster GPU is nice, but beyond that little/no CPU performance increases and little to no power savings... it feels like a weak release to me. If I have haswell hardware today there is very little enticing me to go grab broadwell tomorrow.

At least with haswell while performance was mostly unaffected, power consumption took a dive.

But to have 2 full generations of CPUs with little to no performance increase is a little disappointing. Maybe I'm getting crotchety, but I miss the good old days of regular 10->20% performance bumps every generation.

Little to no power savings?! 14nm reduces energy consumption by at least 30%. This will be used to stay at higher boost clocks for a longer time, which will improve performance by more than your "little/no performance increases". Broadwell seems like a great CPU to me. Just look at how much Broadwell-Y improved upon Haswell.

 

[dahorns]

Little to no power savings?! 14nm reduces energy consumption by at least 30%. This will be used to stay at higher boost clocks for a longer time, which will improve performance by more than your "little/no performance increases". Broadwell seems like a great CPU to me. Just look at how much Broadwell-Y improved upon Haswell.

Obviously he is talking about actual products, vs the theoretical benefit of the transistors.

The listed battery life of the products looks fine. Manufacturers seem to be focusing on thinner and lighter with ~same performance and true working day battery life. The new dell XPS 13 looks awesome.

 

[Cogman]

Little to no power savings?! 14nm reduces energy consumption by at least 30%. This will be used to stay at higher boost clocks for a longer time, which will improve performance by more than your "little/no performance increases". Broadwell seems like a great CPU to me. Just look at how much Broadwell-Y improved upon Haswell.

Didn't they spend their entire savings budget on the GPU? So net TDP is the same, CPU performance is untouched, and GPU power went up to eat up all of the power efficiency gains of the node shrink.

Am I reading this wrong? It looks like they spent none of their power budget on the CPU.

 

[Cogman]

Because when you ignore delivering what the market actually wants you end up not being in business?
Market is calling for lower power consumption and "cheap just good enough" devices.
Major market players (like apple) are calling for faster iGPUs so they don't need an intel+dGPU combo.

That probably is the case. Intel appears to be going aggressively towards the mobile market while leaving behind consumer PCs and servers.

 

[witeken]

Didn't they spend their entire savings budget on the GPU? So net TDP is the same, CPU performance is untouched, and GPU power went up to eat up all of the power efficiency gains of the node shrink.

Am I reading this wrong? It looks like they spent none of their power budget on the CPU.

It doesn't work that way. The 15W TDP is for the entire chip. If you don't use the IGP, it will not consume power, so you can use the full 15W for the CPU and vice versa.

 

[Arachnotronic]

But is it a bad omission for Intel? probably rather the contrary. Let's be honest, until h.265 becomes mainstream it take easily 5 years. And then if broadwell doesn't run it many people will actually buy a new PC they might not have bought if it would run it. More sales for intel.

Given current progress in CPUs you can easily keep them for 5-10 years. That's not good for intel if you quickly support every new spec. planned obsoletion.

This argument would work if Qualcomm, NVIDIA et al. weren't putting H.265 encode/decode onto their SoCs. Maybe it's not so big a deal for PCs, but that Gen. 8 architecture will power Cherry Trail for tablets...and this will be an Achilles' heel for the GPU.

Intel cannot afford to let phone/tablets platforms start pushing ahead of laptops in key functionality like this, otherwise this only weakens the value proposition of a new PC.

Skylake will have H.265 encode/decode.

 

[mikk]

Broadwell supports H265 decode. We don't exactly know how good their hybrid approach works and what power it uses.

The firm claims H.265 decoding on Broadwell-Y is "fast enough for 4K" with no caveats

And we don't know how good it works from Qualcomm or Nvidia, or is there a test somewhere?

 

[Eug]

Broadwell supports H265 decode. We don't exactly know how good their hybrid approach works and what power it uses.

My old 2008 MacBook is "good enough" for 1080p H.264, but it sucks up power like mad and turns the fan onto vacuum cleaner mode. Also, multitasking is a bitch.

My old 2009 MacBook Pro is lower clocked, but on 1080p H.264, the machine stays silent, and power utilization is much more reasonable. Also, I can multitask easily.

I am very worried that the Broadwell approach for H.265 will be similar to my old 2008 MacBook, esp. on the lower power SKUs.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Broadwell also misses HDMI 2.0. And thats a big letdown in terms of HTPC usage.

But the rest of the landscape isnt exactly any better.

Only Tonga, Kepler(partly) and Maxwell supports ny kind of H.265.

And only GM204 got HDMI 2.0.

I wonder whats the reason behind. I know HDMI 2.0 can be done via DP and some extra chip. H.265 is an entirely different matter tho.

 

[escrow4]

The releases are rubbish. We still don't have 24hr battery life in a thin and light ultrabook, and displays and keyboards across manufacturers are still rather crap. Broadwell itself at least moving to 14nm is a good step forward - just look at the increased clocks and turbo, but otherwise meh. And hopefully the PCH on the desktop will drop to 22nm.

 

[Magic Carpet]

The releases are rubbish. We still don't have 24hr battery life in a thin and light ultrabook, and displays and keyboards across manufacturers are still rather crap. Broadwell itself at least moving to 14nm is a good step forward - just look at the increased clocks and turbo, but otherwise meh. And hopefully the PCH on the desktop will drop to 22nm.

I suspect, the newer process node is the most important thing here. Which has to be done, in order, to let Skylake in and reap all the benefits

 

[ShintaiDK]

Panel power really need to drop before we see 24h, or battery capacity increase.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Panel power really need to drop before we see 24h, or battery capacity increase.

It's not just that. Vendors refuse to make bigger batteries as well. All the buzz about making it smaller, slimmer, lighter does not help.

EDIT: In 2006, I bought a SONY VAIO TX3 laptop that gave me over 10 hours of usage. It was light, small but it did have a unique battery.

 

[Maxima1]

It's not just that. Vendors refuse to make bigger batteries as well. All the buzz about making it smaller, slimmer, lighter does not help.

EDIT: In 2006, I bought a SONY VAIO TX3 laptop that gave me over 10 hours of usage. It was light, small but it did have a unique battery.

In fact, they're putting in smaller batteries!!!

 

[Magic Carpet]

In fact, they're putting in smaller batteries!!!

There you go. A vicious circle

The advancements (or lack of) in battery tech just can't keep up!

 

[witeken]

It's not just that. Vendors refuse to make bigger batteries as well. All the buzz about making it smaller, slimmer, lighter does not help.

EDIT: In 2006, I bought a SONY VAIO TX3 laptop that gave me over 10 hours of usage. It was light, small but it did have a unique battery.

What about ThinkPad X250?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37048681&postcount=13

 

[ninaholic37]

What about ThinkPad X250?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37048681&postcount=13

That name confused me. I was just playing with a ThinkPad X300 and thought this was an even lighter Core2Duo ULV from 2008.

 

[Magic Carpet]

What about ThinkPad X250?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37048681&postcount=13

For a short while, I played with a Haswell-based Carbon ThinkPad but didn't like the keyboard, so got rid of it. Had nice materials though.

But if this one delivers 18-20 hours with the extended battery, I might still buy it. I need some horse-power as well as portability. Thanks!

 

[escrow4]

For a short while, I played with a Haswell-based Carbon ThinkPad but didn't like the keyboard, so got rid of it. Had nice materials though.

But if this one delivers 18-20 hours with the extended battery, I might still buy it. I need some horse-power as well as portability. Thanks!

I'll likely be buying one too, but the x240 IPS panel is pffft for the price (see notebookcheck), so even then compromises.

 

[Magic Carpet]

I'll likely be buying one too, but the x240 IPS panel is pffft for the price (see notebookcheck), so even then compromises.

And SONY no longer makes laptops. Sad. But, if you want a quality panel, you have to drug yourself first, and use a tablet. Plenty of quality screens there. Sigh.

Also, did I mention how awful the touchpad was on that Carbon?

n/m.

Hopefully, Broadwell model will be better. And maybe they might fit it with a more powerful mobile i7 in there. Not a desktop i3, lol.

 

[bronxzv]

Panel power really need to drop before we see 24h, or battery capacity increase.

these guys http://www.less-optics.com/ were claiming around 25% less power for future panels IIRC, I'm not sure if they have yet signed a deal with a manufacturer, though