Intel Core 2010: Arrandale and Clarkdale

[21stHermit]

What surprises me most about this comparison is E8400 vs. Core i3. They are near identical in terms of cores and GHz. Hence an indication of the generation gain in performance.

 

[jvroig]

Are you seeing anything at all? I don't understand what you are saying because all I see is a white image that says "pics.bbzzdd.com unauthorized referrer sorry ". Am I the only one who can't see the supposed chart(s)?

 

[21stHermit]

Looks like to me . You guys can buy these in retail on the 10th of dec. enjoy.your in for a treat.

Intel will begin sales of its Core i3, Core i5 and Pentium processors based on Clarkdale design on the 10th of December, 2009, to distributors, resellers and retailers, who may then sell central processing units, mainboards based on Intel Q57, Intel H55 and Intel H57 as well as other components to OEMs and other customers. Intel’s goal is to have systems based on the new chips available for sale by January 7, 2010, a source with knowledge of the matter said.

Good news indeed, earlier than I was expecting.

Merry Christmas!!!!

 

[21stHermit]

Are you seeing anything at all? I don't understand what you are saying because all I see is a white image that says "pics.bbzzdd.com unauthorized referrer sorry ". Am I the only one who can't see the supposed chart(s)?

Apparently so. I'm seeing a 1070 x 610 pixel graphic in bright orange. An image that truly says a thousand words.
The URL: http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/PlasmaBomb/1926714_gta4.jpg

BTW, the graphic is embedded in the forum, no clicking required.

 

[jvroig]

Apparently so. I'm seeing a 1070 x 610 pixel graphic in bright orange. An image that truly says a thousand words. The URL: http://pics.bbzzdd.com/users/PlasmaB...26714_gta4.jpg

This is crazy, I keep seeing only the unauthorized referrer image, even when I click on your URL. Why is that? Is it a Firefox thing? Or a Linux thing?

If anybody can tell me a way to see the chart, I would be most grateful. I want in on the topic, I feel left out

 

[21stHermit]

FWIW: WinXP SP2 Firefox 3.0.15

 

[jvroig]

Thanks. I finally saw it by pasting the URL in Epiphany web browser. (Weird. Firefox 3.0.15 in Fedora 10 isn't accepted? I feel discriminated upon )

Well, the Core i3 does beat the Athlon II X4, but not by a lot. Considering the IPC gap between an Athlon II and a Core ix, it's not that surprising.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I was talking about the 32nm CPU die. IIRC wolfdale is what, 107mm^2?
The northbridge die is undoubtedly smaller than a G45 NB die, too.

Ilkhan, the GMCH in Arrandale/Clarkdale is ~120mm2. G45 is only 98mm2(Intel datasheets: Thermal and Mechanical Guidelines).

Oh, and I just saw the PCOnline Clarkdale review. It's looking good. It's performing well in GTA4 because it benefits well from Hyperthreading. Plus Hyperthreading will be a LOT more useful because most apps are 4 threaded.

 

[PlasmaBomb]

I only see an unauthorized referrer image:

bbzzdd is associated with AT, should be fine... the image sizing is why I didn't just post it...

 

[ilkhan]

Ilkhan, the GMCH in Arrandale/Clarkdale is ~120mm2. G45 is only 98mm2(Intel datasheets: Thermal and Mechanical Guidelines).

hmm. Well its using QPI instead of FSB to connect to the CPU, and the GPU itself must be a bit bigger, then. Lots of extra fun transistors doing graphical stuff.

Plus Hyperthreading will be a LOT more useful because most apps are 4 threaded.

"most apps are 4 threaded?" In what decade, the 2020s?

I think people need to take a step back here. MOST apps are inherently single threaded, and MOST apps don't need anything more than a P3 @ 1Ghz or so. Its the few who are inherently parallel AND need more speed that benefit from current/upcoming CPUs.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Perhaps I should be a little bit more clear here. Most modern apps take advantage of >2 cores.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-cores-performance,2373.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/multi-core-cpu,2280.html

The reason that Clarkdale's HT looks comparatively better than Bloomfield/Lynnfield's HT is because the 4 physical cores are enough to be fully used in lots of apps, causing HT to be either useless/resource contention, while in Clarkdale, the 2 physical cores are not.

*The review seems to confirm PCWatch's Core i3 having Hyperthreading*

 

[evident]

damn. my e8400 is a piece of crap now /sarcasm, but not really

 

[aigomorla]

hey IU, did you assume the sale reports are due to the increase sales on the ATOM processor and not normal desktop processors?

I mean if u think about it, since the launch of netbooks, i think they took up a considerable market in the cpu world no?

Also i think its fair and safe to say, the number of notebooks have doubled in the past 2 yrs.
Since notebooks are all majority on dual core or less.

 

[IntelUser2000]

No I did not, actually. Now that you mention it, that makes sense. I did not realize the graph was based on combined Desktop/Mobile sales when I made the post, thanks.

Yes, quad core takes 20% of DT market. So that puts dual cores like 75%+ or so(less than 5% due to Nettops/misc single cores). 2010 will inflate the dual core market due to Clarkdale however. The high end Clarkdale will absorb cheaper Lynnfield chips and most of Core 2 Quad chips.

 

[VirtualLarry]

So is the consensus that Core2Quad is now going to become obsolete? Shame, I just picked up two Q9550s, along with my two Q9400s that I got six months ago, and my Q6600s that I picked up last year. I wish I had stocked up on DDR2 like I did CPUs though.

 

[cbn]

I just want to see how these i3s overclock on the stock cooler (or using Core i5 750 cooler).

 

[21stHermit]

So is the consensus that Core2Quad is now going to become obsolete?

Not at all. In heavily threaded application quads will outperform an i3 Clarkdale. If you read some of the many test in the i3 vs ... comparison article, the X3 and Quads still have their place. In computations per watt (if theirs such a measurement), i3 smokes all comers.

BTW, the Google translation, Chinese > English, works very well, except for text in the JPEG's.

 

[CheesePoofs]

I'm really looking forward to the LV and ULV arrandale chips + discrete graphics card, assuming systems using them with working switchable graphics can come out by early January. Hopefully?!

 

[cbn]

I'm really looking forward to the LV and ULV arrandale chips + discrete graphics card, assuming systems using them with working switchable graphics can come out by early January. Hopefully?!

I don't think they have switchable graphics planned for desktop do they?

 

[CheesePoofs]

Oh, I meant to be referring to the mobile variants.

 

[ilkhan]

Perhaps I should be a little bit more clear here. Most modern apps take advantage of >2 cores.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-cores-performance,2373.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/multi-core-cpu,2280.html

Since when do a tiny number of synthetic benchmarks MOST apps?

 

[IntelUser2000]

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/archspeed-2009-1-p1.html

For the target market it'll be at, I think it can apply.

See how games benefit a lot from 2-3 cores, and some even minor at 3-4? There's nothing at 4-8. Clarkdale's Hyperthreading will reach more users than Lynnfield/Bloomfield's. There are other apps which show similar behavior.

Anand's bench will also show going from 2 to 4 threads will have a merit(Athlon II X2 550BE vs. Phenom II X4 940).

 

[ilkhan]

What? The article doesn't go into 8 thread land.
And basically the summery says what I said, what daily use apps for normal consumers don't use or NEED quad cores. Sure, some people need the quads, they use specific apps that take advantage and need all the speed they can get. Thats not the everyday consumer's home machine.
"Quad-core processors are still professional products both in terms of per-core efficiency and efficiency-price ratios. They are for people, who understand what tasks they need to solve with these processors, and who are sure that the fourth core will be used by their software. They are items of prestige for common users or simply an unreasonable choice made under pressure of aggressive multicore marketing policies of CPU manufacturers."

 

[lopri]

A good news. It looks like current P55 boards will support Arrandale processors with BIOS updates. My guess is the current economic climate as well as less-than spectacular market acceptance forced Intel to change its usual strategy, but it is a refreshing and welcome change nonetheless. (of course the on-package GPU will be disabled in this scenario)

I found the following while searching on P55 boards.

 

[IntelUser2000]

This review shows the same games which drop from 4-8.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/intel-core-i7_8.html#sect0

EDIT: You have got your point across. I guess the differences are lower than I thought, and the "differences" that I'm talking about is more of nitpicking than anything. But there still is a difference, as games are showing.