Intel Broadwell Thread

[NTMBK]

You know what that 2+3 die reminds me of, with its tiny CPUs and massive GPU?

 

[Sweepr]

Lenovo's new Broadwell-U based LaVie Z makes Macbook Air look heavy

At just 1.72 pounds you would expect low specifications, a flimsy build, and poor battery life, but Lenovo surprises at every opportunity. Packed inside its 16.9mm thin body is Intel’s 5th generation Core i5 processor, an unusual choice over the fanless Core M processors that are often selected for such thin and light machines.

That gives you the power of a real laptop alongside a 13.3-inch display that can be configured up to 2560 x 1440 resolution. There’s no touchscreen on the basic laptop model (HZ550), but Lenovo also has a convertible Z model (HZ750) that works like a Yoga with a 360-degree hinge to flip around and an option for an Core i7 processor. The convertible is slightly heavier at 2.04 pounds, but it’s largely identical otherwise. Lenovo is using an IGZO display in both models, a choice that should help with battery life. The company estimates 5.9 hours for the notebook model and around 9 hours for the convertible.

It’s really hard to explain in words or pictures just how light this laptop is. You need to hold it to really appreciate how crazy it is. I held it with just two fingers and from the corner edge of the base, and my muscles (I don’t think I really have any) didn’t even twitch. When I picked up a MacBook Air shortly afterwards, Apple’s highly praised laptop started to feel really bulky. Every laptop needs to be as light as this new Lenovo.

Both models will be available in the US in May, with the basic HZ550 (without touchscreen) priced at $1,299 and the convertible (HZ750) priced at approximately $1,499.

www.theverge.com/2015/1/5/7490411/lenovo-lavie-z-notebook-announced-at-ces-2015

Impressive design by Lenovo, the full power of Broadwell-U inside an ultra light device.

 

[mikk]

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-broadwell-u-first-benchmarks,news-49511.html

Ice Storm Unlimited for a GPU comparison.....useless. No meaningful reviews or previews available. One of the poorest Intel launches in the last years. Nothing from Anandtech as well.

 

[witeken]

Of course the CPU is tiny: 2x smaller than its predecessor. It simply as big as it needs to be to be a high-end CPU (architecture) with good power consumption.

 

[Nothingness]

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/intel-broadwell-u-first-benchmarks,news-49511.html

Ice Storm Unlimited for a GPU comparison.....useless. No meaningful reviews or previews available.

Agreed, but the physics score of the X250 looks very good especially compared to the horrible one the Yoga 3 Pro gets... The same applies to other CPU tests.

OTOH all of these are pre-production hardware and they didn't compare against Microsoft Surface Pro 3, but against an older one Surface which I find odd.

One of the poorest Intel launches in the last years. Nothing from Anandtech as well.

Poor launch for sure.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Poor launch for sure.

Agreed. Broadwell-U is better than Haswell-U, but I can't shake the feeling that Skylake is the 14nm laptop chip that will deliver a really huge leap.

 

[TreVader]

So when do you guys think they will announce the new Apple A9 powered macbook airs?





I am not joking. This is not going to be acceptable to Apple. They will not sell their customers a 6% processor speed jump on a device that they are doing a COMPLETE refresh of. You guys would have to be crazy to think Apple will take Broadwell-U the way it is now.



This is worse than I ever thought. I mean come on, what do you think the HD4600 in Ivy Bridge-U scored? I guarantee you it was a lot better than 6% on the graphics side. On top of that, Ivy Bridge brought clock speed bumps to things other than base clock. The reason intel is only adjusting the base clock up, and not the turbo clock, is that they actually can't clock 14nm any higher than 22nm. In fact, I would bet it's worse. Apple will not accept this. I am calling it now: Apple A9 powered Retina Macbook Air 2015.



Remember, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

 

[ShintaiDK]

So when do you guys think they will announce the new Apple A9 powered macbook airs?

I am not joking. This is not going to be acceptable to Apple. They will not sell their customers a 6% processor speed jump on a device that they are doing a COMPLETE refresh of. You guys would have to be crazy to think Apple will take Broadwell-U the way it is now.

This is worse than I ever thought. I mean come on, what do you think the HD4600 in Ivy Bridge-U scored? I guarantee you it was a lot better than 6% on the graphics side. On top of that, Ivy Bridge brought clock speed bumps to things other than base clock. The reason intel is only adjusting the base clock up, and not the turbo clock, is that they actually can't clock 14nm any higher than 22nm. In fact, I would bet it's worse. Apple will not accept this. I am calling it now: Apple A9 powered Retina Macbook Air 2015.

Remember, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

So you say Intel is too slow. Yet you ask when Apple will release something with a much slower ARM CPU as a replacement?

 

[TreVader]

So you say Intel is too slow. Yet you ask when Apple will release something with a much slower ARM CPU as a replacement?

Shintai besides your totally unsupported (as usual) statement that is easily refuted (please search for Apple A8X thread everything will be explained for you there) why do you think apple would accept such paltry performance when they have consistently shown that they are willing to uproot their entire software stack for performance?


Also, for reference, the Apple A8X scores 30,000.


So more than half what the 50,000 the 28W5500-U scores in cloudgate! How much power do you you think it used?


Four. Watts. That is the number 4.



What do you think Apple could do with 28W?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Shintai besides your totally unsupported (as usual) statement that is easily refuted (please search for Apple A8X thread everything will be explained for you there) why do you think apple would accept such paltry performance when they have consistently shown that they are willing to uproot their entire software stack for performance?


Also, for reference, the Apple A8X scores 30,000.


So more than half what the 50,000 the 28W5500-U scores in cloudgate! How much power do you you think it used?


Four. Watts. That is the number 4.



What do you think Apple could do with 28W?

You forgot to link to your numbers. 30000 what?

 

[TreVader]

You forgot to link to your numbers. 30000 what?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A8X

Now let's see your numbers. Please show me a 4W Intel chip that scores 30,000 in cloudgate.


I'm waiting :whistle:

 

[ShintaiDK]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A8X

Now let's see your numbers. Please show me a 4W Intel chip that scores 30,000 or even 10,000 in cloudgate.


I'm waiting :whistle:

Your link doesnt show any benchmark numbers.

 

[TreVader]

Your link doesnt show any benchmark numbers.

Oops. Here you go.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/8666/the-apple-ipad-air-2-review/2

Is this your method of argument? To offer no information or support and keep begging for me to feed you like some mewling infant?

Personal insults are not allowed here.
Markfw900


You arguments are pathetic. Since I already know what you will find, there are no Intel chips that top 23,000 in cloudgate at anything less than 4,5W.

Why is it that Intel can't keep up with a measly iPad chip? Even after paying off retailers, they don't want Intel chips!

 

[ShintaiDK]

Oops. Here you go.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/8666/the-apple-ipad-air-2-review/2

Is this your method of argument? To offer no information or support and keep begging for me to feed you like some mewling infant?


You arguments are pathetic. Since I already know what you will find, there are no Intel chips that top 23,000 in cloudgate at anything less than 4,5W.

Why is it that Intel can't keep up with a measly iPad chip? Even after paying off retailers, they don't want Intel chips!

So you talk IGP only with no regards to CPU performance? But even then:

 

[Arachnotronic]

TreVader

I assume you are referring to the following benchmarks?

Core M (4.5W TDP) edges out the GPU performance of A8X and crushes it physics:

Apple's silicon teams are good, but for PC class power/performance chips, Intel is still -- at least in my opinion -- quite ahead of everybody else.

I wouldn't underestimate Apple's chip prowess, but I also wouldn't underestimate Intel's (at least in PCs and above) either.

 

[TreVader]

So you talk IGP only with no regards to CPU performance? But even then:

What's llama mountain? Where can I buy it in a store?


And btw, that's 6W, which (and I know you have a tough time with math) is MORE than 4.5


Try again.

 

[TreVader]

TreVader



I assume you are referring to the following benchmarks?

Core M (4.5W TDP) edges out the GPU performance of A8X and crushes it physics:

Apple's silicon teams are good, but for PC class power/performance chips, Intel is still -- at least in my opinion -- quite ahead of everybody else.



Intel's mobile efforts, on the other hand...

You do realize that Core M is a fiasco, right?


Intel has put NDAs on products it has on the shelves. It is afraid that people will realize it has no edge, and is actually far far behind.


The Intel distortion field will now return to normal and I will let you continue posting irrelevant stuff that never answers any of my actual requests. Peace be with you.

 

[Eug]

So when do you guys think they will announce the new Apple A9 powered macbook airs?

I am not joking. This is not going to be acceptable to Apple. They will not sell their customers a 6% processor speed jump on a device that they are doing a COMPLETE refresh of. You guys would have to be crazy to think Apple will take Broadwell-U the way it is now.

This is worse than I ever thought. I mean come on, what do you think the HD4600 in Ivy Bridge-U scored? I guarantee you it was a lot better than 6% on the graphics side. On top of that, Ivy Bridge brought clock speed bumps to things other than base clock. The reason intel is only adjusting the base clock up, and not the turbo clock, is that they actually can't clock 14nm any higher than 22nm. In fact, I would bet it's worse. Apple will not accept this. I am calling it now: Apple A9 powered Retina Macbook Air 2015.

TreVader, as a Mac fan who is looking forward to the new 12" MacBook Retina, I'd say you're smoking some pretty good stuff if you think Apple is going to put an A9 chip in it over Broadwell.

That said, I could see Apple releasing a 12" iPad plus, with option for detachable keyboard. But that would be an iPad / iPad hybrid, not a MacBook.

Remember, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST

People have been predicting ARM MacBooks for years now.

Agreed. Broadwell-U is better than Haswell-U, but I can't shake the feeling that Skylake is the 14nm laptop chip that will deliver a really huge leap.

Even if the 12" MacBook Retina shows up, with Broadwell, even if I do like the form factor and design, I'm thinking I might end up waiting for Skylake too.

CPU aside, Apple usually intentionally leaves out something big or cripples it with a low spec in one or more of the components on their new product launches, only to fix it in the next generation one year later. eg. iPad with single core CPU and 256 MB RAM, fixed with dual-core CPU and 512 MB RAM 1 year later.

As for the CPU, the one thing that has got me worried is lack of proper H.265 HEVC acceleration. Since I keep my laptops a very long time, this is one feature I foresee myself missing in a few years. Speaking of which, I'm still on my 2009 MacBook Pro. Almost 6 years old now. I can hold out another year though.

 

[TreVader]

TreVader, as a Mac fan who is looking forward to the new 12" MacBook Retina, I'd say you're smoking some pretty good stuff if you think Apple is going to put an ARM chip in it over Broadwell.





People have been predicting ARM MacBooks for years now.





Even if the 12" MacBook Retina shows up, with Broadwell, even if I do like the form factor and design, I'm thinking I might end up waiting for Skylake too.



CPU aside, Apple usually intentionally leaves out something big or cripples it with a low spec in one or more of the components on their new product launches, only to fix it in the next generation one year later. eg. iPad with single core CPU and 256 MB RAM, fixed with dual-core CPU and 512 MB RAM 1 year later.



As for the CPU, the one thing that has got me worried is lack of proper H.265 HEVC acceleration. Since I keep my laptops a very long time, this is one feature I foresee myself missing in a few years. Speaking of which, I'm still on my 2009 MacBook Pro. Almost 6 years old now. I can hold out another year though.

We will see, Eug, we will see. I very well may be wrong but I wouldn't get anywhere in life if I walked around under that assumption all day!

 

[TreVader]

TreVader

I assume you are referring to the following benchmarks?

Core M (4.5W TDP) edges out the GPU performance of A8X and crushes it physics:

Apple's silicon teams are good, but for PC class power/performance chips, Intel is still -- at least in my opinion -- quite ahead of everybody else.

I wouldn't underestimate Apple's chip prowess, but I also wouldn't underestimate Intel's (at least in PCs and above) either.

The issue is that a 12" retina MacBook doesn't need 12 core Xeon performance. It just doesn't. And at super low wattage ARM has continually proved to be superior, with apples adaptations being the best of all.


Apple has already matched Haswell-U performance with A8X at much better power draw. That is all they need for a retina air.

 

[Arachnotronic]

You do realize that Core M is a fiasco, right?


Intel has put NDAs on products it has on the shelves. It is afraid that people will realize it has no edge, and is actually far far behind.


The Intel distortion field will now return to normal and I will let you continue posting irrelevant stuff that never answers any of my actual requests. Peace be with you.

I'm not trying to deflect your requests. It is helpful to all forum participants for people to ask questions like the one you raised because everyone (ideally) should benefit from the exchange.

If you could phrase your request in a different way (perhaps I misunderstood in my reply with the Core M/iPad Air 2 tests), then I would be happy to try to answer it as best as I can.

 

[TreVader]

I'm not trying to deflect your requests. It is helpful to all forum participants for people to ask questions like the one you raised because everyone (ideally) should benefit from the exchange.



If you could phrase your request in a different way (perhaps I misunderstood in my reply with the Core M/iPad Air 2 tests), then I would be happy to try to answer it as best as I can.

I was being a bit trollish because Shintai was trolling me, you are right I should have phrased it better.

I tried to answer your post better.

Anyway, I think it's certainly not a sure thing that apple will go A9 this year on the 12 air.


I can tell you that after the release of core M Apple probably has their CPU design working on replacing ALL Intel CPUs. The writing is on the wall.


Edit: before I leave for work, is anybody impressed with this CPU? I get that you guys think Apple will keep Intel, fair enough you may be right, but what do you personally think of the performance increases Intel is giving today? Especially in graphics?

 

[Arachnotronic]

As for the CPU, the one thing that has got me worried is lack of proper H.265 HEVC acceleration. Since I keep my laptops a very long time, this is one feature I foresee myself missing in a few years. Speaking of which, I'm still on my 2009 MacBook Pro. Almost 6 years old now. I can hold out another year though.

You are absolutely spot on with the lack of H.265 in Gen. 8. This is a pretty serious feature omission that everybody from Apple to MediaTek has in next generation SoCs. Intel remedies this with Skylake, though.

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple just swap in Broadwell-U into the current MBA chassis and save the big redesign for a Skylake MBA launched in time for the back to school shopping season.

 

[Space69]

I have a question that I hope some can answer - is it possible to compare 3DMark scores between platforms(OpenGL ES vs DirectX)?

The mobile version of 3DMark use OpenGL ES 2 and it's default is fp16 calculations where the PC version use DirectX with fp32 calculations - Does the mobile version force fp32 use?

 

[Arachnotronic]

I was being a bit trollish because Shintai was trolling me, you are right I should have phrased it better.

I tried to answer your post better.

Anyway, I think it's certainly not a sure thing that apple will go A9 this year on the 12 air.


I can tell you that after the release of core M Apple probably has their CPU design working on replacing ALL Intel CPUs. The writing is on the wall.

Look, Apple is the richest technology company on the planet with crazy supply chain clout and the ability to attract and retain the best talent. If Apple were hell bent on kicking Intel out of all of its Mac products, it would be costly, but I think it could be done.

Will Apple do it? I personally don't think so, particularly since Mac volumes just aren't that large in the scheme of things. Further, while Apple is rich and powerful, even Apple can hire only so many top-notch CPU/SoC engineers. I think it would be better for Apple to continue focusing its chip efforts on high margin/high profitability iPhone chips (from which iPad chips are derives) and let Intel -- which is very good at what it does (PC chips) -- handle the much less important, and much lower volume Mac chips.

That's just my two cents though. If Apple came out with a crazy, Intel-killing PC chip, and put it in the Mac, I would be extremely impressed.