Intel CEO slams Rambus

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PCResources

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<< QDR SDRAM and DDR-II ARE NOT the same thing. I have however seen no particular indication that QDR SDRAM is every going to become a reality. >>



So basically, what you are saying is that this technology is not a valid one? Just one for those who wish it were so?

Well, otherwise, just give me one link, just one, to any place on the internet that mentions QDR as a valid technology.

DDR-II will not be serial, it will be a paralell packeted interface.

http://www.jedec.org/DOWNLOAD/pub21/HotDDR/DDR_II_evolution.pdf

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources


 

PCResources

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Oct 4, 2000
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Yes, QDR SRAM, i know of this, but this is the kind of RAM used for caches. And it will NEVER EVER be used as an alternative to SDRAM.

SRAM consists of four transistors and one resistor per cell, SDRAM only uses one transistor per cell. This is a HUGE difference.

I'll try to be a bit more clear about this, give me ONE link that mentions QDR SDRAM.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources
 

PCResources

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I forgot to mention, as the SRAM is never used in the same way that SDRAM is, QDR works for SRAM, but not for SDRAM.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources
 

Sohcan

Platinum Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Yes, I know the difference between SRAM and DRAM, we're covering SRAM cell arrays in one of my circuits classes now .

QDR SDRAM is really just a pipedream. I have heard some vague rumors of dual-channel DDR SDRAM, but I don't think it would be feasible due to the high pin count.
 

Windogg

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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IIRC, I read something on QDR and started a thread a while back. QDR will run memory like 2 hard drives running RAID0.

Windogg
 

PCResources

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<< IIRC, I read something on QDR and started a thread a while back. QDR will run memory like 2 hard drives running RAID0. >>



That would be a serial interface then, just like Rambus. What would be the point of that, maybe to give Rambus a real reason to sue.

If anyone can provide me with any kind of informantion about QDR, i'll review it and maybe even use it.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
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PCResources:

About the only thing that I've seen is an older article in EBNews

There is a thread on here from back in June where a memory designer from (IIRC) Germany and I discussed what it was and how it works, but we were just guessing.
 

PCResources

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PM!

Thank you very much, this was a very interesting article, i will check this out. I will get back to the forum with any news that i get regarding this design.

Patrick Palm

Am speaking for PC Resources
 

pm

Elite Member Mobile Devices
Jan 25, 2000
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Thanks, Nox and Sumner, I didn't realize that they'd made a prelim standard (I'm getting behing in my EETimes reading, I guess).

I read through the .pdf. I may be mistaken but I'm not sure that DDR II is the same as QDR. DDR2 looks like quad-pumped SDRAM (data transfer four times in a clock cycle which is just an evolution of DDR) with the internal core running at four times the FSB frequency. If I understand it correctly, QDR achieves a similar effect at by essentially switching between two different memory banks that are half out of phase with each other and are running at twice the FSB frequency.

The difference between them (if I'm right and there even in a difference - I might be reading these wrong), is minor and is an implementation difference. The end result should be approximately the same.
 

rc5

Platinum Member
Oct 13, 1999
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Everyone knew rambus gay from the very beginning. I feel sorry for those of you invested on rambus chips.
 

ammon

Junior Member
Apr 26, 2000
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I believe the problem with Rambus is the memory control specifications written by Rambus. I read that the Alpha processors team decided not to use Rambus' specs, and are writing their own (and on chip). I believe this posted at jc-news.

Does anyone here know of &quot;MRam&quot; it seems that this is the real &quot;Memory of the Future&quot;. Rambus is only a serial variant of SD-Ram. Not exciting technology at all. I can't understand all the fuss made over it. I searched this website and couldn't find anything about &quot;MRam&quot;, however &quot;Wired&quot; seems to have an article about it. It this ever comes out you can enjoy laughing about how people called Rambus &quot;Futuristic&quot;




http://www.wirednews.com/wired/archive/8.04/mram.html
 

PCResources

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Oct 4, 2000
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Ammon:

The excitement over Rambus memory is justified. Here we have a memory design that can be used in REALLY high speeds, multiple channels, and will soon deliver about 12Gb/s. Shouldn't we be excited about this?

The MRAM is not in the near future, it will take about 5-10 years before you will be able to buy it. There is a downside to the magnetic charge solution too, latency, if you think the latency of the rambus modules is bad, then you will truly be dissapointed in MRAM.

You see, electical charge can move at the maximum speed of the electrons, but the magnetical charge has to wait for the signal to reach enough power. This means about 500-1000ns, compared to the 5-8ns you usually see in SDRAM circuits today. This might or might not be resolved, there will surely be some interesting mem-designs presented before the coming of MRAM.

Patrick palm

Am speaking for PC Resources
 

Midnight Rambler

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Here's an interesting tidbit about Craig Barrett's recent comments on RAMBUST:


<< A spokesman for Intel, Santa Clara, Calif., said he believed the quotes to be accurate and representative of a viewpoint Barrett has held for about six months. >>


And another, referring to comments Paul Otellini made in the Intel conference call:


<< Otellini's comments also potentially confirm a two-week-old report by Electronic Buyers' News. Several major DRAM producers and module makers have told EBN that they are shipping unbuffered DIMMs to Intel in large enough quantities to validate a DDR chipset. >>


 

OneEng

Senior member
Oct 25, 1999
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WOW! I would have never thought that so many people would in this forum would be so misinformed.

RAMBUS serial protocol memory is NOT a good technology for PC's. It never will be, not today, and not 10 years from now.

Modern CPU's run at MANY times the speed of their external memory. When the program requests memory that is not found in the L1 or L2 cache, an external memory access is necessary.

This type of execution requires many small memory accesses from main memory. In this kind of transaction, the latency (time required to get the first byte of information) is the majority of the time necessary to get the data. Since a serial protocol RAM requires much more time to access small instances of memory, it will ALWAYS be slower than low latency DRAM or DDRAM. The only advantage RAMBUS ever had was in benchmarks that required large volumes of continous memory to be piped from main memory to somewhere else such as some 3D games. In these benchmarks, RAMBUS compared favoribly to PC100 memory. With i815, RAMBUS doesn't even look so good in high bandwidth benchmarks.

With the advent of DDRAM, the latency will be even further reduced (and with DDRII even further). This will permanently place SDRAM and its variants way above the performance of RAMBUS in PC systems (game consoles are a different subject).

As for manufacturability, RAMBUS really just plain sucks. In order to be any kind of serious PC memory, it must be 800Mhz (or higher). This speed of any part is difficult to yield high on and will inhearently be more expensive (Duh) and produce more heat and require more power. A small data bus with a much higher clock is one of the most stupid ideas I have ever heard in my 15 year career as an electrical engineer.

Serial protocol RAM is doomed to fail. The nature of modern processors makes the high latency of this technology unacceptible in the extream. Even if price were not a factor, RAMBUS would have no hope of competing with DDR.

If you want to see the future of memory devices for PC applications, you need look no further than the latest video cards. These devices will contain the best performance memory the industry can provide since they have no need to maintain compatibilty in memory subsystems as do PC motherboards. I understand that higher speed DDR is soon to be availible in video cards soon to be followed by QDR and possibly DDRII versions of the highest end video cards. IMHO these are the memory standards of the future. RAMBUS will be a great joke told over technical discussions for years to come while SDRAM and its variants will continue to evolve.
 

Remnant2

Senior member
Dec 31, 1999
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Actually, one thing someone was saying about the possibility of dual-channel SDRAM systems. Surprise! they already exist. ALI created a dual-channel SDRAM interface (128bit wide) for the socket-7 market. They put it in place mainly because it was integrated with the video also, so that the performance benefits weren't all that hot because the main memory bandwidth was eaten into by the video bandwidth.

But this proves it is certainly doable. It was reviewed @ Tom's a while ago. It would be really interesting if ALI was to apply this to their coming DDR chipsets. 4200mbps, low-latency memory interface, would be terrific.

edit: Total speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if Intel did this for the P4. dual-channel sdram would provide the same bandwidth that their current rambus solution provides, but at a lower latency. If Intel does this, then RDRAM is truly dead on the PC for the next few years, at least.

Regarding rambus's fundamental super/inferiority, one thing to remember : Alpha went with rambus for their new chip because of its extraordinarily high bandwidth-per-pin. With an 8 channel rdram interface, they get massive bandwidth, and by integrating the ram controller onto the chip itself, latency goes way below SDRAM+discrete controller. If SDRAM was integrated it would have a similar benefit, but single or dual-channel SDRAM would add too many pins to already complex processor pin-outs.

So serial ram might have something going for it in the future. But if so, I'd prefer it to be an open standard, rather than Rambus's proprietary design.
 

pen^2

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Apr 1, 2000
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ahhh... rambust doesnt mean a thing unless it can give a smackdown to sdram... all this ranting reminded of this guy one the anandtech who bought himself rdram and was braggin/ramblin about it... yes, the much dreaded i820 was what he had
 

inquis

Member
Jul 19, 2000
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QDR != DDR-II.

QDR is double pumped DDR. DDR-II is serial, like RAMBUS. The memory manufacturers are fighting over which one they want to use after DDR. Does that answer your questions, PC?

-inq
 

inquis

Member
Jul 19, 2000
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holy sh|t, i just checked pricewatch on RDRAM, PC800 is going for cheap...

/me thinks about buying an i840 board... mmmm... dual channel...

-inq
 

inquis

Member
Jul 19, 2000
181
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holy sh|t, i just checked pricewatch on RDRAM, PC800 is going for cheap...

/me thinks about buying an i840 board... mmmm... dual channel...

-inq
 
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