Intel Broadwell Thread

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ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
Apple just updated its series with Broadwell. Includign Core M for the air. So much for the ARM rumours.
 

Dave2150

Senior member
Jan 20, 2015
639
178
116
I hate to tell you, but checking e-mail and browsing, are what "most people" do with their computers, maybe with some youtube videos and netflix on top of that. Very few, relative to the total number of users, play demanding games or encode video. I would argue just the opposite, that for the vast majority of users, a haswell dual core pentium or i3 is more than adequate.

For casual users, yes a Dual Core is perfectly fine.

I simply assumed as he was an early adopter of x58 6 years ago, going for a quad core I7 950 back then, that he actually planned to utilize his quad core for his workload.

Seems this was not the case and he just impulse buys whatever seems best, without regarding his own light casual workload thats more suited to a dualcore.
 

mavere

Member
Mar 2, 2005
187
2
81
So the both updated MBAs and 13in rMBPs have Broadwell... but the only latter has a battery life boost: a measly 1hr jump to 10hr.

It seems like the 11in MBA version, with a large ratio of CPU consumption to everything else, should at least have a good bump in specced battery numbers from 14nm alone. I'm hoping that Apple downplayed the numbers to make the new retina 12in Macbook (which I've no interest in) seem better in comparison, but this is so disappointing.
 

ShintaiDK

Lifer
Apr 22, 2012
20,378
145
106
The 12" seems to focus on 30% less screen energy usage. The screen really is the main power user. Even if the CPU power was close to, if not 0. You still only get so much without improving the screens power consumption.
 

Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
So the both updated MBAs and 13in rMBPs have Broadwell... but the only latter has a battery life boost: a measly 1hr jump to 10hr.

It seems like the 11in MBA version, with a large ratio of CPU consumption to everything else, should at least have a good bump in specced battery numbers from 14nm alone. I'm hoping that Apple downplayed the numbers to make the new retina 12in Macbook (which I've no interest in) seem better in comparison, but this is so disappointing.

Believe me there is not a large ratio of CPU consumption to everything else.

The largest consumer of power is the screen, especially on ultrabooks.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
Believe me there is not a large ratio of CPU consumption to everything else.

The largest consumer of power is the screen, especially on ultrabooks.

Not that simple.

Ever since 4th Gen Core(Haswell) Intel focused on platform improvements. They do *more* than the CPU improvements. Lot of cases though, process tech changes are translated solely into better performance rather than lower power.

If screen was the vast majority of power use, then in light workloads, Core and Atom chips should have similar battery life. That's not the case. Atoms still have nearly 2x the battery life of Core devices per WHr.
 
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Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
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Intel's Xeon D brings Broadwell to cloud, web services

Basically an iGPU-less version of Broadwell packing up to 8 cores @ 20-45W TDP. Impressive stuff, I wonder what the die size is.

http://techreport.com/review/27928/intel-xeon-d-brings-broadwell-to-cloud-web-services

I have to say, the Xeon D looks like the future of the Xeon lineup to me, the product poised to ship in the largest numbers overall once the market comes to understand it. Big cores like Broadwell are usually most power-efficient when operating at the lower end of their possible voltage and frequency ranges, and Intel's latest process tech innovations have offered their biggest benefits at lower voltages. Dual-socket servers can run higher clock speeds, but those speeds come at less efficient operating points. 2P systems also tend to burn lots of power on their socket-to-socket interconnects.

The Xeon D should be excellent for providers of cloud and web services. I'd expect firms like Google and Facebook to snatch them up quickly. Intel also points to applications like web caching, storage, and networking as key for this product. The chipmaker expects the big data, HPC, and enterprise markets to stick with the Xeon EP. I suppose that makes sense, but I expect the Xeon D to be powerfully appealing in any case where a single application doesn't require more memory or compute power than a Xeon D can supply in a single node. That kind of makes 2P the new 4P, if you follow my meaning.

We don't yet have full pricing and specs on the various Xeon D models Intel will offer. We do know that the Xeon D-1450 will have eight cores with a base clock of 2.0GHz, an all-core Turbo peak of 2.5GHz, and a single-core Turbo peak of 2.6GHz. Meanwhile, the Xeon D-1520 will feature four cores with a 2.2GHz base frequency, 2.5GHz all-core Turbo, and a 2.6GHz single-core peak. Both chips should be available this month.

Intel has provided us with a few preliminary benchmark results for the Xeon D compared to Avoton. They show the Xeon D to be as much as 3.4x faster with up to 1.7x higher performance per watt. However, those numbers are based on pre-production hardware and look kind of shaky. I suspect we'll see better numbers published in the coming weeks.

Xeon D-1450 offers 8 cores running at 2.0-2.6GHz with a TDP of only 45W.
A mainstream LGA1150 version of this chip wouldn't do bad compared to 220W Visheras.
 
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Enigmoid

Platinum Member
Sep 27, 2012
2,907
31
91
Not that simple.

Ever since 4th Gen Core(Haswell) Intel focused on platform improvements. They do *more* than the CPU improvements. Lot of cases though, process tech changes are translated solely into better performance rather than lower power.

If screen was the vast majority of power use, then in light workloads, Core and Atom chips should have similar battery life. That's not the case. Atoms still have nearly 2x the battery life of Core devices per WHr.



Pretty typical power numbers.

The vast majority of power at idle and less intense tasks goes toward the panel (with a nonsignificant amount toward RAM and disk).

The reason why atom idle so far from core is that the panels are typically lower quality.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Dell-Venue-11-Pro-Tablet.110000.0.html

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Venue-11-Pro-5130-Tablet-Review.117579.0.html

Basically the same tablet (core version has a 36 vs. 32 whr battery). One with a z3770, the other with a i3-4020U.

Idle battery life, 12:42 vs. 13:55

Very little difference at idle.

Turn up use, (browsing) 6:42 vs. 9:10 -> 37% more battery life.

Some of that is the integrated PCH, some of that is the 4 vs. 2 GB RAM or the 128 SATA drive vs. eMMc.

Atom does better but at a significantly lower performance level. Platforms are not identical but its at most 50% more per whr.
 

Fjodor2001

Diamond Member
Feb 6, 2010
3,953
416
126
Apple just updated its series with Broadwell. Includign Core M for the air. So much for the ARM rumours.

That was kind of unexpected. I didn't think it was going to be launched this late. Insufficient chip supplies for MBA due to low 14 nm yields?

The question is what Apple intends to do going forward. Will they release a new MBA with Skylake in 2015Q3, just 6 months from now? That would give the Broadwell MBA a tiny 6 months sales window!

Or will they release it ~1+ year from now. Then Skylake will not be the "latest shit" anymore.

Decisions, decisions...

Apple previously used to release new products approximately at the same time as Intel released new CPUs to the market. I wonder what has changed and why... :hmm:
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
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In all seriousness, if AMD K12/Zen had some serious catching up to do before it's even worse now with 20-45W 8C/16T Broadwell.
 

bullzz

Senior member
Jul 12, 2013
405
23
81
@Fjodor2001 - apple has never updated macbooks on the day of intel's release. they wait for significant volume and tend to bunch announcements together
 

mavere

Member
Mar 2, 2005
187
2
81


Pretty typical power numbers. [...]

The point wasn't what Intel claims Broadwell will bring. The point was that Apple, who's historically been great at maximizing power efficiency per component, seemingly got little out of their Broadwell upgrade.
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
AnandTech: Intel Xeon D Launched: 14nm Broadwell SoC for Enterprise

It is very rare for Intel to come out and announce a new integrated platform. Today this comes in the form of Xeon D, best described as the meeting in the middle between Xeon E3 and Atom SoCs, taking the best bits of both and fitting into the market for the low-end server market prioritizing efficiency and networking. Xeon D, also known as Broadwell-DE, combines up to eight high performance Broadwell desktop cores and the PCH onto a single die, reduces both down to 14 nm for power consumption/die area and offers an array of server features normally found with the Xeon/Avoton line. This is being labeled as the first proper Intel Xeon SoC platform.

Adding in the Ethernet onto the SoC is rather interesting because the SoC is rated at a 45W TDP. Normally a server chipset is rated for around 13W, with 10G Ethernet at 7-13W. Thus even the additions of storage and networking can come to 20W, leaving 25W for the cores themselves. As a result, the cores are clocked at 2.0 GHz base for the 8-core D-1540, and 2.2 GHz for the 4-core D-1520. Both SKUs will turbo up to 2.5 GHz when needed.



Intel is placing some interesting claims on performance, specifically 3.4x better performance of the high end SKU compared to the Atom C2750 (eight core Silvermont) and 1.7x better performance per watt. Breaking down these comparisons, we have Silvermont against Broadwell which has a significant difference in architecture, and then an eight-core/eight-thread C2750 against the eight-core/sixteen-thread D-1540, which should improve the performance when software can take advantage of the threading. The performance per watt should have been expected moving from 22nm Silvermont to 14nm Broadwell. Bundle these in together, and the 3.4x / 1.7x numbers seem a reasonable comparison. The more poignant number perhaps is the 5.5% IPC increase over Haswell due to microarchitecture improvements:

Broadwell improves IPC by ~5.5%.

www.anandtech.com/show/9070/intel-xeon-d-launched-14nm-broadwell-soc-for-enterprise
 

tenks

Senior member
Apr 26, 2007
287
0
0
This is you implying the part in question is not a "K" CPU:

Followed be saying i7 repeatedly in the rest of the paragraph. Way to cherry pick, nt tho.

It appears that the unlocking of the multiplier is a very small bone being thrown to the enthusiast, other than that it would appear to be a low TDP chip for BRIX and NUC etc.


...this is exactly what I was referring too. lol this guy

Apple just updated its series with Broadwell. Includign Core M for the air. So much for the ARM rumours.

Core-M is only for the new "Macbook". Air is broadwell i5/i7 apparently.
 
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witeken

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2013
3,899
193
106
Here comes your daily those of FinFET FUD :

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1325973

“Two or three years ago Intel was ahead [in process technology] and foundries were striving to catch up, [but now]…perhaps some of that gap is closing,” said Saleem Haider, a senior marketing director at Synopsys. “For FinFET processes, we are very much in the phase where customers are calling on us for support with production designs,” he said.

Most of the issues around the need for double-patterning lithography got worked out in the 20nm nodes with chip designs that started as early as 2005, said White. At the 10nm node, foundries are starting to choose diverging paths with some adopting self-aligned double patterning and others moving to triple patterning, she said.

Well, I guess it doesn't matter. The foundry camp can brag that they're in phones ahead of Intel with 14nm, but Intel can start the timer when it moves to post-silicon next year . [spoiler alert: suddenly, then, the gap will grow from "closing" to 4 or so years.]
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,118
59
91
Here comes your daily those of FinFET FUD :

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1325973

Well, I guess it doesn't matter. The foundry camp can brag that they're in phones ahead of Intel with 14nm, but Intel can start the timer when it moves to post-silicon next year . [spoiler alert: suddenly, then, the gap will grow from "closing" to 4 or so years.]

The reason the "news" exists is painfully obvious:
The news was released the same day archrival Cadence Design Systems announced Innovus, its next-generation physical design tool which claims significant speed ups in FinFET and planar processes.

So its a damage-control PR article for Synopsys, nothing really to do with Finfet, Intel, or the foundries. But you got to make it spicy if you expect people to read it...enter the product marketing director:
...said Mary Ann White, director of product marketing for Synopsys’ Galaxy Design Platform
and enter the senior marketing director:
...said Saleem Haider, a senior marketing director at Synopsys
and finally the "article" ends with what is essentially a PR dueling match:
“We partnered closely with Cadence to use the Innovus Implementation System during the development of our ARM Cortex-A72 processor,” said Noel Hurley, general manager of ARM’s CPU group, speaking in a Cadence press release.
This kind of marketing PR BS is not worth the time spent reading it. Best just to move on.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
I really haven't been following CPU release info, but when is Broadwell due for the PC desktop?
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,842
11,199
136
The only Broadwell that appears to be hitting the desktop is the Iris Pro part which should be out in June or July I think. Intel has actually demoed the chip (without giving away clockspeed info, grr) so it looks like they're ready to sell the thing.

We don't know clockspeeds or even if it's got HT, but it's a quad with GT3e + Crystalwell.

edit: It's a 65W TDP part for LGA1150
 
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ninaholic37

Golden Member
Apr 13, 2012
1,883
31
91
Yes, it looks like they only changed the CPU, keeping the TDP at 15W (so they are not passively cooled).
I first read that as "Macbook Air i5/i7 doesn't have a fan, and has the same design as Macbook Core M" but am not sure if I'm reading your post correctly. :hmm:
 
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