Intel "Coffee Lake" Builders Thread

[epsilon84]

Here you go again, can any of the mods check this falsehood

205 / 148 = ~38.5% ST advantage to the 8700K vs 1800X.

Baiting is not allowed, or inciting a flamewar
Markfw
Anandtech Moderator

Here, the 8700K is ~29.5% faster in ST performance.

I stand by my 30 - 40% ST claim

May I ask, since you seem to get really irritated by my repeated claims of significant Intel ST superiority (which I've now backed up with benchmarks) what is your estimate of the ST performance gap between AMD and Intel, either at stock speeds or max overclocks?

 

[R0H1T]

205 / 148 = ~38.5% ST advantage to the 8700K vs 1800X.

Here, the 8700K is ~29.5% faster in ST performance.

I stand by my 30 - 40% ST claim

May I ask, since you seem to get really irritated by my repeated claims of significant Intel ST superiority (which I've now backed up with benchmarks) what is your estimate of the ST performance gap between AMD and Intel, either at stock speeds or max overclocks?

You're not using fixed clocks, so even between Intel chips (say KBL vs CFL) there can be lots of variations in ST performance. A better gauge would be setting clocks to say 4GHz & benchmark any of these processors, you also have to remember only base clocks are guaranteed & not turbo.

 

[epsilon84]

You're not using fixed clocks, so even between Intel chips (say KBL vs CFL) there can be lots of variations in ST performance. A better gauge would be setting clocks to say 4GHz & benchmark any of these processors, you also have to remember only base clocks are guaranteed & not turbo.

Why do you need fixed clocks to determine Intel has faster ST performance? Please re-read what I posted, I said Intel has 30 - 40% faster ST performance due to a combination of higher IPC and higher clockspeed. I still don't see how I am wrong there?

OK, I'm going to ask what is your estimate of the ST disparity between, for example, a 8700K @ 5GHz compared to Ryzen @ 4GHz? Since you seem convinced my 30 - 40% estimate is so far off the mark.

 

[R0H1T]

Why do you need fixed clocks to determine Intel has faster ST performance? Please re-read what I posted, I said Intel has 30 - 40% faster ST performance due to a combination of higher IPC and higher clockspeed. I still don't see how I am wrong there?

Yes but when you're OCing it's not apples vs apples or even apples vs oranges, there's just too many variables involved. OCing is basically Your Mileage Will Vary imo.

IPC is independent of clockspeed, Intel simply has better IPC than Ryzen, and not by an insignificant amount either. That, combined with a 20% clockspeed advantage (5GHz vs 4GHz avg max overclocks) means ST is not 'likely' to be better, it is a certainty. Pure ST performance of Intel is FAR better than AMD, unless you are saying a 30 - 40% deficit is not significant?

Why do you say avg max overclock? Do you have any verifiable data to support this claim?

 

[epsilon84]

Why do you need fixed clocks to determine Intel has faster ST performance? Please re-read what I posted, I said Intel has 30 - 40% faster ST performance due to a combination of higher IPC and higher clockspeed. I still don't see how I am wrong there?

Yes but when you're OCing it's not apples vs apples or even apples vs oranges, there's just too many variables involved.
Why do you say avg max overclock? Do you have any verifiable data to support this claim?

Because the majority of 7700Ks can overclock to 5GHz, the same applies to Ryzen overclocking to 4GHz. If you actually bothered to read a few reviews or check overclocking threads of the respective chips you would know this and not have to demand 'proof' for what is common knowledge amongst overclockers.

Of course 8700K overclocking results are yet to be seen (it's not even released), but I don't think 5GHz is unrealistic at all considering Coffee Lake is 14nm++, a more refined 14nm process than Kaby Lake.

You are just moving the goalposts now because you tried to call me out for posting 'fake' ST numbers and I've backed it up with proof. This is getting tiring.

 

[R0H1T]

Because the majority of 7700Ks can overclock to 5GHz, the same applies to Ryzen overclocking to 4GHz. Of course 8700K overclocking results are yet to be seen (it's not even released), but I don't think 5GHz is unrealistic at all considering Coffee Lake is 14nm++, a more refined 14nm process than Kaby Lake.

You are just moving the goalposts now because you tried to call me out for posting 'fake' ST numbers and I've backed it up with proof. This is getting tiring.

You would have a point if this was purely stock vs stock with 7700k leading 1800x in ST, even you can't guarantee 7700k OCing to 5GHz in most conditions can you? If not stop saying such things & then doubling down on the same point.

 

[epsilon84]

You would have a point if this was purely stock vs stock with 7700k leading 1800x in ST, even you can't guarantee 7700k OCing to 5GHz in most conditions can you? If not stop saying such things & then doubling down on the same point.

Of course overclocking isn't guaranteed, but if you see the amount of 7700Ks overclocked to 5GHz you would realise this isn't an unrealstic figure at all, and neither is Ryzen at 4GHz.

But if its statistics you are after, this took me seconds to google. I typed in 'average 7700K overclock'.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1621347/kaby-lake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics

Sample Size 60
Average OC 5.03 Median OC 5.00
Average Vcore 1.36 Median Vcore 1.36

Again, I ask of you, since you say my claim of a 30 - 40% ST deficit is wrong, what is YOUR estimate of the ST gap between Intel and AMD?

 

[Glo.]

Again, I ask of you, since you say my claim of a 30 - 40% ST deficit is wrong, what is YOUR estimate of the ST gap between Intel and AMD?

Go and look at how the difference from Cinebench is reflected in REAL WORLD, and real world applications. You do not need estimates for this.


Can we now stop seeing Bias towards ANY company in the BUILDERS thread, and get back to topic?

 

[epsilon84]

Go and look at how the difference from Cinebench is reflected in REAL WORLD, and real world applications. You do not need estimates for this.

Can we now stop seeing Bias towards ANY company in the BUILDERS thread, and get back to topic?

Excuse me, but I was the one who was being attacked for stating 'false' numbers. I provided benchmark numbers to prove my point.

But yes, I agree that this thread has been derailed enough.

 

[R0H1T]

Of course overclocking isn't guaranteed, but if you see the amount of 7700Ks overclocked to 5GHz you would realise this isn't an unrealstic figure at all, and neither is Ryzen at 4GHz.

But if its statistics you are after, this took me seconds to google. I typed in 'average 7700K overclock'.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1621347/kaby-lake-overclocking-guide-with-statistics

Sample Size 60
Average OC 5.03 Median OC 5.00
Average Vcore 1.36 Median Vcore 1.36

Again, I ask of you, since you say my claim of a 30 - 40% ST deficit is wrong, what is YOUR estimate of the ST gap between Intel and AMD?

On avg, by that I mean stock 7700k vs 1800x, 20~30% atm depending on clock speed & application.

https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1950?vs=1826
https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/1950?vs=1832

 

[Zucker2k]

Go and look at how the difference from Cinebench is reflected in REAL WORLD, and real world applications. You do not need estimates for this.


Can we now stop seeing Bias towards ANY company in the BUILDERS thread, and get back to topic?

I agree with you, but he did use cinebench to back up his claim. The only reason why a chip like the 1600x is the best selling AMD chip is because it overclocks as well as the top, more expensive chips. We cannot abandon overclocking all of a sudden because it's not "apples to apples" lol. SMH. In any case, the point is moot; the 8700k runs at a default single-thread turbo of 4.7GHZ!!!

 

[DooKey]

Please get back on topic. We don't need AMD crap in an Intel builders thread.

 

[slashy16]

Not sure where you read that. While it's true, that a 5Ghz OCed Intel 6th / 7th / 8th-gen Core chip will likely have better IPC and better ST speeds than Ryzen, Ryzen is FAR, FAR from "horrible" ST performance. It's not like BullDozer and friends. It's quite snappy, my OCed Ryzen 3 1200 (@3.80Ghz) is faster than my G4560 (@3.50Ghz, stock).

I'm a hardware enthusiast and I'm not wooed by lower IPC at the expense of cores. I'm not running a server. 8700k is the first hex core processor on the market that will be the best at everything single\dual\q\hex.

 

[crashtech]

As a participant and likely CFL builder, I would respectfully ask that other participants be mindful that this is a build thread, and as such is not the appropriate venue for arguing about performance re other CPUs.

Pretty please let us focus on the best parts for a CFL build as they become available!

 

[ozzy702]

Please get back on topic. We don't need AMD crap in an Intel builders thread.

Agreed. AMD fanbois, please leave this thread alone. I'd love to get some concrete info for my next build.

 

[psolord]

So.....after the disappointment of the z370 taichi will there be a mobo with 10 sata?

 

[Crono]

Two 1070Ti? A single 1080Ti or superclocked 1080 would be better.

I'm aware of that, it's for mining when I'm not gaming (may substitute with Vega 56/64, but it depends on what is actually in stock and reasonably priced).

It's unforunate, but both AMD and Nvidia have decided to pull back on multi-GPU, so it definitely wouldn't be worth it just for gaming.

 

[phillyman36]

Going for
i7 8700k
Asus Maximus Hero X (sucks that I have a Maximus IX and cant use it) Asus seems to always be last in putting up new info on mobo on their website I want those pdfs lol
GSkill Trident z 3200
Still waiting to see which ram most of you are going with.

 

[Abwx]

205 / 148 = ~38.5% ST advantage to the 8700K vs 1800X.

I stand by my 30 - 40% ST claim

It stand thanks to willfully innaccurate numbers, for one a 1800X at stock score 161 in CB R15 ST, so you should first start to get your numbers right, so much for the rest of your posts s claims.

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-07/amd-ryzen-3-1300x-1200-test/2/#diagramm-cinebench-r15

Edit : Same for CPU Z bench, at 462 the 1800x score should be 8.7% higher than what is displayed by what is obviously some kind of shill site....

In ST the 1800X is set at a fixed 3.67GHz in those doctored tests.....

 

[R0H1T]

It stand thanks to willfully innaccurate numbers, for one a 1800X at stock score 161 in CB R15 ST, so you should first start to get your numbers right, so much for the rest of your posts s claims.

https://www.computerbase.de/2017-07/amd-ryzen-3-1300x-1200-test/2/#diagramm-cinebench-r15

Edit : Same for CPU Z bench, at 462 the 1800x score should be 8.7% higher than what is displayed by what is obviously some kind of shill site....

In ST the 1800X is set at a fixed 3.67GHz in those doctored tests.....

You just have to look at the likes he got for that wild exaggeration i.e. fake news

 

[Arachnotronic]

You just have to look at the likes he got for that wild exaggeration i.e. fake news

Bro, this is the Coffee Lake builders thread. Can you please stop?

 

[R0H1T]

Bro, this is the Coffee Lake builders thread. Can you please stop?

Sure but I hope posts like 20% IPC over so & so (with zero factual basis) will also not be tolerated.

 

[Abwx]

Bro, this is the Coffee Lake builders thread. Can you please stop?

I dont think that R0H1T is at fault, on second thoughts i wonder if throwing and insisting with flawed datas in several posts wasnt actually a deliberate attempt to derail the thread and get it locked....

 

[Arachnotronic]

Sure but I hope posts like 20% IPC over so & so (with zero factual basis) will also not be tolerated.

IPC is not a static figure, it is dependent on the workload. The best you can hope to determine is the average perf/MHz across a representative set of workloads for your use case.

Anyway, let's not derail this further.

 

[R0H1T]

IPC is not a static figure, it is dependent on the workload. The best you can hope to determine is the average perf/MHz across a representative set of workloads for your use case.

Anyway, let's not derail this further.

No problem, perhaps the mods can clean this thread, including all of my irrelevant posts?