News Intel GPUs - Falcon Shores cancelled

[ajsdkflsdjfio]

Exist50 reporting celestial dGPU dead

Also seems to imply battlemage took a hit to margins for higher sales versus higher margins/lower sales, at least according to their lower initial projections. Supposedly they didn't plan for battlemage demand to be so high.

 

[gdansk]

He also said what remained of the Royal team was transferred to GPU/NPU - presumably AI crap not actually GPU. This was some time ago.
So it's weird that the board complained Pat wasn't prioritizing AI, can't think what else they could do with the limited resources available.

But personally I think the world would (yes, the WORLD) have been better off with Royal than more ML crap.

 

[ajsdkflsdjfio]

He also said what remained of the Royal team was transferred to GPU/NPU - presumably AI crap not actually GPU. This was some time ago.
So it's weird that the board complained Pat wasn't prioritizing AI, can't think what else they could do with the limited resources available.

But personally I think the world would have been better off with Royal than more ML crap.

Also what Exist50 seems to believe in his posts. Alternatively you have other people with supposed insider information saying this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/intel/comments/1f945fl/some_rumors_about_the_royal_core_project

Exist50 reporting celestial dGPU dead

I really hope Celestial dGPU isn't actually cancelled. Its meant to be a larger generational change than battlemage was meaning it might've been the first chance Intel had at actually competing in area/perf/power efficiency and perhaps most importantly cost. Though, at the very least we'll be able to compare panther lake 12xe3 N3E vs lunar lake 8xe2 N3B.

 

[Win2012R2]

Oh noes, all of Celestial was cancelled and killing off all client dGPUs???

We do know what that means...

 

[ajsdkflsdjfio]

Oh noes, all of Celestial was cancelled and killing off all client dGPUs???

We do know what that means...

Lol, I mean Exist50 isn't a psychic, though his insistence certainly doesn't bode well.

Either way, my only point was to highlight that battlemage cards probably weren't losing Intel money for each card they produce. I am definitely optimistic about Celestial but the only reason I bet on it was because of your abhorrent misinformation about Battlemage but WTVR. Celestial being canceled would suck much more than me deleting my account.

 

[DigDog]

Possible it's an older BIOS with no support for Ryzen 5000.

but then i would be able to get into bios, no?

 

[igor_kavinski]

but then i would be able to get into bios, no?

Nah. WIthout CPU support, it can't POST. The repair shop may have a Ryzen 3000 lying around which can then be used to POST and update to the latest BIOS.

You could ask GIgabyte support or AMD themselves. They may lend a CPU to you for updating BIOS.

 

[Tup3x]

For that reason I specifically bought a board that supports BIOS flashing without CPU.

 

[DigDog]

Nah. WIthout CPU support, it can't POST. The repair shop may have a Ryzen 3000 lying around which can then be used to POST and update to the latest BIOS.

You could ask GIgabyte support or AMD themselves. They may lend a CPU to you for updating BIOS.

this board should support a 5600x out of the box.
.. i think. revision 1.7

 

[igor_kavinski]

revision 1.7

Revision written on the mobo itself?

 

[DigDog]

Revision written on the mobo itself?

yessir. manual states
5000 series ryzen are supported.

 

[Hans Gruber]

but then i would be able to get into bios, no?

You probably have your bios setup for fast boot. To get into bios without a flash screen. You have to boot your computer and press the Del and F2 over and over to get into bios during boot. It doesn't always work. So try again and again until you get into your bios. Then disable fast boot.

 

[DigDog]

You probably have your bios setup for fast boot. To get into bios without a flash screen. You have to boot your computer and press the Del and F2 over and over to get into bios during boot. It doesn't always work. So try again and again until you get into your bios. Then disable fast boot.

new mobo ...

 

[darkswordsman17]

This is why people hoping Intel would've changed things were just fools. They were never going to adhere to dGPU market because there was no realistic chance to undo Nvidia's dominance and even Intel I think was planning to go at the low market with iGPU (which is fundamentally different from dGPU development likely because it has to focus so much on packaging and efficiency/die size, but people act like well dGPU will help iGPU but it doesn't seem to really work that way). Its funny that they're pivoting to try to go at NVidia's AI dominance instead, which is probably as unrealistic for them. There's some consortium and partnering with others working to try to form alternative options to Nvidia, but many of the big AI companies are looking at doing their own stuff (like they were starting towards in enterprise CPU because of Intel acting like Nvidia).

I do think Intel is making a bonehead short term decision here, in that they could benefit from making Battlemage esque dGPU chips in their own fabs, bypassing tariffs which would let them keep a market benefit and get a good chunk of revenue, plus some possible marketshare. It could've even gotten them some console wins or something (which they then could've made APUs for those customers in the future). They could've gone for the playbook AMD used in CPU there, which would've helped rehabilitate their brand image (and people were litterally begging them). But I suppose investors think anything not explicitly for AI is wrong, but they could have sold these under the guise as useful for the AI crap Microsoft is shoving into everything.

I really wish we could see what a modern GPU design, but clocked low (compensate with more CUs/XeU or whatever, larger cache, etc), on older processes (that are more mature and low cost). I have a hunch it would actually be worthwhile, since cache doesn't benefit from shrinks as much, and it would spread out the heat more.

He also said what remained of the Royal team was transferred to GPU/NPU - presumably AI crap not actually GPU. This was some time ago.
So it's weird that the board complained Pat wasn't prioritizing AI, can't think what else they could do with the limited resources available.

But personally I think the world would (yes, the WORLD) have been better off with Royal than more ML crap.

Have you not met AI evangelists and investorbros? They wanted Intel to basically just pivot everything to AI, and years ago (by that I mean, people investing for AI now are upset that Intel didn't make the decision to pivot to AI like a decade ago so that Intel would've been a worthwhile AI investment similar to Nvidia, with the assumption that they would've invested heavily before it blew up in value order to reap the benefits now).

Certainly, wait, I mean, didn't you know AI will save us all, just like crypto was going to!

 

[Win2012R2]

but clocked low (compensate with more CUs/XeU or whatever, larger cache, etc), on older processes

That's just making chip more expensive due to bigger area to compensate for low clocks and on older processes that means a lot less transistor per sq mm, so you need yet more area to compensate for that also, end result is completely uncompetitive GPU that has no chance. Intel needs 50% gross margins on high volume products, this isn't it and can't possibly be it.

 

[blckgrffn]

I do think Intel is making a bonehead short term decision here, in that they could benefit from making Battlemage esque dGPU chips in their own fabs, bypassing tariffs which would let them keep a market benefit and get a good chunk of revenue, plus some possible marketshare. It could've even gotten them some console wins or something (which they then could've made APUs for those customers in the future). They could've gone for the playbook AMD used in CPU there, which would've helped rehabilitate their brand image (and people were litterally begging them). But I suppose investors think anything not explicitly for AI is wrong, but they could have sold these under the guise as useful for the AI crap Microsoft is shoving into everything.

Foundry was late and disapointing and this meant that Intel had to go to TSMC to field a competitive product.

Sound familiar? What you are referring to is exactly what I think Intel was planning on all along.

Beyond that, it'll be interesting if they can make driver improvements to better use the hardware and be less CPU bound. That would be a second round victory, I think.

 

[Hans Gruber]

new mobo ...

In that case. Send it back unless you have an old Zen CPU to get the computer updated.

 

[DigDog]

In that case. Send it back unless you have an old Zen CPU to get the computer updated.

..why?
this mobo has out of the box support for ryzen 5000.
it may actually be the cpu that died. even the B450 i had before supported my 5600x, if there was an easy to find culprit i would have found it.

 

[blckgrffn]

..why?
this mobo has out of the box support for ryzen 5000.
it may actually be the cpu that died. even the B450 i had before supported my 5600x, if there was an easy to find culprit i would have found it.

Time to get that 5700x3d you always wanted???

 

[igor_kavinski]

Still doesn't make much sense. How can the CPU go kaput unless the damaged slot somehow overvolted the CPU via the CPU's PCIe lanes? Maybe some CPU pin is bent enough that it's no longer making proper contact?

 

[DigDog]

Maybe some CPU pin is bent enough that it's no longer making proper contact?

how can that happen when the cpu is seated in the socket, with the fan holding it down??

 

[blckgrffn]

Still doesn't make much sense. How can the CPU go kaput unless the damaged slot somehow overvolted the CPU via the CPU's PCIe lanes? Maybe some CPU pin is bent enough that it's no longer making proper contact?

CPUs die. I’ve not done it myself but I’ve been given them by friends and bought them on eBay. In my experience if they are dead it’s just like what he’s experiencing.

If @DigDog is getting a beep code or diag led of bad cpu that would support the theory.

 

[eek2121]

Came here for news (and maybe leaks) saw comments about node prices. Chill. Don't ask for sources unless you have experience in sales for expensive things. There is NOT a standard price except possibly a paper price. If you are in the US, just look at your pre/post insurance bill for a hospital stay. The prices differ by hundreds of percent.

Sales of other items aren't that big, however the differences are substantial. One company I worked for had as much as a 180% swing AT SAME VOLUME based only on how good salespeople between customer and vendor were. This product was over a hundred grand a year. Companies do what they can to maximize revenue.

I have some older numbers for TSMC which I also cannot provide, but were listed by media, and the difference between the two was 53%. What I've seen in so called "leaks" (which is where I got the $12,000 number from, N3 class runs about 4 grand more from what I understand) vs charts I've seen (which vary by website and time period) is in line.

Prices even vary by run, size of run, etc. Some companies may opt for more stable pricing, that means they pay a stable price for a longer term, but they pay more than others. Some companies aggressively chase the lowest prices, etc. Everything is also under NDA. That is why demanding proof is silly unless you yourself are willing to provide proof of the own numbers you provided. Anyone signing these contracts is in trouble if they disclose terms, and very few (including no engineers except in the smallest of cases) know specifics. The numbers that have been listed are definitely on the high side, but they assume no volume, and no negotiation. Bargaining with TSMC, GloFo, Intel, and others for 100,000 wafers means you get to say 'no' to too high of a price. TSMC knows this and plays aggressively.

Look at Intel's earnings reports 1-2 quarters from now. If you see an uplift, you'll know I'm right. I'm not here to be right, just to educate.

On a better note, I saw a random guy with no credit on X (user and post now deleted obviously, had no comments either) claiming Intel's top SKU was basically double the 580? has anyone seen anything similar? That would be quite a part if so. He also claimed 32gb.

I might build a PC for one of my kids next year, and if I do, I'm looking at Battlemage for the GPU. Intel has knocked this one out of the park. I have a 1440p monitor to pair with it as well.

 

[tajoh111]

Who at Intel was the mastermind behind this genious move to cancel the 24- core 12GB version ?
It would look so much better even at 329$ maybe streach it to 349$. They would deff profit on this vs b580 net-zero

View attachment 113432

It seems like AMD older generation is aging kind of badly. The RTX 3070 used to be very close to the 6700xt.

Same with the RTX 3060 and rx 6600. Like less than a 10% difference in performance. Now It's way worse. Like double the performance difference.

Techpowerup is showing similar results. Below is old results.

This is from the B580 review.

Usually its the reverse. This should be particularly the case for the RTX 3070. The RTX 3080 is now 6900xt in performance.

Has AMD layoffs affected their last gen performance? Correction, even the RX 7600 is starting to lose performance too. The RTX 4070 super used to be 7% faster than a 7800xt now it is 15%.

AMD cards are aging badly , particularly their last generation.

 

[DavidC1]

On a better note, I saw a random guy with no credit on X (user and post now deleted obviously, had no comments either) claiming Intel's top SKU was basically double the 580? has anyone seen anything similar? That would be quite a part if so. He also claimed 32gb.

I don't know how they can pull 2x. The biggest die has 32 Xe cores, or 60% more than 580. The bus width goes from 192 bit to 256 bit so a 33% improvement.

The rest it has to make it up in clocks, and B580 is already quite high at 2.85GHz. Without extra clocks, you'll get only about 45-50% gains. 3.5GHz gets us 20% higher, which is 1.7-1.8x, and close to the rumored RTX 4070 Super figure. 2x would require 4GHz clocks. Another assumption is that the 33% extra bandwidth is enough.

Note that even if it doesn't need to increase voltage, 2x performance will require having better efficiency, despite clocking 40% higher. This assumes that the driver bottleneck is fixed, because it's already bottlenecking B580 and with a 9800X3D at that!

I might build a PC for one of my kids next year, and if I do, I'm looking at Battlemage for the GPU. Intel has knocked this one out of the park. I have a 1440p monitor to pair with it as well.

Unless my guesses about them having a driver with lower overhead coming is true, you'll need a fairly decent CPU. I think for Alchemist it was Zen 3 with R5 series or later.

@gaav87 In the vast majority of scenarios, a 24 Xe core part will only be 10-12% faster. That's really nothing in the big picture. Since there's always unknown when creating a silicon part, they couldn't have forseen this perfectly.