Intel "Coffee Lake" Builders Thread

[Arachnotronic]

Intel is now on the "third" generation of the exact same architecture and yet somehow on the third motherboard chipset.

They added 50% more cores to the chip and frequency ceiling is much higher than the first-gen version of this "exact same architecture," as you put it.

More cores means greater power delivery requirements, it's as simple as that.

If Intel maintained backwards compatibility but people couldn't get the maximum overclock out of the chip (or blew their boards up), then you would have people complaining on the forums about how Intel misled customers by claiming backwards compatibility.

Basically, Intel couldn't have won this battle either way, so might as well do it right with a revised socket/platform design.

 

[Markfw]

Wow...Ryzen recommendation in an Intel build thread. Feels like home.

Under different circumstances, that might be bad, but when the thread is about building a system using CPU's that are virtually not available world-wide, I can see why. Look at crashtechs case!!

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Thanks guys, I will just hold out for my 8700k then. Sorry to be so uncertain, I get like this every single time I go to buy a new build. I get so nervous anytime I am spending more then $600+ on personal toys for my self that I really dont need but know its more of a want type of thing. Its like I get a little devil on one shoulder telling me buy buy buy and an angle on the other telling no no no and all I can tell myself is should I or shouldn't I...

 

[Arachnotronic]

Thanks guys, I will just hold out for my 8700k then. Sorry to be so uncertain, I get like this every single time I go to buy a new build. I get so nervous anytime I am spending more then $600+ on personal toys for my self that I really dont need but know its more of a want type of thing. Its like I get a little devil on one shoulder telling me buy buy buy and an angle on the other telling no no no and all I can tell myself is should I or shouldn't I...

General rule of thumb: Ask yourself what it is you actually want and go with that. Going with a compromise solution always creates regrets later.

 

[Markfw]

Just how hot is Coffee Lake?

To save some reading, here is the last paragraph summing it all up:

"It's certainly easier to cool an overclocked Ryzen CPU thanks to its soldered heat spreader, but it's hard to argue that one isn't getting more out of overclocking the Core i7-8700K in many tasks despite its higher temperatures. That fact should be part of the value consideration when setting out to overclock either chip. Whether Intel is doing the best it can to support overclocking on its chips through its thermal interface material of choice is another question, and it's one that's raged since Ivy Bridge and coursed through Devil's Canyon. Coffee Lake doesn't do anything to quench the flames. Folks seeking the lowest load temperatures and highest possible overclocking headroom from Coffee Lake chips will likely need to reach for liquid-metal TIM, their delid tool of choice, and a hefty liquid cooler or giant tower heatsink. At stock speeds, though, the i7-8700K should be fine with the same Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo that's graced countless systems. Just be sure to terminate any multi-core enhancement settings in your motherboard's firmware with extreme prejudice first."

 

[IRobot23]

Intel could simply solder all K CPUs. Everyone would be happy, nobody would mind paying 20$.

 

[TahoeDust]

Jesus...Now the plucking of negative, pro-ryzen, bits in an article and re-pasting them in bold in a intel build thread? I'm sure it was just to let prospective builders know that to get the highest possible overclock they are going to want to delid, right? You left out the part of the article explaining that a large contributing factor to the intel chips running hotter is that it has twice the AVX vector units per core.

This is getting re-<redacted>-diculous.

Profanity is not allowed in the technical forums
Markfe
Anandtech Moderator

 

[Arachnotronic]

Intel could simply solder all K CPUs.

They probably don't because the chips are probably packaged up before they are binned for frequency.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Intel could simply solder all K CPUs.

Yeah would be nice..

 

[LTC8K6]

To save some reading, here is the last paragraph summing it all up:

"It's certainly easier to cool an overclocked Ryzen CPU thanks to its soldered heat spreader, but it's hard to argue that one isn't getting more out of overclocking the Core i7-8700K in many tasks despite its higher temperatures. That fact should be part of the value consideration when setting out to overclock either chip. Whether Intel is doing the best it can to support overclocking on its chips through its thermal interface material of choice is another question, and it's one that's raged since Ivy Bridge and coursed through Devil's Canyon. Coffee Lake doesn't do anything to quench the flames. Folks seeking the lowest load temperatures and highest possible overclocking headroom from Coffee Lake chips will likely need to reach for liquid-metal TIM, their delid tool of choice, and a hefty liquid cooler or giant tower heatsink. At stock speeds, though, the i7-8700K should be fine with the same Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo that's graced countless systems. Just be sure to terminate any multi-core enhancement settings in your motherboard's firmware with extreme prejudice first."

Nice bold cherry pick, but few of us are going to fail to check the article.
Just as few of us will ever de-lid a cpu to get a few more FPS.

 

[dullard]

Intel could simply solder all K CPUs.

It isn't that simple. With Coffee Lake going from room temp to ~100°C repeatedly (a ~80°C rise), that is a lot of thermal stress. It isn't like the days of old chips that max around 60°C or 70°C (a ~50°C rise). Sure, they could solder the chips for a minor overclocking boost but at the same time the chips would eat themselves alive with all that thermal strain.

What they could do is to solder the chips and lower the maximum temperature, making it throttle the speeds back far further, to end up with a slow chip just to satisfy a small minority of people who overclock to extremes.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

Generally how fast does tim dry up and need to be reapplied?Is this something I am going to have to worry about?

 

[LTC8K6]

Generally how fast does tim dry up and need to be reapplied?Is this something I am going to have to worry about?

If you want a Ryzen, buy a Ryzen.
It seems like you are trying to get us to talk you into it.
I've never heard of TIM under a heat spreader drying out and needing to be replaced.
Even if it did need to be replaced in 5 years, you can delid it and replace it.

 

[crashtech]

@Justinbaileyman , Intel's polymer TIM is extremely stable. It might not be the very best conductor of heat, but it does last far longer than any paste, that's for sure.

 

[Crono]

If you want a Ryzen, buy a Ryzen.

He bought a Ryzen before.

I like AMD and Ryzen (had a 1600 and 1700X, only just sold them), but I think the Coffee Lake processors will be less fraught with minor issues (Linux crashing/bugs, RAM compatibility, trying to figure out what actual temp is, high SoC voltages bricking early Crosshair VI Hero motherboards) than Ryzen was at launch, or even possibly now.

The big reason why is because Coffee Lake is essentially a refinement of Kaby Lake with more cores (as far as architecture goes - it's not an entirely new design like Ryzen), and Z370 is a relatively minor update to Z270, so most of the issues have been worked out, as far as I know.

I'm not trying to make this an Intel vs AMD debate (and I likely will make a Zen 2 build - I heart AMD ), but for justinbaileyman Coffee Lake might be a good choice, especially if he doesn't need to push absolute max OC with a delid.

 

[eddman]

Why some people are so fixated on doing "max OC"?! Why not go for 4.8 or even 4.7 GHz? 5.0 is just ~4% higher than 4.8 and the performance difference is not going to always be 4% either.

IMO that 4% is not worth the hassle of de-lidding and getting monster coolers, etc.

 

[Bouowmx]

i7-8700K, 4.7 GHz, 4.7 GHz cache/ring, AVX offset 4, tuned volts, air cooling like CRYORIG H7. What would power and temperature look like?

 

[IRobot23]

Why some people are so fixated on doing "max OC"?! Why not go for 4.8 or even 4.7 GHz? 5.0 is just ~4% higher than 4.8 and the performance difference is not going to always be 4% either.

IMO that 4% is not worth the hassle of de-lidding and getting monster coolers, etc.

De-lidding is always worth it (Intel CPU). It is just me or nobody cares about low temperatures?

 

[LTC8K6]

De-lidding is always worth it (Intel CPU). It is just me or nobody cares about low temperatures?

It never seems worth it, to me.

I don't need those last few FPS, and 10-15 degrees below throttle temp seems ok to me for a max temp.

 

[Justinbaileyman]

He bought a Ryzen before.

I like AMD and Ryzen (had a 1700X, only just sold it), but I think the Coffee Lake processors will be less fraught with minor issues (Linux crashing/bugs, RAM compatibility, trying to figure out what actual temp is, high SoC voltages bricking early Crosshair VI Hero motherboards) than Ryzen was at launch, or even possibly now.

The big reason why is because Coffee Lake is essentially refined Kaby Lake with more cores (as far as architecture goes - it's not an entirely new design like Ryzen) and Z370 is a relatively minor update to Z270, so most of the issues have been worked out (as far as I know).

I'm not trying to make this an Intel vs AMD debate (and I likely will make a Zen 2 build - I heart AMD ), but for justinbaileyman Coffee Lake might be a good choice, especially if he doesn't need to push absolute max OC with a delid.

Yeah I know the heartache and headaches I have had with 100% of all those issues mentioned above with my Ryzen and thought they were all fixed with a Motherboard swap or bios updates till other issues started popping up.Thought enough is enough and parted with my baby.So now its off to the races with CFL. No, no need for absolute max over clocking here. Maybe 4.6-5.0Ghz would be awesome for me for 24/7 use.Beside I guess I am needing more oomph out of single core more then needing multi but at the same time need more then 4 cores for random media encoding projects.I too will probably get a Zen 2 in the future.

 

[dbrons]

A question about my coffee lake build which will wait till I receive my 8700k. I've got a nice Corsair PS and a couple new hard drives. But I'm waiting to by everything else.
Does anyone know if any new model Fractal design imight be coming? I'm planning on the Define r5 as I love the R3 I've used in my 2600k system. I'd like to have it here so I can try to figure which way I want to go with my radiattor, but I hesitate because I read somewhere a r6 may be coming out.

Likewise with the ssd wondering if a 970 pro is going to be released by Samsung, No reason to buy this now so I'll just wait but curious.

I guess I'm saying I'm kida glad in a way to have a couple months to sort out a few things. Hopefully there will be some good MB reviews maybe some bugs worked out. I remember right after I built my Sandy Bridge system Asus came out with a new revision of the board fixing some minor thing. Also we might have a better idea how RAM works on the Z370.
Dave

 

[TahoeDust]

Does anyone know if any new model Fractal design imight be coming? I'm planning on the Define r5 as I love the R3 I've used in my 2600k system. I'd like to have it here so I can try to figure which way I want to go with my radiattor, but I hesitate because I read somewhere a r6 may be coming out.

I REALLY like their new Meshify C. Have you looked at that one yet?

 

[PeterScott]

I REALLY like their new Meshify C. Have you looked at that one yet?

I think the Meshify is inferior to their Define models. It has a foam filter behind metal mesh. It will be a massive pain t clean the dust out of the foam. The nylon filters on the Define will be MUCH easier to get out, and to clean when out.

 

[dbrons]

I REALLY like their new Meshify C. Have you looked at that one yet?

I got the notification about it but didn't look very closely . I will check it out, thanks

 

[Markfw]

Nice bold cherry pick, but few of us are going to fail to check the article.
Just as few of us will ever de-lid a cpu to get a few more FPS.

Their words. My only point was that other than stock, they run HOT, even just enabling that one bios setting that puts all cores@4.7, or a "factory" overclock and it was throttling. Other places here people said these run cool. Even at stock with an aftermarket HSF they were running 76c, which in my book is hot, none of my boxes, Xeons or otherwise get close to that temp.