Intel Broadwell Thread

[frozentundra123456]

Nice surprise, there's a 2+3e Broadwell SKU.



www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Core-i5-5350H-Notebook-Processor.143888.0.html

I think Intel is slowly paving the way for dual-core GT3e desktop chips. There's a market for them, even if the price comes close to entry-level quad-cores. Can't wait to see how Skylake GT4e performs after today's results.



Any particular reason why the same couldn't be done in desktop boards?

47 watt TDP for a dual core, even with fast clocks and GT3e seems awfully high. Even desktop broadwell with 4 cores and higher clocks has only a 65 watt TDP. If the price is right, it could be a nice chip for a light gaming laptop though. For gaming a hyperthreaded dual core is probably good enough.

Edit: does iris pro really use that much power? Even a high clocked desktop haswell i3 is rated at only 54 watts.

 

[cbn]

For a light gaming desktop I actually think a high clocked 2C GT3e makes more sense than the 4C GT3e. (re: 4C user is more likely to use a video card).

Of course, price matters.

 

[coercitiv]

47 watt TDP for a dual core, even with fast clocks and GT3e seems awfully high.

Not when you try to reproduce the same level of performance using a mobile dGPU: 750M alone uses between 35-40W according to notebookcheck.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Urgh, if Intel want to push it, they could drive AMD APUs out of the market. Broadwell + Crystal Well simply smashed Kaveri/Godovari.

I expected that Broadwell-C would probably beat AMD's R7 Spectre in integrated graphics tests. Skylake Iris Pro (whatever it is eventually called) should up the ante. I am disappointed that AT did not see fit to run any OpenCL 2.0 benchmarks, preferably those aimed at SVM. I would like to have seen what Broadwell-C had to offer in that department.

Regardless, kudos to Intel for finally making a socketed desktop APU with iGPU performance that's worth a darn! Let's hope they have fewer driver problems now, too.

 

[Sweepr]

Some QuickSync numbers:

This website hit 4.2GHz with a minor voltage bump:

http://weekly.ascii.jp/elem/000/000/341/341607

 

[frozentundra123456]

snip

Gotta say it's funny to see the same people who defended Kaveri compared to other solutions even before the price drops (back when A10 7850K costed $173) suddenly using the 'cheap dGPUs are better' argument now. Oh, the irony.

Exactly, but it was inevitable. I also have not heard the "you can add a dgpu later" argument, which is actually more valid here, because if you do add a dgpu later, you arent stuck with AMD's mediocre cpu performance.

 

[AtenRa]

Exactly, but it was inevitable. I also have not heard the "you can add a dgpu later" argument, which is actually more valid here, because if you do add a dgpu later, you arent stuck with AMD's mediocre cpu performance.

The fundamental difference is that when Kaveri originally released back in January 2014 (1.5 year ago) at $173, R7 250 was selling at close to $100 and cheapest Core i3 was at $100+.
Athlon 860K was released more than 6 months later.

Also A10-7850K was the highest Kaveri SKU, Core i5 5675C is the cheapest SKU and at a extremely high price of $276.
The A10-7700K and A8-7600 were priced nicely for what they offered.

Also, you can add a dGPU with the Quad Core Kaveri up to R9 290X/GTX970 without loosing to much performance in the majority of games.

 

[mikk]

47 watt TDP for a dual core, even with fast clocks and GT3e seems awfully high. Even desktop broadwell with 4 cores and higher clocks has only a 65 watt TDP. If the price is right, it could be a nice chip for a light gaming laptop though. For gaming a hyperthreaded dual core is probably good enough.

Edit: does iris pro really use that much power? Even a high clocked desktop haswell i3 is rated at only 54 watts.

2+3e on Broadwell is a cut down H-Broadwell. First native 2+3e is coming with Skylake.

 

[Enigmoid]

It depends on how you look at it. The i5 5675C offers equal performance to the 4670k and a lot better igp performance for a $20 bump. If it overclocks equally as well it will offer a little more CPU performance than Haswell.

If you use a dgpu then it may not be worth it (unless you like the improved quicksync or edram). But you can throw any gpu on this chip which you can't do with kaveri.

Its terrible value as an APU value proposition but its not terrible as a successor to the i5 haswell. I doubt the ARK intel prices will align with what we will see in retail.

 

[AtenRa]

But you can throw any gpu on this chip which you can't do with kaveri.

What do you mean you cant use any dGPU with Kaveri ???

 

[Headfoot]

How good broadwell C ends up being entirely depends on overclocking. The L4 cache + IPC is very promising for a tick. If it can hit the same/similar clocks as Devils Canyon its a win

 

[ShintaiDK]

What do you mean you cant use any dGPU with Kaveri ???

Its too slow and you know it.

 

[dahorns]

The fundamental difference is that when Kaveri originally released back in January 2014 (1.5 year ago) at $173, R7 250 was selling at close to $100 and cheapest Core i3 was at $100+.
Athlon 860K was released more than 6 months later.

Also A10-7850K was the highest Kaveri SKU, Core i5 5675C is the cheapest SKU and at a extremely high price of $276.
The A10-7700K and A8-7600 were priced nicely for what they offered.

Also, you can add a dGPU with the Quad Core Kaveri up to R9 290X/GTX970 without loosing to much performance in the majority of games.

Well, you could look at the 5775c as equaling or exceeding the performance of a 4790K with $70-$100 GPU for only $30 more than just a 4790K.

So, uh, seems like a fair price? I mean, it is probably not a real upgrade for those with Haswell, but it is certainly worth exploring for those buying a new system. And it is definitely worth exploring if you're looking to build a small form factor system.

 

[exar333]

Well, you could look at the 5775c as equaling or exceeding the performance of a 4790K with $70-$100 GPU for only $30 more than just a 4790K.

So, uh, seems like a fair price? I mean, it is probably not a real upgrade for those with Haswell, but it is certainly worth exploring for those buying a new system. And it is definitely worth exploring if you're looking to build a small form factor system.

Anyone with an issue around the price of these new CPUs would already have an issue with Intel pricing. Period.

This is a marginal mark-up over existing i5/i7 equivalents and is a good value for the complete package. (no pun intended)

For those who still only want $100 CPUs, there are still plenty of cheap (and slower) options available. For those of us who grew-up with $1000+ CPU prices, modern prices are already cheap for good SKUs and honestly you can get a good 2-3 years out of any $200-350 CPU for gaming or general purpose and not really need to upgrade constantly.

 

[MrTeal]

Well, you could look at the 5775c as equaling or exceeding the performance of a 4790K with $70-$100 GPU for only $30 more than just a 4790K.

So, uh, seems like a fair price? I mean, it is probably not a real upgrade for those with Haswell, but it is certainly worth exploring for those buying a new system. And it is definitely worth exploring if you're looking to build a small form factor system.

The biggest problem facing the 5775C is that people believe we're two to three months out from the 6700k, and few people would want to buy a new system on a soon to be obsoleted platform especially if it means buying new DDR3.

If Intel can/will allow Broadwell and OCing on the older 8 series chipsets though, that might make something like the new Iris Pros make a lot of sense. If you've been running a G3258 for the last year with a budget GPU or the iGPU, this could make a pretty tempting upgrade.

 

[Sweepr]

It depends on how you look at it. The i5 5675C offers equal performance to the 4670k and a lot better igp performance for a $20 bump. If it overclocks equally as well it will offer a little more CPU performance than Haswell.

If you use a dgpu then it may not be worth it (unless you like the improved quicksync or edram). But you can throw any gpu on this chip which you can't do with kaveri.

Well, you could look at the 5775c as equaling or exceeding the performance of a 4790K with $70-$100 GPU for only $30 more than just a 4790K.

So, uh, seems like a fair price? I mean, it is probably not a real upgrade for those with Haswell, but it is certainly worth exploring for those buying a new system. And it is definitely worth exploring if you're looking to build a small form factor system.

Anyone with an issue around the price of these new CPUs would already have an issue with Intel pricing. Period.

This is a marginal mark-up over existing i5/i7 equivalents and is a good value for the complete package. (no pun intended)

Exactly. You are buying the complete package here. You can't have equal or better than Core i5 4690K CPU performance coupled with the graphics performance Iris Pro provides at the same price and power (65W) as a Core i5 5675C. It's all about choices, this is not meant to replace all low-end CPU+dGPU gaming combos but it certainly has its streghts and it might be an interesting product for many users.

I can't imagine AMD pricing a hyphothetical 65W APU with Vishera CPU performance and better than Kaveri/Godavari gaming results much lower than this. Let's not forget that they tried to charge $173 for inferior CPU performance at the expense of better integrated graphics with A10 7850K at launch (compared to similarly priced Core i5 4430 back then).

 

[dahorns]

The biggest problem facing the 5775C is that people believe we're two to three months out from the 6700k, and few people would want to buy a new system on a soon to be obsoleted platform especially if it means buying new DDR3.

If Intel can/will allow Broadwell and OCing on the older 8 series chipsets though, that might make something like the new Iris Pros make a lot of sense. If you've been running a G3258 for the last year with a budget GPU or the iGPU, this could make a pretty tempting upgrade.

The market for PCs is big enough that there is always someone buying something. Some may wait. This may be a good product for those that will not.

 

[MrTeal]

What do you mean you cant use any dGPU with Kaveri ???

You can use any dGPU with Kaveri. It might just be a waste of money.

 

[MrTeal]

The market for PCs is big enough that there is always someone buying something. Some may wait. This may be a good product for those that will not.

Oh for sure, I'm sure some people will buy some. I've been really tempted just because I'd like to run 6200 vs a range of historical dGPU benchmarks as I haven't seen anything like that. I'm just not sure it'll be any kind of big quantity unless system builders start using these in systems they're selling at Best Buy.

Hopefully if sales aren't great it doesn't influence Intel on releasing a top-end LGA version of GT3e and GT4e, since those would be really nice parts.

 

[AtenRa]

Its too slow and you know it.

It is half the price and can use any dGPU with it. You will not get the same perf as the Core i5 in every game but for half the price you can use any dGPU and play any game at the highest Image Quality settings on 1080p up to 4K.

Even on the very CPU intensive GTA V, the Kaveri + GTX980 can produce 50fps on 1080p. At 4K you are GPU limited and DX-12 games will allow the Kaveri to reach new higher performance in heavily CPU intensive Games.

 

[AtenRa]

You can use any dGPU with Kaveri. It might just be a waste of money.

If you want the best Graphics/Image Quality, any dGPU is not a waste of money. You may not get the same perf as Core i5 but you will get higher perf than having a slower dGPU.

 

[ShintaiDK]

It is half the price and can use any dGPU with it. You will not get the same perf as the Core i5 in every game but for half the price you can use any dGPU and play any game at the highest Image Quality settings on 1080p up to 4K.

Even on the very CPU intensive GTA V, the Kaveri + GTX980 can produce 50fps on 1080p. At 4K you are GPU limited and DX-12 games will allow the Kaveri to reach new higher performance in heavily CPU intensive Games.

Nobody sane is going to pair a slowpoke CPU with anything remotely performance related just to suffer in unused performance. Just to save the cost of a game or 2. As soon as you add a discrete GPU to Kaveri you lost.

Using all your excuses and cherrypicks people could also use an old Core 2. It still doesnt change the fact. Kaveri is slow, very slow. Going outside prescripted benchmarks will only make that worse.

 

[zir_blazer]

Anandtech made a remark about the Xeon E3 V4 launch

However, it has an error...

The Xeon enables ECC RAM support, VT-D and PCI-passthrough, something that the desktops chips obviously lack.

Most Core i5/i7s supported VT-d EXCEPT the K series models. Intel decided to include VT-d for the Devil's Canyon Ci5 4690K and Ci7 4790K, and the new Broadwell-C also have it. Basically, you don't need a Xeon for PCI Passthrough. Good that someone catched it, better later than never for the Passthrough support party. Main feature difference in favor of Xeons E3 V4 is vPro and TXT support, not sure on the other minor features since Ark isn't 100% exact (May be present but not advertised as such).
Still, if you're already on the Intel side of things, PCI/VGA Passthrough is just a single feature. The killer one will be proper GPU Virtualization of the Intel HD Graphics, so you can use both the integrated one for competent acceleration in all VMs except the main gaming one. Both Haswell and Broadwell should be able to do it, on mainstream parts. That will be the bread and butter of the next power user generation.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Nobody sane is going to pair a slowpoke CPU with anything remotely performance related just to suffer in unused performance. Just to save the cost of a game or 2. As soon as you add a discrete GPU to Kaveri you lost.

Using all your excuses and cherrypicks people could also use an old Core 2. It still doesnt change the fact. Kaveri is slow, very slow. Going outside prescripted benchmarks will only make that worse.

Exactly. It is insane to argue for saving 100 or even 200 dollars for a cpu when you are spending 400 to 600+ dollars for a gpu, even more if you go absolute top end or crossfire/SLI. Plus you dont buy the cpu to sit alone in a box and look at it, so "double" the price for a high end i5 vs Kaveri, ends up as maybe only 10% of the total system cost. Not to mention that someone with such a high end system will likely buy several AAA games at 60.00 a pop every year and be paying for fast internet to play online.

Even then, if for some unfathomable reason you must pair a 130.00 cpu with a high end discrete card (even the thought of it makes my head want to explode!!), you would be much better off with an i3 or FX8xxx instead of a 7850k.

 

[Yuriman]

It is half the price and can use any dGPU with it. You will not get the same perf as the Core i5 in every game but for half the price you can use any dGPU and play any game at the highest Image Quality settings on 1080p up to 4K.

Even on the very CPU intensive GTA V, the Kaveri + GTX980 can produce 50fps on 1080p. At 4K you are GPU limited and DX-12 games will allow the Kaveri to reach new higher performance in heavily CPU intensive Games.

Performance is lower in a vast majority of CPU-bound tasks even than an i3 of equivalent price. If you're going to go with a discrete GPU anyway, why opt for Kaveri when an i3 offers better CPU performance at a lower price, while using less power and offering an upgrade path?