Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

Page 695 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Exist50

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2016
2,452
3,101
136
Golden Cove Server is a wee bit bigger than Gracemont. Just a tad.
What are you talking about? We have some SKU lists for SPR, and 56c models are certainly there. Do you somehow think yields are worse a year after SPR and 2+ after ADL?
 

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,331
5,282
136
What are you talking about? We have some SKU lists for SPR, and 56c models are certainly there. Do you somehow think yields are worse a year after SPR and 2+ after ADL?
I belive that he thinks that you are talking about Alder Lake 13/15 Core CPUs

But You are righ. Intel should have no issue with Yields for 16 Core compute Tile
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
Interestingly this review shows Alderlake-U 9W having great battery life. Greater than 14.5 hours using 51WHr battery is fantastic.

While the reviewer criticizes it having low performance, the MT performance rivals 15W Tigerlake despite only having 10W sustained. Also unlike Amberlake and previous low TDP attempts, this chip does not suffer from noticeably lower single thread results. Single thread performance is only 10% behind top Tigerlake which is an excellent result. This is twice the MT performance of Y chips, and those chips had MT performance at a standstill since the Broadwell Core M.

The reviewer conclusion is as always with the modern press, mediocre at the best. I don't remember them complaining when Tigerlake had 2/3rd MT performance of Renoir. Why the change in attitude now?


This is Amberlake class efficiency and what I hoped to see with Lakefield. This device achieves better battery life per WHr than Lakefield! I wouldn't have minded getting this device at all. This is a great progress and I would even call it Hybrid Unleashed.

I wonder if the problems aren't fundamental but higher level such as system and firmware settings? Otherwise this difference should not be possible. While this laptop benefits having 15W PL2, it shouldn't matter this much. Perhaps the discrepancy lies in the greater than normal binning differences between the 9/15/-P chips?
 
Last edited:

Exist50

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2016
2,452
3,101
136
Interestingly this review shows Alderlake-U 9W having great battery life. Greater than 14.5 hours using 51WHr battery is fantastic.

While the reviewer criticizes it having low performance, the MT performance rivals 15W Tigerlake despite only having 10W sustained. Also unlike Amberlake and previous low TDP attempts, this chip does not suffer from noticeably lower single thread results. Single thread performance is only 10% behind top Tigerlake which is an excellent result. This is twice the MT performance of Y chips, and those chips had MT performance at a standstill since the Broadwell Core M.

The reviewer conclusion is as always with the modern press, mediocre at the best. I don't remember them complaining when Tigerlake had 2/3rd MT performance of Renoir. Why the change in attitude now?


This is Amberlake class efficiency and what I hoped to see with Lakefield. This device achieves better battery life per WHr than Lakefield! I wouldn't have minded getting this device at all. This is a great progress and I would even call it Hybrid Unleashed.

I wonder if the problems aren't fundamental but higher level such as system and firmware settings? Otherwise this difference should not be possible. While this laptop benefits having 15W PL2, it shouldn't matter this much. Perhaps the discrepancy lies in the greater than normal binning differences between the 9/15/-P chips?
Iirc, the smaller ADL mobile die contained some extra power optimizations, but not sure what.
 

moinmoin

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2017
4,994
7,765
136
While this laptop benefits having 15W PL2, it shouldn't matter this much.
E-cores definitely profit of not being fed too much voltage. P-cores not being able to run too much into inefficiency territory is also good. Though the i5-1230U can have a PL2 of up to 29W so it being limited to 15W on that laptop is somewhat unfortunate, especially since the max frequency of 4.4GHz for P-cores and 3.3GHz for E-cores are actually pretty sane.
 

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
E-cores definitely profit of not being fed too much voltage. P-cores not being able to run too much into inefficiency territory is also good. Though the i5-1230U can have a PL2 of up to 29W so it being limited to 15W on that laptop is somewhat unfortunate, especially since the max frequency of 4.4GHz for P-cores and 3.3GHz for E-cores are actually pretty sane.

That's the thing. While TDP does play a role in battery life, it's quite small. If your idle uses 0.2W and your peak is 28W but only for 5% of the time, the CPU average power is only 1.6W. Whereas if you drop the TDP to 15W the average power is 0.95W. That is still a big difference but don't forget to add platform and display power which is an extra 1.5-2W or so. That's 3W vs 3.6W which is only 20% difference.

In reality the differences can be even smaller as there are multiple steps in between those two points and the lowest power C state isn't readily reached. Then the practical minimum might be 1W rather than 0.2W. Now you are talking 3.8W vs 4.4W plus the longer execution time of the slower CPU meaning actual differences are only about 10% for a 2x TDP difference.

@Exist50 My point was that the replacements to Tigerlake U is a significant regression for 15-28W range while the former M and Y replacements are direct upgrades and do not regress. Yea I can believe Alderlake 9W having extra optimizations. But previous Y chips did too. You'd expect no change. So why did it change for 15-28? Amberlake and previous M parts are excellent for battery life - it's that their performance sucked. Amberlake derivatives get 200-250 in Cinebench R15 which is an atrocious figure. Also the single thread performance was 30-50% behind U chips.

ST - 30-50% loss to 10-20% loss compared to U counterparts
MT - 2-2.5x the performance over Amberlake. Amberlake was only 25% faster than original Broadwell Core M that came out 5 years prior! Almost no progress. Alderlake in a single year quadruples the advances previous generations made.
Battery life - same efficiency as Amberlake. Tigerlake-Y was a significant regression as well.
 
Last edited:
Jul 27, 2020
17,911
11,683
116
Yea I can believe Alderlake 9W having extra optimizations. But previous Y chips did too. You'd expect no change. So why did it change for 15-28?
My theory: when ADL taped out, the engineers knew they had a battery life regression. It was too late to do anything at that point. That's why for Raptor Lake, they re-introduced DLVR. They were forced to.

Good info here, even if the English is not perfect: https://www.world-today-news.com/th...ll-reduce-the-consumption-of-the-raptor-lake/

Remember this is not what Intel wants (hence why they didn't do DLVR post-Haswell). So, this December, I think you will have something positive to say about RPL-M's power frugality

(Intel, don't embarrass me, OKKKKKKKK????? )
 
Reactions: lightmanek

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,331
5,282
136
This model is actually 20 cores. It's from a virtual machine so it may just be configured to use 10 cores only.
Can we extrapolate the data and multiply the result by two?

743.60GOPS for that 20C/40T Work Station Class CPU.

It's about even with the 3960X 24C/48T ThreadRipper Pro and about 6% ahead of the 5950X


 
Reactions: lightmanek

IntelUser2000

Elite Member
Oct 14, 2003
8,686
3,785
136
My theory: when ADL taped out, the engineers knew they had a battery life regression. It was too late to do anything at that point. That's why for Raptor Lake, they re-introduced DLVR. They were forced to.

Good info here, even if the English is not perfect: https://www.world-today-news.com/th...ll-reduce-the-consumption-of-the-raptor-lake/

Remember this is not what Intel wants (hence why they didn't do DLVR post-Haswell). So, this December, I think you will have something positive to say about RPL-M's power frugality

(Intel, don't embarrass me, OKKKKKKKK????? )

The patent for DLVR was filed on 2020. It takes several years to put it into production so that theory makes no sense. Raptorlake was and is the first processor that would introduce DLVR.

Also the author has little to no knowledge on the subject(my criticism of uselessness of the modern press continues).

Haswell didn't get FiVR for cost savings, it was for reducing power use while keeping performance high. Earlt Intel presentations called Haswell to have a revolutionary power management scheme. Haswell brought the biggest battery life increase per gen in Intel's history! Of course FiVR was a component not the main reason but still. They said iGPU performance improved 35% because of it, while savings at the board level allowed putting in a battery 8% larger than before and Z dimension being several mm thinner.

Skylake also brought in a very novel concept called EARtH(lower capital intentional) for power management which I believe allowed iterants like Kabylake to make up for the loss of FiVR.

Bear in mind you can have FiVR while also having DLVR should Intel and it's partners wish.
 
Last edited:

nicalandia

Diamond Member
Jan 10, 2019
3,331
5,282
136
Not with Genoa, however, which is definitely an issue.
It's actually a pretty good score for that 2S System.

If we extrapolate the performance the 60C/120T(120C/240T 2S) system will yield about 93,5000 points which puts it right there the Highest Score delivered by Genoa...

But even Geekbench has it's limits for Thread Counts, the MT gains after 256T just takes a massive dive because Genoa should be delivering more than 170,000 Points(If we extrapolate the known performance of 64C Genoa)
 
Last edited:
Reactions: lightmanek

Zucker2k

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2006
1,810
1,159
136
It's actually a pretty good score for that 2S System.

If we extrapolate the performance the 60C/120T(120C/240T 2S) system will yield about 93,5000 points which puts it right there the Highest Score delivered by Genoa...

But even Geekbench has it's limits for Thread Counts, the MT gains after 256T just takes a massive dive because Genoa should be delivering more than 170,000 Points(If we extrapolate the known performance of 64C Genoa)
It is, indeed.
Clock for clock, it's better than Genoa.

 
Reactions: lightmanek
Jul 27, 2020
17,911
11,683
116
Looking forward to your conclusion that Intel should implement adaptive clocking for awesome power savings under load. /s
Really don't get the logic behind snarky comments from you and IntelUser2000. My apologies for hurting your eyes (and brain) with my posts. Just put me on ignore and be done with it.
 

Exist50

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2016
2,452
3,101
136
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |