News Intel GPUs - Falcon Shores cancelled

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Meteor Late

Senior member
Dec 15, 2023
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This is not GTX 1060 6GB vs RX 480 8GB in like 2016 or 2017, 6GB were fine back then, because the consoles were 8GB of which they could use less than that for GPU allocation, closer to 6GB.
Now, in this exact moment, 8GB are clearly insufficient for some games even at 1080p and even at lower than ultra settings. Consoles have 16GB of which the GPU can allocate less than that but clearly a whole lot more than 8GB.
What I mean by this is that B580 is the better buy even at the same price. If only 10% more performance was the only real merit, then I would say no, but the Vram difference is felt even today, it's not about "future-proofing" like it was with 480.
 
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DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,066
2,554
126
i just got a reply from overclockers.co.uk

.. they say my B580 is functional. lol.
troubleshooting;
ran with 1 stick of ram, rotating sticks
reset CMOS
replaced motherboard

the "Arc" logo lights up, so obviously the EVGA 1Kw platinum im running it on isn't at fault, also considering it was powering a RTX 590 just before.


monitor works when a different source is plugged in.
the repair shop swapped GPUs and confirmed they can boot into windows on my machine(they even told me my login name), so all components really should be working.

At this point i fail to see how the Arc could be functional. I guess we'll just have to wait & see.
 

DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
1,363
2,222
96
Sorry but this is a misunderstanding.

Mass production often means either machines or pasted in a way to reduce time as much as possible. The simplest way is a thermal paste that is in a form of a pad, and the amount isn't perfect.

When you are re-pasting a GPU, you don't need to worry about that. This is a example of compromise being made in engineering all the time. Time versus money versus quality.
At this point i fail to see how the Arc could be functional. I guess we'll just have to wait & see.
Should have asked to test your ARC.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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ARC's driver overhead:
It remains unchanged from A series; damned shame. It also appears to continue suffering more than AMD and Nvidia from PCIe 3.0.

He has the same frustrations I have with it. Needing 3rd party tools is unacceptable. It has to be PnP and it's not. r/IntelARC has a fair number of post already, asking questions about why they are having performance issues with it.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
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The overhead can and will be fixed, I'm certain of it, because it's needed for higher end GPUs like B770 and future generations like Celestial.
Hope you are right, but I'm dubious based on how long it's been since Alchemist released. I don't have the technical background to make an educated guess though; I'm no IEEE guy. And I appreciate your explanation about SIMD8 and 16 in another thread. Running a search gave me some heavy reading material.
 

DavidC1

Golden Member
Dec 29, 2023
1,363
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Celestial Desktop is dead, so the fix will not come soon.
Semantics.

There's a Hardware Canucks review about it now. He says even Ryzen 5600 shows signs of overhead.

Someone else said "Celestial" is now based on Druid, so unless we see Intel completely can their dGPU development, faster GPU is coming in the future, thus it's inevitable they fix the overhead or face the consequences.

And rumors indicate a greater chance a B770 is coming, so they'll have to address it by that point which is very soon, because a 60-80% faster GPU will show significant overhead even in 1440p and with 9800X3D. Actually with that level of performance even 4K will show bottlenecks.
He has the same frustrations I have with it. Needing 3rd party tools is unacceptable. It has to be PnP and it's not. r/IntelARC has a fair number of post already, asking questions about why they are having performance issues with it.
Yea significant amount of people there are in denial and it won't help the many newbies that will be upset by it.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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There's a Hardware Canucks review about it now. He says even Ryzen 5600 shows signs of overhead.
I was using a 5600X with PBO 4.85GHz with the A750LE and in Spiderman it would freeze while trying to load assets with the settings turned up past medium. Iceberg tech has videos showing it happen. Web-slinging around Broadway near the streets when it's crowded, is a the spot where it happens. It did not happen when paired with a 5800X3D. Aussie Steve shows the B580 tanking hard in Spiderman using a Ryzen 2600. PS5 has dedicated hardware for Oodle Kraken and Oodle texture, but on PC the CPU has to handle it.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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EuroGamer/DF interviewed the Nixxes devs about the game. It's a good read - https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfo...an-remastered-on-pc-the-nixxes-tech-interview

Jurjen Katsman: There are a few things going on there that are interesting and we're actually still making some changes to the code right now. So as I think you know, from your early analysis, to achieve 60fps on PS5 with ray tracing it makes other compromises [even beyond ray tracing]. So it turns down crowd density for example, or there's fewer cars around. And so that compensates for some of those CPU things, and we didn't make that very easy for the user to do in the [early review] build you played. So we are actually offering up some more options to make that to allow that to be better balanced [in the retail build].

And in general, the game originally came from the PS4 right? The PS4 CPU cores were not so stellar and the PS5 and the PCs were far more powerful. With the PS5, that gap has certainly gotten smaller. And there's still quite a few things on the PC where there's more overhead, like the APIs have more overhead, we don't have the decompressor for example, we don't have hardware doing decompression for us as we're streaming in content - that gets left to the CPU. So we certainly have more CPU challenges to go around even when we're doing the same things. And then if we don't dial down things that are dialled down on the console, we now have even more work to do on the CPU.

So okay, so if you have a PS5 game that fully loads all the CPU cores, then yeah, PC CPUs that don't have the same core count, for example, or the same processing power, they'll be in a tricky spot, right? And they will have to rely on lower settings of scalability, as well. But I think that's important about PC, right, that we do have that scalability, we do offer all those options. And you can run it in a way that works well for your system, no matter what.

Michiel Roza:It's even worse for us because we also have the added overhead of the abstraction layer to DX12 and the DXR abstraction layer, which is obviously very lean on the Sony side. So even if you have a more powerful CPU than on the PlayStation 5, you might still end up with a lower frame-rate.

Digital Foundry: That is what I imagine would happen too. So you mentioned decompression being done on the CPU on the PC. In that case, are you using a similar compression file format as on PS5 or is it something else?

Jurjen Katsman:
It uses similar techniques, in some ways, like structurally how we've approached it as we do in PlayStation 5 but we have built something specifically for PC. We've also been exploring things like DirectStorage. So some of it is also about trying to think about that for the future. But we're not using utilising DirectStorage here right now, as you've probably seen.
I forgot to add that they did all they could to make it scalable on even ancient CPUs and did an outstanding job. At higher crowd and traffic densities, and especially RT, the CPU starts getting hammered. My favorite quote about CPU scaling -

Michiel Roza: I don't think we support the Phenom 2 this time.

Jurjen Katsman: That is quite possible.

Rebecca Fernandez: We gave it up, finally.

[everyone laughs]

Michiel Roza: There was always a project of mine to make Phenom 2 work.
 
Last edited:

Heartbreaker

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2006
4,653
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136
There's a Hardware Canucks review about it now. He says even Ryzen 5600 shows signs of overhead.

Wasn't there always signs of driver overhead in all the original reviews even with 9800X3D.

I seem to remember it being said when B580 improved relative performance moving up in resolution (or worsened as you lowered resolution depending on perspective) compared to the competition, that driver overhead was likely.
 

Meteor Late

Senior member
Dec 15, 2023
266
292
96
And rumors indicate a greater chance a B770 is coming, so they'll have to address it by that point which is very soon, because a 60-80% faster GPU will show significant overhead even in 1440p and with 9800X3D. Actually with that level of performance even 4K will show bottlenecks.

And you are assuming they can fix it because?
What if it's a hardware issue?
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
14,066
2,554
126
forgot i have a new mobo so im removing old drivers, installing new ones, and the Intel website is currently letting me download the new Arc drivers .. aaat about 10kb/s.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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That's where Steve has the most "eye-opening data". I wonder if spiderman's frames are rendered by the cpu or what? lol

View attachment 114195
The falloff in lows from the 3600 to 2600 is wild; almost 300%. PCIe 3.0 may be a contributing factor.
forgot i have a new mobo so im removing old drivers, installing new ones, and the Intel website is currently letting me download the new Arc drivers .. aaat about 10kb/s.
Try the TPU servers - https://www.techpowerup.com/download/intel-graphics-drivers/
 
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GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
7,478
8,253
136
I saw the Asrock Steel Series B580 and fell in love. For some reason it's 3 slots, and of course my case only supports 2.5 lol. I'm confused why it's 3 slots and has 2 8 pin connectors but it's sure a nice looking card.

Where are you even finding B580's in stock?
 
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