Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread

[Hulk]

They can apply it to software artificially by creating buggy software and then providing fixes and updates on an ongoing subscription basis.

Most expensive software has a trial period of up to a month. If you don't find it works for you then don't buy it, right?

 

[Thunder 57]

I will fight subscriptions with every fiber of my being.

The reason corporations love this is because once you have customers hooked on monthly fees increasing revenue is as easy as adding ten cents or whatever to the monthly subscription.

It's a slow boil for the customer.

Comcast/Xfinity probably set the standard for this deception.

First, when the US government mandated OTA TV to be digital Comcast took that regulation and twisted it by saying now all TV's in your house, even those not OTA, ie cable must be digital.

Second, they said, "But don't worry, we'll supply for free digital adapter boxes for your TV's!"

This provided Comcast with complete control over every TV in a household AND more importantly when they started charging a rental for these boxes a guaranteed revenue stream. Now I think the boxes are like $8/month to rent. I ditched cable TV long ago so I'm not sure.

Hopefully we'll see Comcast/Xfinity going the way of Blockbuster sooner rather than later.

I remember those little boxes. They cost maybe $30-40 at the time. Then the government came in and said we'll give you a $30-40 voucher or whatever. Then all of a sudden those little boxes jumped up to around $70. A total scam. Same thing has happened elsewhere but I don't want to turn this into a P&N thread.

 

[witeken]

I wasn't saying it was right. I think it's terrible. I just wish more people would stand against the subscription as anything that is going on now.

The Intel SDS has been hugely overblown. This is how it has always worked: chip companies create artificial segmentation by artificially disabling features/cores/cache/... in a chip and then charging different amounts for those different SKUs.

The thing that Intel has now realized is that this segmenting is completely arbitrary, since the feature is still present on silicon. So if someone buys a lower-end SKU, then why not give them the option to upgrade to the higher-end SKU later on? It would be insane, as people seem to be suggesting here, that Intel should allow people to upgrade their silicon for free. Of course it's a paid program.

Edit: People seem to think/assume it's a subscription model, but there is no evidence that that is the case.

 

[coercitiv]

This is more of a fine-grained pricing approach rather than pay-as-you go in my opinion as maintenance on aircraft engines is very expensive. With software you buy it and it always is in the same condition as purchased.

Not only that, from the sounds of it Intel wants the upfront cost as well as the subscription. And they're not the only one, Samsung wants a (monthly) piece of the pie as well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1594019069329821696

The thing that Intel has now realized is that this segmenting is completely arbitrary

Yes, that's exactly what happened, they had an epiphany and realized their fully intended segmentation is completely arbitrary.

 

[jpiniero]

That makes it sound like you can disable it after paying if the demand isn't there at the time. Intel isn't going to give money back to the customer for that. There's also a reason why they are giving specific software to monitor usage of unlocked features by sysadmins. This is "Pay As You Go" nightmare for anyone wanting to reduce TCO.

I guess we will have to see.

Right now I'm more concerned about the security aspect of this. Regardless of whether it's one time payment or subscription, it sounds like you have to unlock it using the Internet. That sounds like a security disaster waiting to happen.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Edit: People seem to think/assume it's a subscription model, but there is no evidence that that is the case.

Based on Intel's public statements, you pay on a demand basis. Whether that's per month or per millisecond remains to be seen. It also looks like a security nightmare. @jpiniero is right on that aspect of it.

 

[Doug S]

The "we want subscription income" thing has already ruined the app ecosystem, so everything is "free" with add on payments. Now that philosophy is trying to ruin cars and PCs. I guess next will be smartphones, you want access to that 10x zoom feature or to get this month's security update you better pay up!

 

[nicalandia]

Intel On Demand Official Page.

Intel On Demand

Intel On Demand offers flexible consumption capabilities and the ability to scale performance and capacity in response to real-time demand.

www.intel.com

 

[igor_kavinski]

At least they are offering choice. But the pricing will decide if there really is a choice.

Nothing stopping them from making the licensed one-time activation so expensive that customers choose the metered option to save some money upfront but pay more in the long run.

It looks like some damn VP from the cloud computing industry has infiltrated Intel's ranks.

 

[Hulk]

There is always another option that is not subscription based. It might not be as good as the subscription based on but it'll get the job done. That's how we protest. I've got enough greedy hands in my pocket already.

 

[nicalandia]

Intel On Demand Consumption Model Overview and Benefits

Intel Events: Tech Conferences for Cloud, IoT & More

Find an upcoming tech conference, expo or networking event for the latest PC innovation or tech solution in cloud, IoT, gaming, IT, and more.

www.intel.com

Video Explaining The "Benefits"

 

[moinmoin]

I'm hoping for

 

[Hulk]

Intel On Demand Consumption Model Overview and Benefits

Intel Events: Tech Conferences for Cloud, IoT & More

Find an upcoming tech conference, expo or networking event for the latest PC innovation or tech solution in cloud, IoT, gaming, IT, and more.

www.intel.com

Video Explaining The "Benefits"
View attachment 71523

Hard to understand these guys because they are drooling so much as the prospect of a pay as you go platform. Raising revenue is as easy as notching up monthly fees a few cents now and then. Slow boil the customer as I wrote earlier.

Thing is it makes no sense to sell a product that is fully able to perform at max capacity and then artificially limit it waiting for the customer to buy more of what they already paid for. What happens to this business model is nobody pays more than the lowest price? All of that capacity is wasted and Intel loses money? No, I'm sure the bean counters have that all worked out.

If they really wanted to help their customers as they say they would offer a trade in/trade up program where you could trade in one part for a more performant one at a reasonable cost. Of course they would also have to keep the platform more viable through generations like AMD does.

I hope AMD sees a massive opportunity here to expose Intel's nefarious scheme.

 

[nicalandia]

Hard to understand these guys because they are drooling so much as the prospect of a pay as you go platform.

I hope AMD sees a massive opportunity here to expose Intel's nefarious scheme.

That is exactly The feeling I got after watching the Video.

Intel had to execute a perfect plan to keep their market share from shriveling down, and this is NOT helping.

 

[Exist50]

I think the problem, as Intel sees it, is that there's a very stark difference in the value prop of Sapphire Rapids between the accelerated use cases and not. So for most of the market, they'll be forced to price SPR commensurate with the gap vs Genoa (i.e. cheaply), but those who'd benefit from the accelerators would be willing to pay far more. So it boils down to price discrimination based on use case.

 

[nicalandia]

I think the problem, as Intel sees it, is that there's a very stark difference in the value prop of Sapphire Rapids between the accelerated use cases and not. So for most of the market, they'll be forced to price SPR commensurate with the gap vs Genoa (i.e. cheaply), but those who'd benefit from the accelerators would be willing to pay far more. So it boils down to price discrimination based on use case.

But paring Genoa or any other CPU with the right accelerator Be it GPU/ASIC will provide much better performance at a lower TCO.

There is so much the SPR-HBM with AMX/AVX-512 AI can do on it's own when compared to dedicated accelerator cards.

 

[Exist50]

But paring Genoa or any other CPU with the right accelerator Be it GPU/ASIC will provide much better performance at a lower TCO.

There is so much the SPR-HBM with AMX/AVX-512 AI can do on it's own when compared to dedicated accelerator cards.

Some overlap, but fundamentally different markets. CPU-based matrix ops (so Intel's AMX, but also ARM/Apple's) exists primarily for low latency inference, particularly with small batch sizes. GPUs struggle with those use cases, which is why a large amount of inferencing workloads still run on CPUs.

And some of the other accelerators, e.g. DSA and IAA, don't really have PCIe equivalents. And either way, Intel just has to undercut the pricing of any alternatives.

 

[jpiniero]

No Dell? Is Dell not Intel's BFF anymore?

At least they are offering choice. But the pricing will decide if there really is a choice.

You know, I was wondering how the OEMs would be included in this.

 

[nicalandia]

At least this seems to be pitched at The High End Cloud. When I first read about Intel's SDSi I thought about Core and Accelerators unlocking(which is basically what this is), but for everyone including the HEDT and DIY Xeon W9 segment. But this at least for the moment does not seem to be the case.

The DIY Market would seem to have been left out of this nefarious "Feature"..

 

[zir_blazer]

The DIY Market would seem to have been left out of this nefarious "Feature"..

Amusing because they tried it with OEMs end users first with the Intel Upgrade Service during Nehalem and Sandy Bridge generations. On DIY I was expecting AVX-512 to be sold as an upgradeable feature. Also remember than SGX is missing from consumer, whereas it is available on Xeons AND now they are intending to provide it as an extra paid feature.

I was highly curious about how the Upgrade Service worked, since it means than both Nehalem and Sandy Bridge (At least two dies) had to have support to have a factory programmed "good/bad silicon" and "enabled silicon", leaving an opening to enable on demand the rest of the "good silicon". My wet dream was that someone managed to crack how it worked so that we could unlock Cores, Cache and Hyper Threading, a la AMD Phenom II era, but there was NO research done on that than I recall. Who knows if all architecture in the middle also had provisions to be field upgradeable...

 

[DrMrLordX]

I hope AMD sees a massive opportunity here to expose Intel's nefarious scheme.

Sadly, if history in other markets is any indicator, it'll show AMD that they can get away with the same crap once people start paying Intel subscription money.

 

[nicalandia]

Witeken talking nonsense yet again

https://twitter.com/x/status/1535929561371885569

 

[Exist50]

Witeken talking nonsense yet again
View attachment 71529

https://twitter.com/x/status/1535929561371885569

In theory, there's no technical reason stopping Intel from making such a product. Whether they bother to do so is another matter.

 

[coercitiv]

Now that philosophy is trying to ruin cars and PCs. I guess next will be smartphones

I think you're being paranoid. /s

Spoiler

 

[jpiniero]

^^^

Google copied that from Apple, who's had something similar for several years now.