Intel CEO slams Rambus

[Rigoletto]

Oh, everybody please get real.
It's obvious from that article that Intel is trying to dissociate itself from the very bad feeling that RAMBUS has generated. Intel ain't really THAT upset but for the fact that they are getting creamed by cheaper solutions right now.
They made a gamble on owning an entire fast technology. Well it was like a poker game and looked a pretty good gamble at the time. Now RAMBUS will always be expensive, everybody hates them, so Intel try to say, "hey, I'm with you guys" to us. Oh bollocks, mate.
If P4 is introduced with only RIMMs then they can kiss my sweet ass, I'll laugh in their faces.

 

[RagingGuardian]

Nox I was refering to the fact that currently serial memory doesn't outperform SDRAM and if so by a small margin. You do have to admit the price delta between the two is rahter huge though.

 

[PCResources]

The QDR some of you are referring to, might it be the DDR-II you mean??

The DDR-II is very similar to Rambus design, so of course, you will not buy such a BAD product, or?

 

[Syborg1211]

qdr is duad data rate bus, similar to ddr but 4 instead of 2

EDIT:Quad*

 

[RagingGuardian]

Syborg, that's why the P4 will support DDR memory and we'll see how PC800 performs in comparison to PC2100 when the P4 is released.

PC Reasources, QDR is in reference to DDR2 which would be more like "quad pumped" hence the name QDR.

 

[PCResources]

<< qdr is duad data rate bus, similar to ddr but 4 instead of 2 >>



Are you sure? Who will make this? Are you sure you do not mean DDR-II?

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[RagingGuardian]

<< The DDR-II is very similar to Rambus design >>



You mean without the latency issues? It reads and writes at the peak of each cycle. I don't get the naming scheme.

 

[PCResources]

<< QDR is in reference to DDR2 which would be more like &quot;quad pumped&quot; hence the name QDR >>



Where have you gotten this information from, the memory makers that i have spoken to so far claims that a quad pumped SDRAM bus would be impossible.

Who will make this memory, I'll contact them directly and will give you feedback on everything.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[RagingGuardian]

Check it out. As I said it read and writes at the peak of each cycle. Please report back with your findings.

 

[PCResources]

<< You mean without the latency issues? It reads and writes at the peak of each cycle. I don't get the naming scheme. >>



Well, obviously you do not know what you are talking about...

A bus as wide as the SDRAM bus and 400Mhz would create the need of more PCBlayers on the motherboard (for signal shielding), eight or so. Now we are talking EXPENSIVE, not just expensive like Rambus, but EXPENSIVE.

DDR-II, which is what you mean, will have about the same latency as Rambus, but you can get around it, just the same way that you get around Rambus latency, you add more channels and you get an on-die mem-interface.

Check your facts.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[PCResources]

For anyone who didn't understand this: DDR-II (or QDR) ISN'T SDRAM, the design looks a lot more like RBDRAM.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[RagingGuardian]

Umm I did and that's what I got. I could be completely wrong but It think not. Only time will tell which memory makes it into the mainstream but I don't think it'll be Rambus. Maybe another company can adopt serial memory and do good things with it because we are afterall reaching the limitations of SDRAM. Then again rambus will just sue and live off that.

I hate the company, not the memory technology It even rhymes

 

[fkloster]

PC, is this DDR-II still parallel architecture? Wow that 'real-world' implementation will be fascinating!!

 

[PCResources]

I see a lot of posts about 1.6 and PC2100.

With Rambus, you can have 8 memory channels, running at 1Ghz each, with SDRAM, or DDR you can have 1 channel running at 266Mhz, max.

There is a reason for the 8bit serial interface.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[fkloster]

PC, isn't that 16 bit data path (serial interface?)?

 

[RagingGuardian]

PC have you come into contact with DDR2? I have a feeling that the memory you are refering to and QDR are different.

 

[PCResources]

Yeah, 16 bit, i'm getting tired, the time here is 23.11...

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[PCResources]

<< PC have you come into contact with DDR2? I have a feeling that the memory you are refering to and QDR are different. >>



Well, as 400Mhz on a SDRAM bus would be very difficult, and as i have yet to hear anything about QDR from the memory makers, i do not think so.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[PCResources]

<< PC, is this DDR-II still parallel architecture? Wow that 'real-world' implementation will be fascinating!! >>



Yes, DDR-II is still parallel, but, it utilizes an interface that looks a lot like the Rambus.

That implementation will soon be reality! in the 21364.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources

 

[NOX]

<< You do have to admit the price delta between the two is rahter huge though. >>


Oh yes, I have on many occasions. But if you were suggesting Rambus performs poorly compared to SDRAM (PC-100/133) I would have to disagree. Though SDRAM outperforms RIMMS on many benchmarks it does hold its own on many instances. The fact RIMMS are more then double what you pay for SDR is what people are most upset about etc?(IMO).


<< It's obvious from that article that Intel is trying to dissociate itself from the very bad feeling that RAMBUS has generated. >>


No ones disputing that fact. The only thing I would add is that Intel is apart of this bad feeling, and it is now trying to find an excuse to back out of their contract.

BTW: As much as Intel says Rambus has not come through for them, Rambus can easily turn around and suggest Intel has failed to provide adequate or the type of technology needed to support their memory.

 

[Noriaki]

QDR SDRAM would be SDRAM that transmits 4 packets of data / clock cycle, similar to the P4 bus. Much how DDR SDRAM is SDRAM that transmits 2 packets of data / clock cycle.

QDR SDRAM and DDR-II ARE NOT the same thing. I have however seen no particular indication that QDR SDRAM is every going to become a reality. I think it's more of a techie daydream. From what I've heard DDR-II is more like a serial memory technology. I don't know if it's anything like Rambus or SDRAM, or whatnot, but DDR-II is not QDR SDRAM, they are quite different. I could be mistaken here, but that's my take on the situation.

As for Rambus? The company is a bunch of a$$holes, but they have a very well designed product. I think that RDRAM is not yet ready to be used in PCs, it's close but not quite, I think Intel jumped the gun a bit and RDRAM has gotten a very bad name for it. IMHO it's still too expensvie, but then IMHO SDRAM is to expensvie right now. So maybe I'm just too damn cheap.

I think that in the future when Rambus matures a little it has a shot at being a very good technology, or perhaps not Rambus and some new serial technology.
Face it guys Serial is the way of the future.
SerialATA, USB, FireWire...and in bigger areas, I'm not quite sure what the connection is, but what we use to connect out AS/400s to their hard drive racks is not parrallel either. It's a very thin high speed orange cable (some variety of fibre channel I think, but I don't know very much about fibre).
Hard drives will be serial, a few years from now almost anything external will be USB or FireWire, doen't it make sense to have high speed serial memory?

 

[Sohcan]

It seems that the (IMHO soon-to-be) failure of Rambus and RDRAM is tied to the P3 and the delay of the P4.

- It's evident that RDRAM offers very little/no performance benefit with the P3 and GTL+ bus. The FSB between the CPU and northbridge only has a bandwidth of 1.06 GB/sec (same as PC133 SDRAM), limiting the 1.6 GB/sec bandwidth of Rambus.

- The double-pumped 400 MHz bus of the i850 will match the FSB bandwidth with that of dual-channel RDRAM (3.2 GB/sec).

- When Intel signed the agreement with Rambus in '96 or '97, Willy/P4 and the i850 was supposed to have been released by the end of 1999 (where Rambus would have made a larger difference), but delays forced Intel to make the Coppermine/i820, a platform where RDRAM was hindered.

- When i820 is finally introduced, RDRAM yields are still incredibly low, and RDRAM carries a huge price premium over SDRAM.

- With the introduction of the Athlon, AMD finally becomes a major player in the performance CPU market. They follow the DRAM industry with the adoption of DDR SDRAM as an intermediary solution, providing high bandwidth at a low implementation cost.

- Faced with lackluster acceptance, Rambus tries to force its patent of SDR and DDR SDRAM (illegally, I might add, since the standards were developed at open JEDEC sessions). The plan is to force DRAM makers to adopt a licensing scheme that will price RDRAM between SDR and DDR SDRAM. The industry fights back, with Micron and Infineon filing anti-trust lawsuits.

- Intel finally admits that they're fed up with Rambus (the company), secretly developing a DDR SDRAM chipset (Brookdale), apparently in violation of their agreement with Rambus. It is rumored that Intel has been giving it's DDR SDRAM memory controller technology to Via, in order to prop up the platform for the P4.

While RDRAM had good intentions (high bandwidth, serial interface, low pin count), it was set back by P4 delays, low performance with P3/GLT+ bus, and the greed of Rambus.

 

[Midnight Rambler]

Something to not forget about the Intel/RAMBUST &quot;pact&quot;. Intel's main obligation is to ensure that at least 20% of its total chipsets shipped support RAMBUST, otherwise they stand to gain nothing from their RAMBUST holdings. So they toss a &quot;bone&quot; to VIA in the mean time and choose to ship fewer chipsets themselves.

 

[SmackDown]

Just checked the Rambus prices on PriceWatch.

Samsung RDRAM 128MB ECC PC-800MHz $186

Wow, not bad. If the technology is properly implemented, and prices drop a wee bit more, I would have no problems buying Rambus for my systems

 

[PCResources]

<< QDR SDRAM and DDR-II ARE NOT the same thing. I have however seen no particular indication that QDR SDRAM is every going to become a reality >>



So what the heck is QDR SDRAM?? Something discussed at forums, or something real?

I have contacts with the designers of all the major memory companys, and nobody knows what it is, everyone says: You probably mean DDR-II.

Get me one good link to any site presenting anything at all about QDR, please.

As for the DDR-II, it will be a paralell packeted interface.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources