Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[NostaSeronx]

Apple is 100% sticking with Intel with the launch of the semi-custom Apple Tigerlake on 10nm++.

 

[naukkis]

In the first paragraph I said that Apple will switch to their own, designed by them APUs. Semi-Custom can also be considered this way, that Apple designed those CPUs. The wafers will be ordered by Apple from TSMC.

That's fine for ARM, but x86 chips can be manufactured only by those companies which has licence to do so. So Apple can't design their own x86 cpu.

 

[scannall]

That's fine for ARM, but x86 chips can be manufactured only by those companies which has licence to do so. So Apple can't design their own x86 cpu.

They could design it, and have AMD manufacture it. But that is extremely unlikely.

 

[jpiniero]

Apple using AMD would be because they want an updated chip and Intel cant deliver. Has nothing to do with the transition to their own CPUs.

 

[Ajay]

They could design it, and have AMD manufacture it. But that is extremely unlikely.

It’s an interesting idea - Apple using AMD's custom semiconductor model for it’s own AMD uarch SoC. I don’t know if Apple has the $ volume for CPUs as, say, XBox.

 

[JasonLD]

Apple using AMD would be because they want an updated chip and Intel cant deliver. Has nothing to do with the transition to their own CPUs.

Well, since Renoir may well only go up to 8 cores at most so i don't see really see much reason to switch over since current Macbook Pro line already goes up to 8 cores. On 4-cores or below category, Renoir doesn't look than enticing compared to upcoming Tiger Lake.

 

[jpiniero]

On 4-cores or below category, Renoir doesn't look than enticing compared to upcoming Tiger Lake.

Except of course AMD should be able to supply product. That's kind of the problem and why they would go with AMD.

 

[Glo.]

Except of course AMD should be able to supply product. That's kind of the problem and why they would go with AMD.

The reason why Apple would go with AMD is pretty obvious.

Semi-Custom products. Not being able to see a possiblity of Apple wanting to simplify the design of their MBP's board if... short sighted to put it lightly.

Van Gogh can be 8C/16T APU with RDNA2 GPU(and it actually is), that has HBM2 on the package, making it real system on chip design. Why would Apple want something like this?

Metal integration, HBM2s bandwidth available for the CPU, as some sort of L4 cache, and lower power draw of memory subsystem compared to GDDR6. Also managing the load between CPU and GPU would be easier than on two separate units, instead of one Chip.

Apple will want custom products for their computers. Always. You should know this guys perfectly well.

 

[JasonLD]

Except of course AMD should be able to supply product. That's kind of the problem and why they would go with AMD.

Yeah, that might be the potential problem but I would think Apple will be first on line to get the batch of Tiger Lake if it has supply problem of some sort. I would assume "supply constrained" Intel can still supply more than AMD could.

 

[krumme]

Yeah, that might be the potential problem but I would think Apple will be first on line to get the batch of Tiger Lake if it has supply problem of some sort. I would assume "supply constrained" Intel can still supply more than AMD could.

Would you prioritize Apple vs eg Dell and Lenovo if you were Intel?
I am not sure thats the best strategy today. Same goes for amd btw.
As for AMD limit supplying thats kind of old days. GF capacity is surely very limited but tsmc is gigantic on those newer nodes so its more or less just a question of cost and margins not capacity. Can a apple apu compete for margins vs eg a discrete gpu? The answer is not simple, but amd is not capacity constrained like Intel is. Its a question if they can get the expected needed margins vs other products competing for the wafers.

 

[JasonLD]

Would you prioritize Apple vs eg Dell and Lenovo if you were Intel?

Dell and Lenovo definitely has more volumes overall, but I think Apple probably sells more of premium priced laptops than any other PC manufacturer in the world, so it wouldn't be so crazy to think about Apple getting first patch of Tiger Lakes.
Apple exclusively uses Intel on their Macs, while not Dell and Lenovo, so I assume Intel probably wants to prevent Apple from pursuing AMD option for their CPUs not just for their financial reasons, but also for symbolic reasons.

 

[Glo.]

Forget about future Intel based Macs. Its a done deal that was in the making for past 5 years.

There is a good reason why Apple is testing Van Gogh, Semi-Custom APU, that they have ordered the design from AMD.

 

[krumme]

Forget about future Intel based Macs. Its a done deal that was in the making for past 5 years.

There is a good reason why Apple is testing Van Gogh, Semi-Custom APU, that they have ordered the design from AMD.

Everyone of the big guys want to be a monopoly, and work like crazy to ensure their compettitors and suppliers is not. Thats the morale.
I dont think it matters much what is inside macs these days, and i wouldnt go one step towards pleasing apple if it isnt outrigt solid profit day one. Makes no sense strategically.

 

[Glo.]

Everyone of the big guys want to be a monopoly, and work like crazy to ensure their compettitors and suppliers is not. Thats the morale.
I dont think it matters much what is inside macs these days, and i wouldnt go one step towards pleasing apple if it isnt outrigt solid profit day one. Makes no sense strategically.

Rumor: Apple Plans to Launch a new High-End Mac in 2020 designed to address the Esports Market

Professional, competitive video game playing—the phenomenon known as esports—has seen double digit growth for much of the past decade. With a massive following, many say it will soon become an official Olympic event. A new rumor today claims that Apple is going to launch a new high-end Mac for...

www.patentlyapple.com

Are you sure it isn't or might not have sense from stategical point of view?

 

[mikk]

I would assume "supply constrained" Intel can still supply more than AMD could.

I would also assume that Intels volume for Tigerlake will be much higher than Icelake and I really doubt AMDs volume is able to compete with the volume of Tigerlake. AMDs volume never was that great either for mobile in the first months after the launch. Tigerlake looks really appealing if the last leak is legit.

 

[jpiniero]

I would also assume that Intels volume for Tigerlake will be much higher than Icelake and I really doubt AMDs volume is able to compete with the volume of Tigerlake.

If Apple does go with AMD, then obviously Apple disagrees. Tiger Lake will likely be in higher volumes than Icelake but we are talking relatively speaking. OEMs are still going to be selling Whiskey in 2020 for the most part, and then Comet and later Rocket when (if?) the 14 nm shortage eases.

Are you sure it isn't or might not have sense from stategical point of view?

That would be weird, trying to sell a $5K eSports targeted machine. I don't think that would go over well.

 

[mikk]

If Apple does go with AMD, then obviously Apple disagrees. Tiger Lake will likely be in higher volumes than Icelake but we are talking relatively speaking. OEMs are still going to be selling Whiskey in 2020 for the most part, and then Comet and later Rocket when (if?) the 14 nm shortage eases.

Because there are like 5000 different Intel powered devices in the market and AMD with Raven Ridge and Picasso barely have 500 different.

 

[jpiniero]

Come to think of it, Apple fits nicely with the 28 W "only" rumor. Either way they end up going. If Apple does go with Renoir I could see Intel rushing out very small quantities of a single 28 W Tiger Lake model, perhaps with the specs of that ES, as Wall Street Damage Control over Apple's defection. Might even be branded 10th gen.

15 W would be later.

Because there are like 5000 different Intel powered devices in the market and AMD with Raven Ridge and Picasso barely have 500 different.

The shortage might be changing that.

 

[mikk]

The shortage might be changing that.

The shortage is going on for a long time now and it didn't change.

 

[jpiniero]

The shortage is going on for a long time now and it didn't change.

The shortage is getting worse now... plus it looks like Intel is prioritizing the smaller Whiskey instead of Comet and OEMs are mad.

 

[Dave2150]

Intel losing Apple will be a huge blow. Hope AMD get the contract over ARM, fingers crossed!

Dell will be the next nut to crack, if AMD can take 50% market share @ Dell over a few years would be great for everyone involved, excluding Intel shareholders.

 

[liahos1]

this thread is getting derailed by baseless speculation. Where are the mods?

 

[jpiniero]

this thread is getting derailed by baseless speculation. Where are the mods?

Apple using AMD isn't baseless at all, and it's relevant because Apple wouldn't do it unless Intel couldn't deliver.

 

[liahos1]

Any decent proof of this or again just ppl throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. Intel wouldn't be buying back $20bln of stock and the new director wouldn't do a $10mln dollar personal purchase under these circumstances.

You guys just make something up then chatter about it endlessly as if its already truth. When proven wrong you all are on the next rumor. track records in here are terrible.

And again if you want to chatter about this - it should be a different thread. This thread (i thought) was about the future intel products, not intel's demise based on unverified rumors.

What are mods doing?

If you have issues with moderation (or questions) please make a thread in Moderation Discussions and not post them in the regular forums.

Iron Woode
Super Moderator

 

[ajc9988]

Any decent proof of this or again just ppl throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks. Intel wouldn't be buying back $20bln of stock and the new director wouldn't do a $10mln dollar personal purchase under these circumstances.

You guys just make something up then chatter about it endlessly as if its already truth. When proven wrong you all are on the next rumor. track records in here are terrible.

And again if you want to chatter about this - it should be a different thread. This thread (i thought) was about the future intel products, not intel's demise based on unverified rumors.

What are mods doing?

What are you talking about? They sold the antenna division to Apple. That is a large sale of intellectual property. That money must be either distributed, used for stock buy backs, or spent within the company in some fashion. And it is also not unusual for a director or executive to purchase a decently large amount of stock to try to raise confidence of the market. What was more telling is without a 10b5-1 plan setup without inside information on security vulnerabilities, BK sold his stock to cash in on coffee lake and skylake-x, which seems to be a violation of insider trading laws.

So what is your basis for your comment? Intel set the record date for the distribution for Q4. The director bought $10M to cash in on the distribution of the sale to Apple.

Intel also said they will no longer focus on 90% of the CPU market, instead looking at 30% of all silicon, as they sold off a part of them. Curious.