Intel CPU Markings (ie. Malay vs. Costa Rica)

[pm]

I posted it this in the mammoth Northwood thread, and Wingz posted it in GH. I thought I'd post it once more just for the extra exposure.


Just to clear something up, the markings on the back of the CPU refer to the packaging site - not the manufacturing site of the actual silicon chip itself. Intel has no fabs in either Malaysia or Costa Rica, they are packaging facilities. The silicon die/chips are manufactured elsewhere in the world and are shipped to either of these two packaging sites. In addition, Intel manufacturing has a goal of running a "virtual fab" - meaning that, among other things, products from one fab are statistically indistinguishable from those manufactured at another fab. So even if, for example using fake names, Malaysian packages used chips only from fab #1 and packages marked Costa Rica use chips from fab #2, there should be no difference statistically between these two.

I saw these discussions back in the Celeron days, and I commented back then, but this time around it seems a little different. I have started seeing some online retailers charging more for parts from a specific packaging site and this disturbs me. There is no difference between parts from these two packaging sites. Just as you can have 6 head/tails coin tosses come out heads, there may seem to be a correlation that heads is more likely than tails, but there isn't. In reality the odds are still approximately 50/50.

The silicon is what defines the speed of a CPU, not the package. And the silicon comes from multiple fabs scattered all over the place that are all supposed to be identical anyway.

If you are considering spending more, or buying from a shadier vendor, in order to get a specific package, I would urge you to reconsider. There is no difference and you are only wasting money, and or risking getting ripped off.

Patrick Mahoney
Microprocessor Design Engineer
Intel Corp.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Thanx PM A bump for Consumer awareness courtesy of some rightous cats from Intel!

 

[CTho9305]

bump

 

[manko]

Thanks! Great info, pm. Can I hit you up for a little more info? (Unofficial of course...)

Is the great overclockability of these things any surprise to you folks? Is there any truth to what I heard about some of the 1.6A's possibly having passed the tests for a higher speed rating, but being marked down to fill market demand for lower end/priced chips?

Finally, are we all going to burn out our chips in a few months, by running them at 2.4Ghz?

I'd love to hear any hints you can give us about these questions. I hope you can help to further dispell the rumors and speculation that has been floating around hardware forums like this one...

 

[AGodspeed]

Great info pm. I'm glad you and Wingz have decided to spread the word.

 

[WarCon]

This is in no way disagreeing with pm, just wondering if it is possible that a deficiency at one plant could cause the heat spreaders to be not as well applied as the other plant or the interconnects. Would this have any effect on overclocking?

 

[Regalk]

This is good info to know. I bought 2 Woodies a few weeks ago from a local vendor (the cheapest available) and just noticed that they were packaged in Malay not that this really mattered, would have taken it anyway - they both hit 2.24 fairly easily. My old Celery 300A was packaged in Costa Rica and ran at 464 from day 1.

"Finally, are we all going to burn out our chips in a few months, by running them at 2.4Ghz?"

This is the info we are anxious about since this is unlike the 300A celeron.

 

[Hanpan]

I am glad people are finally comming out with the straight goods.

Thanks for clearing this up PM.

BTW great to have you around again...

 

[heedory]

http://www.intel.com/jobs/costarica/sites/

"Costa Rica is home to a number of Intel's major manufacturing and technology development functions.
Intel Costa Rica began manufacturing operations in early 1998.
The site manufactures microprocessors such as Intel¢ç Pentium¢ç III and Pentium¢ç 4 processor."

from Intel home page..

'manufacturing' means just packaging?
not producing a chip?

 

[Poof]

Perhaps "packaging" means placing the core (made elsewhere) in the layers of ceramic substrate?

 

[Wingznut]

"Manufacturing" would encompass the entire process. So yes, Costa Rica and Malaysia are part of manufacturing. But no, they do not fabricate the silicon. They package the completed silicon die onto the PCB (socket).

This is called "assembly and test", and Costa Rica has two such plants.

Intel Manufacturing FAQ

Some other interesting links to explain a bit more of what pm talked about above:
"Copy Exactly"/Virtual Fab
Evolution of Packaging
How a microprocessor is made
Intel manufacturing site map

Photos/video:
Interior Fab photos
Manufacturing videos

 

[pillage2001]

AFAIK, there's no way that M'sia has the facilities to manufacture the die. I believe that when it says it's made in M'sia, it tend s to me an that the core is packaged(Packed onto the ceramic plate) there and not MADE there.

 

[tenest]

if it makes you, as a consumer, feel more at ease in buying a chip packed at one plant versuses another, and the seller can convince you to pay more for that feeling of security, then i see no problem with the seller charging more. it's when the seller tells you (or eludes to ) that the chip will PERFORM better, but without any factual data to back up that statement, AND charges you more for it, then i agree with pm: stay clear of that seller.

now, while statistically, in general terms, the probability of getting heads in a toin coss is 50/50, there ARE factors that weigh in that can cause a deviation from 50/50 in the ACTUAL statistical numbers. the coin is manufactured. and while i'm sure all attempts are made to make sure that the coin is identical to the next, the fact remains that it has been manufactured by humans, and humans are imperfect. now, the difference between 2 coins might only be 0.000001%, but thats still an amount that CAN have an influence on the outcome of a coin toss.

firestone tires are supposed to be "identical" from one plant to the next, but we all saw what happened with those tires that came from certain plants.

back to the chips, i dont think where they are packed will give any kind of statistically significant information on how well the chip will perform. if anything, i'd say that the batch number would be a better indication of how well a chip will perform. in other words, if you have a friend that has a chip with batch number LB4506 and his overclocked to 2.4, and you can get your hands on a chip from the same batch, then there is a better possibility that your chip will perform similarly. however, i have NO idea how the chips are produced, nor do i really no what the batch number truly signifies. maybe someone with more info on the whole manufacturing process can enlighten us.

your best bet is to buy from a reputable dealer, one that has high ratings or that you have purchased from before. if the chip doesnt perform as well as you like, and you just cant live with what it IS capable of, egay it and buy another one.

 

[UofI]

So why is it that individuals are having better success with those chips coming from Malay then Costa Rica?

 

[manko]

UofI, you have to imagine the thousands of OEM machines with Northwoods and all the people who buy these chips and don't overclock them. (Maybe all those stock-clocked CRs are super overlockers, but we'll never know.) They are not figuring into our miniscule statistical sample here. The other thing to consider is the variation in other compenets PS, RAM, motherboard, Bios, AGP and PCI cards, etc. None of the overlcock "databases" have really corrected for those factors.

(Of course, I don't have to worry, because I have a Malay chip )

 

[Vicky]

Hi fellow Costa Ricans, Yesterday I got a CR chip 1.6A - Running stable @2544.
Happy OC,
Vicky

 

[cyberizer9]

<< Hi fellow Costa Ricans, Yesterday I got a CR chip 1.6A - Running stable @2544.
Happy OC,
Vicky >>



let me add to that, I am running a CR 1.6A chip stable at 2.24 with standard HSF. I am sure it can do a lot more but don't want to do it w/o extra cooling in place.

 

[Dink]

Got 2 CR 1.6a @ 2.24 and they won't budge a single bit over that, not even with water cooling. No amount of voltage applied helps. Using a 400watt antec PSU as well. Gigabyte GA-8SRX mobo. People have reported good OCing results with this mobo. Not saying 2.24 is bad, I just expected more from water cooling. Dunno, maybe just got some weak chips.

 

[KenAF]

Dink,

There are lots of people over on Hardforum.com that have upgraded from the Gigabyte to a P4B266, and were able to obtain an extra 100-150MHz on the same processor. Search on "Gigabyte P4B266" for a few of the posts.

 

[Aragorn]

Intel also has an assembly site in Chandler AZ. It is used mostly for development. I have never heard of any processors from there being sold anywhere.



<< This is in no way disagreeing with pm, just wondering if it is possible that a deficiency at one plant could cause the heat spreaders to be not as well applied as the other plant or the interconnects. Would this have any effect on overclocking? >>



Intel uses a process that is called "Copy Exactly" making each of its factories nearly identical in fabrication. So I doubt very much if there is any differences at all between different sites. Each site uses the same tools to the same specifications.

 

[Dink]

<< Dink,

There are lots of people over on Hardforum.com that have upgraded from the Gigabyte to a P4B266, and were able to obtain an extra 100-150MHz on the same processor. Search on "Gigabyte P4B266" for a few of the posts. >>



Thanks for the info. I'll check it out...I dunno if a whole new MOBO is worth just 100Mhz, but it would be good to know.

 

[ElFenix]

thanks pm!


100 MHz on top of 2.2 is nothing. especially in the sort of bandwidth limited DDR p4 setup most overclockers are going with right now.

 

[Duvie]

actually chandler is a manufacturing site...it is a full fledge fab...I believe fab15 and another one coming on line...

All of intels development fabs in the us I believe are in Oregon at the Ronler Acres site...DIB was converted to a full fledge fab last year, and I think is the site for most of the northwoods. The two other fabs there are D1c and D1d under construction..."D" in the name stands for developmental.

I reiterate AZ fabs are manufacturing facilities. The technologies learned at the developmental fabs are incorporated in the designs of the manufacturing fabs...

More manufacturing fabs in Rio rancho, NM...

 

[Aragorn]

<< actually chandler is a manufacturing site...it is a full fledge fab...I believe fab15 and another one coming on line...

All of intels development fabs in the us I believe are in Oregon at the Ronler Acres site...DIB was converted to a full fledge fab last year, and I think is the site for most of the northwoods. The two other fabs there are D1c and D1d under construction..."D" in the name stands for developmental.

I reiterate AZ fabs are manufacturing facilities. The technologies learned at the developmental fabs are incorporated in the designs of the manufacturing fabs...

More manufacturing fabs in Rio rancho, NM... >>



There is more than 1 site in Arizona. The Chandler site is Assembly test and Development (also known as ATD), the Occotillo site is where the manufacturing fabs are at in Arizona. There is one more Site (CH10) I don't know what they do there any more. You are right the Developmental fabs are at Ronler Acres. D1B was converted (now called Fab20 because it is not a developmental fab anymore) Construction is finished on D1C and has tools in it and is running wafers.

There are more fabs than just Rio Rancho. There are plants in Santa Clara CA, Isreal, Ireland and one of the newest ones in Boston.

Fab20 also makes Northwoods and Tualitin.

Wingz isn't the only one here that works at Intel.

 

[Duvie]

I work for hoffman construction and for the most part we have built....

D1b, and D1d and ronler acres, OR...Most of the jones farm facility...D1a in aloha now converted to fab...

The Rio Rancho site, Nm Fab18 and I don't know the new #

the chandler, AZ sites...now I assumed they were fabs since all the paperwork I have on them including the plans call them fabs (ie Fab12 or 15, one of them)...wouldn't that mean fabrication not developmental???

We also built the one in Israel....

I knew there was stuff in santa clara, but thought it was mainly corporate stuff...No nothing about occotillo or Boston....