Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

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Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
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Intel servers has been hanging on traditional enterprise sales where they are undercutting on price to the point where they don’t make any money. AMD is over 50% in cloud and enterprise is finally starting to open up too. The next releases from Intel will certainly help them but I’m not sure it will be enough to stop AMD from taking market share.
No disagreement that Intel has been selling pretty much at cost in order to keep the fab utilization up and minimize market share loss. But keep in mind that such is in large part a result of their products up until SRF still being on the Intel 7 node. Even if Intel sells a 64 core Emerald Rapids at the same price as a 64 core Genoa that's 2x750mm^2 dies versus 8x72mm^2 compute + 400mm^2 IO. The massive die size on Intel's side is financially viable if it could be sold around the $10k suggested retail price, but that's where the 128C Bergamo and 96C Genoa reside. So instead Intel's flagship has to sell closer to the next tier down around the $5k mark. (Note that these are by no means accurate absolute numbers, but should be reasonably close in relation to one another.)

One question though is what's the source on AMD being over 50% in cloud?
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,562
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One question though is what's the source on AMD being over 50% in cloud?

Lisa Su announced it a quarter or two ago, I believe during an earnings call. I should note, though, that AMD typically talks in terms of revenue share, though not always, so they were probably referencing revenue share but I'm not positive about that.
 

Henry swagger

Senior member
Feb 9, 2022
426
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Intel servers has been hanging on traditional enterprise sales where they are undercutting on price to the point where they don’t make any money. AMD is over 50% in cloud and enterprise is finally starting to open up too. The next releases from Intel will certainly help them but I’m not sure it will be enough to stop AMD from taking market share.
Amd will never habe 50% market share.. granite rapids will crush turin
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
14,820
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The massive die size on Intel's side is financially viable if it could be sold around the $10k suggested retail price

Even during the time Intel had 90% server market share, they never sold processors anywhere near the MSRP.

They clearly aren't getting enough profit off of each server chip to fund future nodes, that's for sure.
 

H433x0n

Golden Member
Mar 15, 2023
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Though we'll of course have to see where Turin ends up in actual benchmarks once it shows up to market - the lack of any Genoa/Bergamo to Turin performance comparisons in their presentation stands out.
I didn’t even notice that. I went back and checked how Genoa was presented and it was compared against Milan 7763. They also had plenty of benchmarks of Milan against Rome.

The saving grace here is that it was a “preview” and not a launch so it may not have any significance.
 

Khato

Golden Member
Jul 15, 2001
1,221
275
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Lisa Su announced it a quarter or two ago, I believe during an earnings call. I should note, though, that AMD typically talks in terms of revenue share, though not always, so they were probably referencing revenue share but I'm not positive about that.
Thanks, unfortunately I've had no luck finding a reference to such in the last 5 earnings call transcripts. They mostly just seem to mention the % revenue growth and how many new public instances are available. So probable that it was mentioned in one of their other events.

Even during the time Intel had 90% server market share, they never sold processors anywhere near the MSRP.

They clearly aren't getting enough profit off of each server chip to fund future nodes, that's for sure.
Well, they sold them for roughly MSRP at retail. But you're quite correct that all OEM and large scale purchases only pay a fraction of MSRP. Hence the caveat at the end of my statement that the numbers aren't accurate in absolute terms, but the ratios between them should be about right. Primary point was that the performance/$ of the top end SKU can be close to half that of the first step down. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that while Intel isn't nearly as uncompetitive in the hyperscaler/cloud arena as general benchmarks would imply thanks in large part to their accelerators, they're still far enough behind that they can't charge the margins of a 'top end' SKU.

I didn’t even notice that. I went back and checked how Genoa was presented and it was compared against Milan 7763. They also had plenty of benchmarks of Milan against Rome.

The saving grace here is that it was a “preview” and not a launch so it may not have any significance.
Agreed that it most likely has little to no significance, especially given the other issues with the performance claims in their presentation. But it certainly was an interesting omission.
 

del42sa

Member
May 28, 2013
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https://wccftech.com/intel-13th-14th-gen-instability-issues-buggy-microcode-etvb-fix-bios-fix-0x125/

Although Intel has yet to publicly issue a statement regarding the serious matter of instability that affects its high-end 13th and 14th Gen CPUs despite saying that it would do so a few months back, it looks like Igor's Lab has discovered internal documents (NDA) which spill the beans on what has been causing these issues from the start.

update: Intel deny the report:

“Contrary to earlier reports, Intel has not confirmed root cause and is continuing, with its partners, to investigate user reports regarding instability issues on unlocked Intel Core 13th and 14th generation (K/KF/KS) desktop processors.

The microcode patch referenced in press reports fixes an eTVB bug discovered by Intel while investigating the instability reports. While this issue is potentially contributing to instability, it is not the root cause.”

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-f...ility-issues-bios-with-new-microcode-underway
 
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lightisgood

Member
May 27, 2022
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SiliconFly

Golden Member
Mar 10, 2023
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So, I said "This is typical Lisa's AMD".


BTW, I'm very looking forward to see Granite Rapids-AP@128C.
It has almost same A100's AI performance.
I'm sure that GNR should break Turin at AI server market.
GNR is RWC and I'm not expecting much. Diamond Rapids would be the real game changer I think.
 

Hitman928

Diamond Member
Apr 15, 2012
5,562
8,681
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So, I said "This is typical Lisa's AMD".


Completely off topic for this thread but also a worthless drama article. A startup wanted AMD to pay them $1M and give them free MI300Xs to test them for MLperf. AMD would have been idiots to agree to that.
 
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ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,757
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The node advantage AMD has had for years will be gone by the end of the year. All the hopes and dreams for a brighter tomorrow may be gone. Intel said they were going to put AMD in their rear view mirror. Will we see AMD fire sale prices again? One can only hope that is the case.
I think Pat may need to re-evaluate that statement. MAYBE they will be ahead in the low power mobile with LL, but otherwise they are still playing catch up. As far as the process advantage, it just blows my mind that intel is touting their foundry processes and still using TSMC for their flagship products. Using them for ARL and LL is bad enough, but isnt even Panther Lake still using TSMC?
 
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Kepler_L2

Senior member
Sep 6, 2020
453
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I think Pat may need to re-evaluate that statement. MAYBE they will be ahead in the low power mobile with LL, but otherwise they are still playing catch up. As far as the process advantage, it just blows my mind that intel is touting their foundry processes and still using TSMC for their flagship products. Using them for ARL and LL is bad enough, but isnt even Panther Lake still using TSMC?
Panther Lake is mostly Intel nodes, outside of the iGPU on PTL-H.
 
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