I doubt its AVX512 that's making it that much faster compared to Icelake. It's the ability to hold clocks better in multi-threaded workloads.
It is truly astonishing what AVX512 can bring on a modern efficient design."
thats the same difference really, AVX512 clock was slow.I doubt its AVX512 that's making it that much faster compared to Icelake. It's the ability to hold clocks better in multi-threaded workloads.
thats the same difference really, AVX512 clock was slow.
Along this axis, there is almost no downclocking at all! Only for a single active core count is there any decrease with wider instructions, and it is a paltry only 100 MHz: from 3,700 MHz to 3,600 MHz when any 512-bit instructions are used.
I did use the picture without the orange outline yesterday and got 45mm².
AFAIK the TSMC outsourcing is done to compensate for the 7nm delays, not for 10nm capacity. Having capacity problems that are not yield related would not lead to stock price drops, they'd be drowning in high margin revenue.As for outsourcing production to TSMC: Intel just doesn't have enough production lines to make everything themselves.
It's absolutely a bummer and one of the reasons for worse forecasts and stock drop.
We'll also be seeing the 4900H against TGL, it's already announced in the Lenovo Sim 7 Pro (14" screen, 1.45kg). Throughput will likely be similar to 4800U due to power/thermal limits but ST performance will jump up a bit.I don't see it as coincidence reviewers receiving 4800U laptop samples just a week before Tigerlake launch.
We'll also be seeing the 4900H against TGL, it's already announced in the Lenovo Sim 7 Pro (14" screen, 1.45kg). Throughput will likely be similar to 4800U due to power/thermal limits but ST performance will jump up a bit.
Dude, this is exclusively mobile with up to 4 cores. FOUR CORES. Nobody ever said that Intel was bad in the mobile sector. In fact, they developed super cool energy saving techniques over the years. It's just... just not as good ones as ARM vendors, but we'll have to wait and see with A14X and his buddies.TGL appears to be a great little product. Waiting to see power consumption, but the i7 performs better than a 4700U.
A lot of people are bashing Intel and making claims they can’t deliver. Clearly many of us have short memories. Time and time again Intel has been beaten, and they’ve always come back. Tiger Lake and Intel’s discrete graphics are the first indication that 10nm is beginning to ramp up. While 10nm is (extremely) late, we must keep in mind that until AMD makes the leap to 5nm, they won’t continue to have a process node advantage. With 5nm chips from AMD possibly not landing until 2H2022, Intel and AMD could very well find themselves on even footing from a process technology standpoint going forward, and believe it or not this is a good thing.
I was talking in the context of the slim body of the Lenovo unit. There's still a chance they managed to do an excellent job with the cooling and keep it at 35W in a 14" unit with 1.45kg weight, but I would err on the side of caution and expect under 35W TDP, 25W would be way more doable.It's the opposite. The 4900HS is upwards of 30% faster than the 4800U in MT. About the same in ST. The Zephyrus has been using 4900HS months ago.
Surprised to see this review early, but TGL looks like a beast!
Quoting from the article in case it is taken down:
"While due to high power consumption, AVX512 was never a good fit for mobile and their meager power envelopes (15W, 25W, etc.) – somehow “Tiger Lake” (TGL) manages to run them much faster, 40-50% faster than “Ice Lake” and thus beating the competition.
TGL’s performance with a meager 15W power budget in a think & light laptop is pretty compelling and it soundly beats not only older (bigger) mobile processors with more cores (at 35-45W) but also older desktop processors! It is truly astonishing what AVX512 can bring on a modern efficient design."
I was talking in the context of the slim body of the Lenovo unit. There's still a chance they managed to do an excellent job with the cooling and keep it at 35W in a 14" unit with 1.45kg weight, but I would err on the side of caution and expect under 35W TDP, 25W would be way more doable.
Intel's 7nm will not compete against TSMC 6N but a more dense node in the future (5N?). 6N is an improved 7N. Intel will get there with 10nm and a finite number of "+".AFAIK the TSMC outsourcing is done to compensate for the 7nm delays, not for 10nm capacity. Having capacity problems that are not yield related would not lead to stock price drops, they'd be drowning in high margin revenue.
N6 is a significantly cheaper node than N5 with much more available volume. It makes more sense for Intel to use N6 over N5 as it does provide notable density and perf benefits over N7 variants even still. With Apple ramping up N5 volume, Qualcomm potentially still seemingly around (rumours are mixed here) and surprisingly enough AMD becoming a much more major player by the node, there's not a whole lot of volume to go around for Intel.Intel's 7nm will not compete against TSMC 6N but a more dense node in the future (5N?). 6N is an improved 7N. Intel will get there with 10nm and a finite number of "+".
If Intel has something very specific in mind for their 7nm chip that isn't possible on 10nm, it probably won't be possible on 6N as well.
IMO the biggest gain for them is just adding a "safety margin" (which they currently don't have on their 10/14nm combination). This is exactly the issue that hit them during early stage of transition to 10nm: 14nm volume was limited as well and they couldn't keep up with OEM orders.
Not a very high quality review, I can see a few problems at a glance.
Surprised to see this review early, but TGL looks like a beast!
Quoting from the article in case it is taken down:
"While due to high power consumption, AVX512 was never a good fit for mobile and their meager power envelopes (15W, 25W, etc.) – somehow “Tiger Lake” (TGL) manages to run them much faster, 40-50% faster than “Ice Lake” and thus beating the competition.
TGL’s performance with a meager 15W power budget in a think & light laptop is pretty compelling and it soundly beats not only older (bigger) mobile processors with more cores (at 35-45W) but also older desktop processors! It is truly astonishing what AVX512 can bring on a modern efficient design."
Actually cooling didn't improve that much.Cooling continues to improve. Just couple of years ago, 5W was the level for fanless.
"4c mobile chips" is Intel's most important and profitable consumer lineup.
If they're going to make it exclusively on Tiger Lake, it clearly shows a lot of confidence in both platform and process.
As for outsourcing production to TSMC: Intel just doesn't have enough production lines to make everything themselves.
AFAIK the TSMC outsourcing is done to compensate for the 7nm delays, not for 10nm capacity. Having capacity problems that are not yield related would not lead to stock price drops, they'd be drowning in high margin revenue.
Yes and no.I don't want to go back 20 pages, but wasn't TSMC developing a special 5nm node for AMD or some of their preferred clients? I can see Intel going for that N6 node for savings, and also because they just delayed a major delivery they need to get their stuff sorted and deliver on a new date.
I can't recall when ADL was announced for 2021, but I would be surprised if it comes out sooner than 4Q22.Remember, 10nm was supposed to be responsible for TigerLake, Alder Lake-P and -S, Sapphire Rapids, DG2, and parts of Ponte Vecchio (the parts that were not on Intel 7nm).
I can't recall when ADL was announced for 2021, but I would be surprised if it comes out sooner than 4Q22.
I think it's safe to say they won't be on time given recent historic setbacks spanning the last 12 quarters, and historically behind behind and getting caught with their pants around their ankles. If Tiger Lake is as good as the rumors suggest it'll be (it isn't close) then they can do a refresh. AMD is supposed to launch by year's end. And if that interim processor refresh is anything go by, it'll be a mid to late '21 product, and I don't see AM5 launching until late 2Q22. Given the tech stack for the new platform, they'll use up their suggested cadence cycle. Hopefully to make sure it's a smooth launch. Not to be that guy, but the AMD launch cycle for Ryzen has an interesting pattern at the moment. I posted it a while back but removed it because even I thought I was crazy for posting some weird theory.Alder Lake is supposed to be a 2021 CPU according to some Intel roadmaps. Not saying I agree with it, it's just . . . that's what's supposed to happen. If Intel can't launch Alder Lake next year, then I really have no idea what they're going to do. Tiger Lake Refresh?
If Tiger Lake is as good as the rumors suggest it'll be (it isn't close) then they can do a refresh.
I can't really comment on TGL because I can't seem to find much discussion online that isn't back and forth debate over silly stuff or the mental masturbation over dumb stuff. I'm way more interested in the big/little approach for ADL. Logic tells me it won't be good, but I'm very curious despite that. If that is what Intel will do from now on or for however many years, I'll very likely build a secondary system that uses ADL.The problem there is that, at least at this point, Intel can't get (or won't try to get) Tiger Lake to yield at anything higher than 4c. Which is troubling. It's like the "SuperFETs" are helping them with the power/clockspeed problems but not with yields? Maybe by next year they can have 8c Tiger Lake-H finally ready, but if they can do that, why not Alder Lake?
It's all really confusing.
No they don't. Just wait for Tiger Lake U reviews.Times change. They need 6c and 8c products on 10nm, stat. They can't do it until next year.
Much touted? You mean: much discussed by enthusiasts on forums like this one where most people stay on desktops anyway?No it doesn't. It shows that they can't get an 8c or even a 6c Willow Cove to yield correctly. The iGPU is enormous to compensate. Where's the much-touted TigerLake-H? Still not here.
Intel's most important client for high-end -H chips is Apple.
If Apple really plans to replace Macbook Pro with an ARM system (which Intel surely knows by now), they'll have even less reason to invest in the -H lineup.