Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[jpiniero]

No, they likely killed it off because enthusiasts who wanted Broadwell-C wanted the ability to OC well in addition to the eDRAM. Broadwell couldn't clock worth anything, so that probably killed sales. No point of being few % faster with eDRAM, if you lose 15% in frequency.

Considering how long it took before Skylake K was easily available it's clear they were having yield issues well into 2016. They couldn't really even gave Broadwell-C a chance because they quasi-cancelled it basically right at launch, as I said likely due to yield. I'm sure Skylake-K was more profitable too given how much smaller it is.

A Z390 chipset is coming in fall of this year. A chipset releases because a chip needs it, not the other way around. Something is coming, and based on how they can't even release -U Icelake by the fall timeframe, makes it very unlikely it'll be Icelake. A year later for Icelake-S in summer/fall of 2019 makes more sense considering that's about when rest of the Icelake family will be coming.

The latest roadmap leak showed that there is no z390 or 8 core CFL in 2018. Have to figure that's accurate. Could of course still release in 2019 but I still think it's more likely just clock bumps and they'll release Icelake whenever.

 

[jpiniero]

Hmm, if you were wondering what Intel might spend their transistor budget on with Icelake... sure enough instructions to help with Deep Learning is one of them. This isn't new info btw.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Intel-Icelake-Lands-GCC-8

 

[Bouowmx]

I need a refresher: does Cannon Lake use FIVR?

 

[jpiniero]

I need a refresher: does Cannon Lake use FIVR?

Probably but you'll have to wait and see. Note that the Y had it's TDP changed from 4.5 W to 5.2 W.

 

[IntelUser2000]

I need a refresher: does Cannon Lake use FIVR?

Cannonlake supposedly uses what's called a Multi-chip IVR or McIVR. It's probably what it sounds like and a tiny chip that goes on package rather than on-die like they did with FIVR. It may, also create flexibility by enabling it only on certain segments. Perhaps they can use regular VRs for desktops and laptops can use McIVR. There's a significant power management advantage to an integrated voltage regulator. The Skylake laptops were a sidegrade(even worse in some cases) in battery life compared to Broadwell likely because Broadwell had FIVR and Skylake didn't.

There were some rumors the engineers found some fringe-case problem with FIVR. Adding that and maybe things like thermal/reliability issues prompted them to change type of integration on the voltage regulators.

Skylake-X(Core i9 chips) use some form of an IVR.

The latest roadmap leak showed that there is no z390 or 8 core CFL in 2018.

As far as I am concerned, they can put whatever on the roadmaps, and can change schedules on a whim. If they feel it has to be hidden due to competitive reasons, or its not necessary to make the release concrete until close to launch, they are free to do so. Now, Z390 is more concrete than 8 core CFL, but I would think there's more chance on an 8 core Coffeelake coming with Z390 than not.

 

[TempAcc99]

Now, Z390 is more concrete than 8 core CFL, but I would think there's more chance on an 8 core Coffeelake coming with Z390 than not.

Yeah z390 seems pointless without a at least a higher clocked 6-core. But even then...

 

[xblax]

Yeah z390 seems pointless without a at least a higher clocked 6-core. But even then...

I think it's pointless even with an 8-core because there is no reason why Z370 boards should not work.

I would rather guess that Z390 is just an updated chipset with integrated thunderbolt or wifi support.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Z390 is the highest end of the 300-series chipset. Of course the regular 300-series chipsets are going to launch in about a week or so.

Z370 is really 200-series chipset but with Coffeelake support. This is likely due to competitive response. It looks like Coffelake might have been out in February to align with 300-series chipset launch, but Intel decided to modify 200-series chipset to launch Coffeelake on August of last year.

 

[TempAcc99]

Z370 is really 200-series chipset but with Coffeelake support. This is likely due to competitive response. It looks like Coffelake might have been out in February to align with 300-series chipset launch, but Intel decided to modify 200-series chipset to launch Coffeelake on August of last year.

And given the Meltdown issue, makes sense they launched early to get at least some chips out...If they launch Coffelake-k just now, only shortly before Pinnacle ridge and just after the meltdown release well I bet sales would have suffered.

 

[StinkyPinky]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12392/intel-adds-new-cfl-cpus-to-database

There is no mention of an 8 core in their updated database. Just a new slower 6 core i7 and a new faster 6 core i5-k chip (among others)

 

[IntelUser2000]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12392/intel-adds-new-cfl-cpus-to-database

If they launch Coffelake-k just now, only shortly before Pinnacle ridge and just after the meltdown release well I bet sales would have suffered.

Yea, that's the real Coffeelake release. 8700K should have been February too. Now the K SKUs aren't synced with the whole of the LGA115x launch.

Coffeelake-K was really in response to Ryzen.

 

[jpiniero]

As far as I am concerned, they can put whatever on the roadmaps, and can change schedules on a whim. If they feel it has to be hidden due to competitive reasons, or its not necessary to make the release concrete until close to launch, they are free to do so. Now, Z390 is more concrete than 8 core CFL, but I would think there's more chance on an 8 core Coffeelake coming with Z390 than not.

Oh I think the 8C CFL is real; whether or not it gets released is another story. But you can be confident that it won't be until next year if it does. The question to me is whether the 2019 desktop is going to be Coffee Lake Refresh or Icelake.

 

[PeterScott]

Oh I think the 8C CFL is real; whether or not it gets released is another story. But you can be confident that it won't be until next year if it does. The question to me is whether the 2019 desktop is going to be Coffee Lake Refresh or Icelake.

If it doesn't get released it's not real. Intel doesn't millions on CPU development only to keep them in house for staff amusement.

 

[FIVR]

If it doesn't get released it's not real. Intel doesn't millions on CPU development only to keep them in house for staff amusement.

Uh, intel spends millions on development on products it never releases all the time. A few million is peanuts to them.

 

[PeterScott]

Uh, intel spends millions on development on products it never releases all the time. A few million is peanuts to them.

Evidence?

The might work on something and change direction, ending the work on it before it is finished, but taking a product to an actual finished state, and then not releasing it would be exceedingly rare. WTF would they do that?

Unless they finish it, it isn't real.

 

[jpiniero]

If it doesn't get released it's not real. Intel doesn't millions on CPU development only to keep them in house for staff amusement.

Right, but Spectre/Meltdown may have caused them to change plans.

 

[ehume]

Right, but Spectre/Meltdown may have caused them to change plans.

Sounds reasonable, but IIRC Intel knew about the problems in July. They changed their plans in July-August?

 

[PeterScott]

Right, but Spectre/Meltdown may have caused them to change plans.

A bunch of new Coffee Lake parts have been recently added to the mix. They aren't going to kill products just because of Spectre/Meltdown.

 

[mikk]

Oh I think the 8C CFL is real; whether or not it gets released is another story. But you can be confident that it won't be until next year if it does.

You told the same about CFL 6C.

 

[jpiniero]

You told the same about CFL 6C.

The original release was going to be next week before they decided to paper launch it. I just don't know if they have it in them to do it again. Ryzen 2 isn't going to be released until Q1 next year so there isn't that urgency.

The way I see it, they have three options:

- Just clock bump the current Coffee Lake K models at some point (with or without Z390) and release Icelake desktop in the middle of next year.
- Release Coffee Lake Refresh roughly this time next year with 8 cores at i7 and then release Icelake/Tigerlake desktop at the end of the year.
- Do nothing and release Icelake desktop whenever.

 

[LTC8K6]

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/cores/coffee_lake_r

Wikichip, for what it's worth, still has a whole line of CFL-R desktop chips listed, including an 8 core 9700K.

 

[french toast]

Oh I think the 8C CFL is real; whether or not it gets released is another story. But you can be confident that it won't be until next year if it does. The question to me is whether the 2019 desktop is going to be Coffee Lake Refresh or Icelake.

Next year? That's suicide.
That will be competing against 7nm zen 2..ie .death.

If it doesn't get released it's not real. Intel doesn't millions on CPU development only to keep them in house for staff amusement.

Exactly..if it does not come by H2 2018 it's not real, or not worth being real.

https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/intel/cores/coffee_lake_r

Wikichip, for what it's worth, still has a whole line of CFL-R desktop chips listed, including an 8 core 9700K.

Interesting..

 

[jpiniero]

Next year? That's suicide.
That will be competing against 7nm zen 2..ie .death.

Zen 2 is a problem but still remains to be seen how big of one. Either way there's not much Intel can do about it now.

 

[french toast]

Zen 2 is a problem but still remains to be seen how big of one. Either way there's not much Intel can do about it now.

At this stage are we resigned to icelake not appearing until H2 2019?
Zen 2 Vs icelake...two brand new competing uarch baked on 2 brand new competing processes, what a battle royale

This is like the early noughties all over again.

 

[jpiniero]

At this stage are we resigned to icelake not appearing until H2 2019?

Yep, pretty much.