Intel Core i7-3930K vs Xeon E5-2630 For Long-duration Financial Calculations

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dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
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The E3 1275 V2 (it has 4 cores, 8 threads due to HT) will be more than able to handle 4 VMs comfortably given you have enough system memory. I suggest 16gb DDR3 1600 ECC memory. Typical rule of thumb is allocate 2gb of ram per vm, so you'd need 8gb just for 4 VMs, and the rest to run your system.

(32gb bit overkill, but something you may want to consider for adding many more vms in the future).

If you want data integrity, ECC is a must. So the 3930k is kind of out of the picture.
The E5 1660 or the E3 1275 V2 are your best bet. I highly advise you NOT to go with the E5 2630~clock speeds are too slow, and you may end up regretting it like I did. Also keep in mind 2 socket systems do not scale exactly by doubling performance. Best case scanarios typically see about a 75% increase, which can lead you to question if you want to spend so much if you could have easily bough two separate single socket systems cheaper which will double productivity.

@Markfw900

Although that is a great deal, OP seems to indicate need for ECC memory, so only Xeons are feasible. Or I'd be all for it as well, especially at that price.

hello)) thank you for the utterly practical advises))) It woudl take me long to arrive at the Xeon e3-1275 v2 that you suggested)) I am certainly much more inclined to go this route now.....I mitgh start with a single Xeon e3-1275 v2 machine and buy some high end dual XEON later on...also considering this XEON is truly close to I7 3930 in performance - only fewer cores...thanks a lot!) I also wanted to ask - maybe you can let me know the kind of the calculations you are running on this machine non-stop - I wonder if you use EXCEL or Matlab?)
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
Here's a set up very similar to mine:

I use the same core parts (cpu ram and mobo), so they should be 100% compatible.

CPU: Xeon E3 1275 V2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819117282

MOBO ASUS P8C WS

(don't listen to troll reviews,it's a great board, that has a uefi bios and many premium features
you wont find on boards by supermicro or tyan but make sure to only use UNBUFFERED ecc memory)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813131849

RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuff. (4x4gb) you can go for 32gb as well, but 16 is definitely more than enough for 4vms
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820239226

Case : (great silent case ) Fractal Design Define R4
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...INE+R4&x=0&y=0

Power Supply: Seasonic G Series 550w modular (on sale for BF $55 AR till tomorrow)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...C%20G%20SERIES

Hard Drive 2TB Samsung
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822152245

SSD : samsung 830 : 128gb (May or may not need this? Will definitely make system snappier over all)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820147163

Monitor: BENQ 21.5 Inch 1080p (on sale for $99 till tomorrow)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824014298


I opted not to select a graphics card, because Integrated graphics on ivy are good enough for me. But this should be evaluated on a case by case basis.


thanks a lot for this superb list of the parts that you use))) I am certainly plannign to start with the motherboard and the CPU you suggested....I wanted to ask (already found them at the local distributors) - do you think any kind of the ECC ram will work with this cpu+motherboard combination? I mean can it be buffered? I did not find the RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC you suggested here....thanks a lot for your amazing help)
 

crazymonkeyzero

Senior member
Feb 25, 2012
363
0
0
thanks a lot for this superb list of the parts that you use))) I am certainly plannign to start with the motherboard and the CPU you suggested....I wanted to ask (already found them at the local distributors) - do you think any kind of the ECC ram will work with this cpu+motherboard combination? I mean can it be buffered? I did not find the RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC you suggested here....thanks a lot for your amazing help)

Unfortunately, only Unbuffered ECC will work with this Asus Board; which is the only con

You can try to find another 1155 server board, but be warned; many of these will not support Intel V2 chips, which are using the ivyb architecture. This can cause massive headaches, so this is why I suggested the Asus one.


EDIT: I found a board which DOES support Buffered ECC as well as the Xeon E3 V2 chip:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121620
 
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dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
thank you for your reply......I might search for for these)) I was wondering if REGISTERED ECC has any link to it being UNBUFFERED? THANKS A LOT AGAIN!)
 

crazymonkeyzero

Senior member
Feb 25, 2012
363
0
0
I found the following ECC memory at the local provider:

Kingston ValueRAM 4GB 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM ECC Unbuffered DDR3 1333 Server Memory Model KVR1333D3E9S/4G (www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?...82E16820139077)

I guess the only difference with the one you suggested is that it is lower frequency right? it can still be used in this combo?
thanks!))

Yep, that 1333 kingston should work fine as well because its unbuffered ECC. I take it, you have decided on the asus board?

Also

Registered Memory is essentially the exact same as Buffered Memory, just two different names.

Unbuffered Memory is different. So be careful what you buy.
 
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Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
Yep, that 1333 kingston should work fine as well because its unbuffered ECC. I take it, you have decided on the asus board?

Also

Registered Memory is essentially the exact same as Buffered Memory, just two different names.

Unbuffered Memory is different. So be careful what you buy.

Registered/Buffered memory has higher intrinsic latency from the IMC's perspective, right? So its not exactly a bad thing that he has to go with the lower-latency unbuffered ram.
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
Yep, that 1333 kingston should work fine as well because its unbuffered ECC. I take it, you have decided on the asus board?

Also

Registered Memory is essentially the exact same as Buffered Memory, just two different names.

Unbuffered Memory is different. So be careful what you buy.

yes I think Asus board woudl be great....I foudn it at local dealers!) I found this ram here as well:

Kingston 16GB 1600MHz DDR3 ECC CL11 DIMM (Kit of 4) - KVR16E11K4/16 (KVR1600D3E11SK4/16G)

it is the same memory as you recommended at first right??? just double-checked because they do not say UNBUFFERED anywhere...
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
KVR16E11K4/16

Is unbuffered so no worries. Just check newegg if you have any doubts.its the same memory


thank you for the confirmation....I wonder if you have experience running multiple VMS on the E3 1275V2 machine?) I can do this analysis in sequence or parallelize it through 4 vms.......I will think more about adding the VMS - with excel 2003 each running in one WinXP VM - this can be really fast to parallelize....I will combine the analytics from the separate VMS in the host machine.....the individual analysis could be done in excel 2003 but aggregating analysis and post-production woudl be done in excel 2010 which allows much more than the 2 gb of memory...software errors are likely but mos dependent on excel and matlab and vmware...I will test this setup and if it is suitable for daily work will stick with it - if no - will do all in sequence on the host machine...I am stuck with excel for now as taking it to an executable code would add a year to the project....do you think EXCEL 2010 on 4 cores will run faster than EXCEL 2003 on one core?
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
86
This is a bit of a deviation from what has been offered, but would running your workflow on a set of EC2 instances be an option? You would then be able to horizontally scale your load as much as you need and the cost is pretty low, especially compared to upgrading hardware yearly and performing maintenance.

I've only used EC2 for php, so I'm unsure of its complete capability.
 

aigomorla

CPU, Cases&Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
20,893
3,245
126
i will bet you 1000 cookies that ur memory / motherboard will fail b4 either of your cpu's will.

So u shouldnt be worried about either, and more focus on a rock solid board and memory.
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
This is a bit of a deviation from what has been offered, but would running your workflow on a set of EC2 instances be an option? You would then be able to horizontally scale your load as much as you need and the cost is pretty low, especially compared to upgrading hardware yearly and performing maintenance.

I've only used EC2 for php, so I'm unsure of its complete capability.

thank you for your suggestion....yes Amazon servers must be fine but I have limited experience using them....do I need to upload all my software to their server to perform the calculation?
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
i will bet you 1000 cookies that ur memory / motherboard will fail b4 either of your cpu's will.

So u shouldnt be worried about either, and more focus on a rock solid board and memory.


thank you for your reply.....yes maybe you can advise a proper board for the either i7 3930k setup or the xeon e3-1275v2 based setup? thanks alot!)
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
I wonder if you have tried running your i73930k for long periods of time..like 10 hours at the maximum load....I wonder how it behaved? lets say for 8-10 hours in a row....at 95% (no over-clocking) - did you see any hints of instability in its performance?
Thanks!
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
thank you for your generous attention!)

I need to introduce one more element into the equation...sorry to have left it out before....I need to spend quite some time outside of the Europe and USA - in eth Western Europe - where the server grade parts take a week to arrive - a week is intolerable time to wait for any part in case the setup fails....I will be providing the analysis each day and it needs to be updated on a daily basis...new signals can orccur any time...

for a server-based example, I have been recommended the followign excellent setup

CPU: Xeon E3 1275 V2
MOBO ASUS P8C WS
Kingstong RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuff. (4x4gb)

the cpu and motehrboard are more or less easily available here but the RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuff which is only accepted by this setup needs to be ordered and will take from 7 to 10 days to arrive.....I have not foudn otehr unuffered ECC on teh market now...

I mean if any part of this seup fails - Especially memory - I will need to replace it...but only within one weeks time....


if i go with the i7 3930k based setup - I shoudl be able to get any kind of the memory in no time at all from teh local PC shops...The XEON+ECC+SERVER mobo looks very reliable but if anythign beraks down I stand the chance of replacing the broken part much faster with the 3930k based setup....considering the power of 3930k I mitgh be able to crunch all data in a matter of 5 o6 hours so no need for 24/7 operation for now....

I will be doign maintenance myself at first - do you think a server-based setup mitghbe harder to maintain than a desctop based setup?

thanks!)
 

ALIVE

Golden Member
May 21, 2012
1,960
0
0
thank you for your generous attention!)

I need to introduce one more element into the equation...sorry to have left it out before....I need to spend quite some time outside of the Europe and USA - in eth Western Europe - where the server grade parts take a week to arrive - a week is intolerable time to wait for any part in case the setup fails....I will be providing the analysis each day and it needs to be updated on a daily basis...new signals can orccur any time...

for a server-based example, I have been recommended the followign excellent setup

CPU: Xeon E3 1275 V2
MOBO ASUS P8C WS
Kingstong RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuff. (4x4gb)

the cpu and motehrboard are more or less easily available here but the RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuff which is only accepted by this setup needs to be ordered and will take from 7 to 10 days to arrive.....I have not foudn otehr unuffered ECC on teh market now...

I mean if any part of this seup fails - Especially memory - I will need to replace it...but only within one weeks time....


if i go with the i7 3930k based setup - I shoudl be able to get any kind of the memory in no time at all from teh local PC shops...The XEON+ECC+SERVER mobo looks very reliable but if anythign beraks down I stand the chance of replacing the broken part much faster with the 3930k based setup....considering the power of 3930k I mitgh be able to crunch all data in a matter of 5 o6 hours so no need for 24/7 operation for now....

I will be doign maintenance myself at first - do you think a server-based setup mitghbe harder to maintain than a desctop based setup?

thanks!)

well what are the odds for all 4 sticks of ram to go bad?
if a stick of ram goes bad you can try to identify it and remove it from the system. Thus using the system with less memory and practically run fewer vm for that time.
Depending where you live have you consider a ups to power your system. Some parts of the world the power delivered is horrific for use for computers.
 
Sep 29, 2004
18,656
67
91
Don't forget to get a good UPS. If it is super critical, you might want to buy a gas generator.

Also, if hammering a hard drive alot for this, would it make sense to go SSD? Seems like when I hammer hard drives for years on end, drives die. And on that note, RAID 5?
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
well what are the odds for all 4 sticks of ram to go bad?
if a stick of ram goes bad you can try to identify it and remove it from the system. Thus using the system with less memory and practically run fewer vm for that time.
Depending where you live have you consider a ups to power your system. Some parts of the world the power delivered is horrific for use for computers.


yes thanks...a power solution liek that might come in handy)
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
Don't forget to get a good UPS. If it is super critical, you might want to buy a gas generator.

Also, if hammering a hard drive alot for this, would it make sense to go SSD? Seems like when I hammer hard drives for years on end, drives die. And on that note, RAID 5?

please do not hammer any more drives)
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
thank you for your generous attention!)

I need to introduce one more element into the equation...sorry to have left it out before....I need to spend quite some time outside of the Europe and USA - in eth Western Europe - where the server grade parts take a week to arrive - a week is intolerable time to wait for any part in case the setup fails....I will be providing the analysis each day and it needs to be updated on a daily basis...new signals can orccur any time...

for a server-based example, I have been recommended the followign excellent setup

CPU: Xeon E3 1275 V2
MOBO ASUS P8C WS
Kingstong RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuff. (4x4gb)

the cpu and motehrboard are more or less easily available here but the RAM 16GB DDR3 1600 ECC Unbuff which is only accepted by this setup needs to be ordered and will take from 7 to 10 days to arrive.....I have not foudn otehr unuffered ECC on teh market now...

I mean if any part of this seup fails - Especially memory - I will need to replace it...but only within one weeks time....


if i go with the i7 3930k based setup - I shoudl be able to get any kind of the memory in no time at all from teh local PC shops...The XEON+ECC+SERVER mobo looks very reliable but if anythign beraks down I stand the chance of replacing the broken part much faster with the 3930k based setup....considering the power of 3930k I mitgh be able to crunch all data in a matter of 5 o6 hours so no need for 24/7 operation for now....

I will be doign maintenance myself at first - do you think a server-based setup mitghbe harder to maintain than a desctop based setup?

thanks!)

It sounds like (1) you really can't afford downtime or interrupted service/access/uptime, and (2) you personlly won't be available on location to tend to the hardware needs should a problem crop up.

(1) and (2) really don't mix well, it is a disaster in the making.

If you really need the reliability and near-perfect uptime but you also cannot be more available than whatever remote login connection you can arrange then you should really be thinking about the solution to your needs from an entirely different angle.

It really sounds like you need to be thinking of a solution in terms of co-location, cloud servers, or a VPS.

That way you are not responsible for maintaining the hardware, nor are you responsible for ensuring its uptime. That is all built into your monthly contract.

Since you are already planning to manage the compute aspects remotely, it doesn't really matter where the VPS itself is physically located so pick a provider that has the kind of reputation that you are willing to pay for.

You have so much going on, so much to deal with, on the business side of the equation (the forex analysis, etc) that dealing with the hardware side is just going to become a huge time-suck for you and quite possibly (as you are rightfully envisioning) could come to be the Achilles heel of your whole operation.

I used a VPS for a while. The only reason I opted away from that solution was because I work out of my home, all my hardware is on-site, and I keep a full set of redundant hardware onsite. I run UPS as well as have dual-ISP (one cable, the other DSL) for internet access redundancy. But that is something you can only manage when you are literally living 24/7 onsite with your hardware as I do.

If I couldn't live in the same building as my hardware then I'd only settle for co-location or VPS services as a substitute. Managing my own hardware from a distance is just not conducive to a high-uptime critical environment.
 

dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
It sounds like (1) you really can't afford downtime or interrupted service/access/uptime, and (2) you personlly won't be available on location to tend to the hardware needs should a problem crop up.

(1) and (2) really don't mix well, it is a disaster in the making.

If you really need the reliability and near-perfect uptime but you also cannot be more available than whatever remote login connection you can arrange then you should really be thinking about the solution to your needs from an entirely different angle.

It really sounds like you need to be thinking of a solution in terms of co-location, cloud servers, or a VPS.

That way you are not responsible for maintaining the hardware, nor are you responsible for ensuring its uptime. That is all built into your monthly contract.

Since you are already planning to manage the compute aspects remotely, it doesn't really matter where the VPS itself is physically located so pick a provider that has the kind of reputation that you are willing to pay for.

You have so much going on, so much to deal with, on the business side of the equation (the forex analysis, etc) that dealing with the hardware side is just going to become a huge time-suck for you and quite possibly (as you are rightfully envisioning) could come to be the Achilles heel of your whole operation.

I used a VPS for a while. The only reason I opted away from that solution was because I work out of my home, all my hardware is on-site, and I keep a full set of redundant hardware onsite. I run UPS as well as have dual-ISP (one cable, the other DSL) for internet access redundancy. But that is something you can only manage when you are literally living 24/7 onsite with your hardware as I do.

If I couldn't live in the same building as my hardware then I'd only settle for co-location or VPS services as a substitute. Managing my own hardware from a distance is just not conducive to a high-uptime critical environment.


thank you very much for your reply...interesting I found a hardware diagnostic shop near my place this evening))) could be a fast way to correct any hardware errors if they occur...

I am no more concerned about how excel 2010 can utilize the multi-threaded calculation....I could go with i7 3930k set-up - do you think it can utilize all of its cores? Maybe someone with i7 3930k can run a EXCEL 2010 on it?
 

imported_PowerHouse

Junior Member
Oct 13, 2004
15
0
0
Excel 2010 can use all 32-threads of my dual Xeon box. So, you don't need to worry about Excel not being able to handle it. However, just remember that if X number of cells are calculated based on a previously calculated value of a single cell you have effectively removed your multi-threaded performance increase as all calculations must now wait for that value. If you make sure you reduce the number of times this happens then you will see an almost linear increase in performance as you add cores.
 
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dima777

Member
Nov 24, 2012
49
0
0
Excel 2010 can use all 32-threads of my dual Xeon box. So, you don't need to worry about Excel not being able to handle it. However, just remember that if X number of cells are calculated based on a previously calculated value of a single cell you have effectively removed your multi-threaded performance increase as all calculations must now wait for that value. If you make sure you reduce the number of times this happens then you will see an almost linear increase in performance as you add cores.


that os very reassuring to hear....I wonder if I have separate parts of the workbook - each of which starts with the column of prices and calculates different parts of the model which are then aggregated by some other processes....does this mean that this all will be calculated by a single thread? Do you need absolutely independed streams of formulas to utilize separate cpus?
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
59
91
that os very reassuring to hear....I wonder if I have separate parts of the workbook - each of which starts with the column of prices and calculates different parts of the model which are then aggregated by some other processes....does this mean that this all will be calculated by a single thread? Do you need absolutely independed streams of formulas to utilize separate cpus?

While I have no doubt you will find an Excel 2010 multi-threading expert or two here in these forums, I do want to point out that your chances for getting knowledgable answers to your specific Excel 2010 questions will be enhanced if you go to the MS Excel help forum and ask for pointers and feedback in their venue. They will probably be able to help you beyond just the basics, getting into the specifics, in a way that you need for clear-cut answers.
 
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