Would they change their mind if or when new Intel board cuts GPU money losing business and there will be no more "day 1" driver updates? I guess we'll find out soon.
Ironically the more they buy the more likely that will happen.
Would they change their mind if or when new Intel board cuts GPU money losing business and there will be no more "day 1" driver updates? I guess we'll find out soon.People do NOT care if Intel is losing money or not, people are mostly concerned about getting a good value product. It's as simple as that.
And the Pro Fit has spoken...
Well, evena broken clockMLID can be right from time to time, volume is clearly low because the more you buy the more Intel loses!
P.S. Looks like MLID is feeling the heat from the current popular opinion that new Arc is great, so he is adjusting his narrative a tad.
I guess poor people can't be hardware enthusiasts.But I mean come, is this level on performance on screen here, a third the performance of the competition's two year old flagship that's cut down, is that enthusiast? I'm not going to answer that question for you because, honestly, if you can't answer that question honestly for your self looking at the data this week, then I think it's time to stop trying to convince you what's going on here. That a 12GB 2080 super in 2024, it shouldn't be hard to discern if that's actually enthusiast.
PC hardware enthusiast in old days - getting cheap stuff and overclocking it to gain a LOT more perf.I guess poor people can't be hardware enthusiasts.
Would they change their mind if or when new Intel board cuts GPU money losing business and there will be no more "day 1" driver updates? I guess we'll find out soon.
Ironically the more they buy the more likely that will happen.
Most of your posts seem like uneducated guesses at best and intentional trolling at worst. Like you you claimed Battlemage was using 20k$ n4 wafers while the rx 7600 was using 9.5k N7 wafers....Would they change their mind if or when new Intel board cuts GPU money losing business and there will be no more "day 1" driver updates? I guess we'll find out soon.
Ironically the more they buy the more likely that will happen.
I provided sources to the costs, they are also easily obtained by Googling -you claimed Battlemage was using 20k$ n4 wafers while the rx 7600 was using 9.5k N7 wafers....
Intel using a +40 dollar die
AMD is able to sell their cards at a margin high enough that they are able to cover all the R&D, manufacturing, marketing
That's not on consumers
Your source said 18k for n4, battlemage uses N5 which is quoted as 15-16k. If n4 is more expensive than N5, N6 is also likely more expensive than N7. Guess what uses N6 not N7... the rx 7600. N7 is listed at 10k, even being genererous N6 is probably around 11k at least.I provided sources to the costs, they are also easily obtained by Googling -
1) tsmc n7 wafer cost
2) tsmc n4 wafer price
I said +40 dollars meaning +40 dollars from AMD rx 7600 die(twice as expensive). and +10 for 4gb memory. All other costs being similar that means that the b580 only costs around 50 dollars more to produce than the rx 7600, well within margin to break even. AMD prices their cards to have a margin so they can pay for R&D and other costs. Intel pricing their cards low to gain mindshare and cuz even pricing their cards higher likely not enough to pay for R&D anyways, they are invested long term.In order for this to be true a 300 sq mm chip with perfect yield giving 200 per wafer would need to have wafer cost of $8000.
Their consoles sell better than their cards but at the same time have lower margin, which is the entire point of a console, low margin but high volume of the same one product. AMD makes a healthy margin off their cards, it is not crazy to think that battlemage is not losing intel money for each card they sell.AMD has got revenues from consoles that sell better than their cards, well, until Xbox sales tanked, now that's a problem.
Your source said 18k for n4, battlemage uses N5 which is quoted as 15-16k.
I said +40 dollars meaning +40 dollars from AMD rx 7600 die(twice as expensive)
Intel pricing their cards low to gain mindshare
What? How do you draw that N5 prices will for sure go up by 11% based on that quote from tom's hardware about N4? Why do you apply this stretch of reasoning to increasing N5 prices and not N6?"Negotiations with AI and HPC customers, such as Nvidia, suggest these clients can tolerate approximately 10% price hikes for 4nm-class wafers from around $18,000 per wafer to around $20,000 per wafer. As a result, the 4nm and 5nm nodes, primarily used by companies like AMD and Nvidia, are expected to see an 11% blended average selling price (ASP) hike." Source:TSMC may increase wafer pricing by 10% for 2025: Report
Chips are getting more expensive.www.tomshardware.com
If N5 is indeed 16k, then price goes up by 11% in the new year and becomes $18k - happy now? Does it change things materially? No.
Intel uses +33% (not 50%) more silicon with 1.4x the wafer price MAX since N5 is quoted as being between 15-16k and N6 is likely at least 11K. Look at Joe's above posts, his own calculations also yielded around a 2x die cost. Are you intentionally making huge miscalculations in your data or are you just stupid?? How is 272 vs 204mm a 50% increase, a quick calculator result can tell you its 33% not 50%. Also even with your 50% die size and 2x wafer cost BS, how do you get 3.5 times more expensive for the die. Did you just add the .5 for fun?False for obvious reasons - it simply can't be true: rx 7600 is 204 sq mm die (techpowerup data) and it's on N6 which is priced at $9500 as Google search above shows, Intel uses 50% more silicon for DOUBLE the price, yields will also be worse - they are 3-3.5 times more expensive to make than rx 7600, that can not be +40 bucks unless AMD pays 15 bucks for their dies.
No, that's not obvious at all if you actually follow how semi manufacturing nodes get progressed and for what reasons.if N7 is already 10k, then N6 is obviously more expensive.
I rounded it a bit up (200 vs 300), relax, now factor in yield that you conveniently ignore, you might get to that 50% a lot closer than you think.Intel uses +33% (not 50%) more silicon
Yes it is obvious. N4 is 2-3k more expensive while providing around 6 percent transistor density and 11% performance. N6 provides 18% transistor density and double digit performance numbers and somehow you think it isn't more expensive than N7?No, that's not obvious at all if you actually follow how semi manufacturing nodes get progressed and for what reasons.
I don't purposefully ignore it, you never addressed it in your calculations which I was responding to. Even factoring in yield, it's unlikely to make more than a single digit difference as yields on these more mature nodes are all relatively good. Also it's not just about chip size and defect rate, it's also about parametric yield. Intel's chip is much less dense compared to other N5 chips meaning it likely yields better.I rounded it a bit up (200 vs 300), relax, now factor in yield that you conveniently ignore, you might get to that 50% a lot closer than you think.
Yes, more than a year ago when Pat was running the show. Nothing changed since then...This has already been budgeted
Like I said, they could have priced it at 300$ if they wished to making up for the +40 dollars die +10 ram. Regardless of the budget of the BOM, Pat is no longer at Intel and they could have chosen to price it 300, they don't need a year in advance to change the price. They priced it at 250$ because their margins can likely take it and they aren't focused on maximizing profit right now anyways. If they were losing money on each battlemage card at 250$ I guarantee they would price it higher because it would still sell even at 300 dollars.Yes, more than a year ago when Pat was running the show. Nothing changed since then...
Not now it isn't, what was N7 became N7/6 - same rules, but it's up to chip designers to shrink design to take full advantage of N6 which will give benefit of reduction in area size/perf. If it was more expensive than Sony would have never switched to it in PlayStation 5.N6 provides 18% transistor density and double digit performance numbers and somehow you think it isn't more expensive than N7?
they aren't focused on maximizing profit
No they aren't the same. They are separate products that customers can choose between. Just look at N3, N3E, N3P, N3x, N3B. They all still exist separately and have different costs. Why if TSMC is maintaining so many separate N3 N4 etc derivatives at once, you think that N7 is discontinued because N6 exists...Not now it isn't, what was N7 became N7/6 - same rules, but it's up to chip designed to shrink design to take full advantage of N6 which will give benefit of reduction in area size/perf. If it was more expensive than Sony would have never switched to it in PlayStation 5.
What are you even talking about. It's not companies fidiciary duty to maximize short term profits, there is more to a company's strategy than just milking as much money as they can right now. Did you even read what I said btw? I said they aren't focused on maximizing profits RIGHT NOW, why did you conveniently leave that out of the quote??? They are clearly trading short term profits on this generation for mind/market share and to generally get their cards out there so they can have a testing bed to improve drivers.It's their fidiciary duty to do so, they could go to jail if they don't.
I still think it’s most likely that Intel is building this business for their fabs to have a good customer in the future vs making money now. A calculated investment. Probably
No they aren't the same. They are separate products that customers can choose between. Just look at N3, N3E, N3P, N3x, N3B. They all still exist separately and have different costs. Why if TSMC is maintaining so many separate N3 N4 etc derivatives at once, you think that N7 is discontinued because N6 exists...
Many of TSMC nodes are design rule compatible, for example their upcoming N2 node will be fully design compatible with A16, TSMC still keeps both as options for customers regardless because they have different costs and different advantages.
They are clearly trading short term profits on this generation for mind/market share and to generally get their cards out there so they can have a testing bed to improve drivers.
What I don't get is why not have these on "Intel 3"
Sure! When BoD cans arc I'll delete my account. If celestial releases as planned you delete yours agreed?Let's bookmark this page and revisit it soon when the beancounting BoD cans the ArchMage like a tuna
Oh why not, I picked a crap name anyway!Sure! When BoD cans arc I'll delete my account. If celestial releases as planned you delete yours agreed?
aHAHAHAHAIt's their fidiciary duty to do so, they could go to jail if they don't.
optimismN6 provides 18% transistor density
2% if you're lucky lmao.and double digit performance numbers