News Intel GPUs - Falcon Shores cancelled

[DavidC1]

From reddit:

Intel drivers use two threads for drawcall submissions, which is an ancient holdover from their igp. I remember having an intel laptop with a igp that couldn't benefit from the hyperthreading on an I3, no matter the resolution or gpu usage.
So you need a processor with 2 super fast cores, or you have to run up against the gpu limit and accept frametime dips.

No surprise. iGPU mentality. Will take years to strip it out.

The problem is never the tech, but the mentality. Their CPU division in particular has the clockspeed plague. Their GPU division has the iGPU plague. The company overall has a money before everything else plague.

 

[DigDog]

ugh ..

today is really not my day uh?

seems stalker 2 will not run on my build of W10 LTSC.

ok then, Wytchfire.

 

[DigDog]

*Witchfire

runs good, but does have the occasional frame drop. I'll tweak it manually tomorrow, because the game defaults to EVERYTHING MAXXXED OUT, Ultra this, Ultra that.

 

[DavidC1]

Drawcall test comparison:
htt ps://imgur.com/gallery/arc-b580-api-overhead-comparison-u3UHMyZ

The tests clearly support the redditor's claim above. The drawcall comparison shows anywhere from 3-6x difference compared to AMD/Nvidia.

It will be GOOD for them if they fix it, but covering up their mistakes or saying it does not exist doesn't help anybody, it actually hurts those that want to buy it but have to go through the hassle.

 

[Saylick]

From reddit:

No surprise. iGPU mentality. Will take years to strip it out.

The problem is never the tech, but the mentality. Their CPU division in particular has the clockspeed plague. Their GPU division has the iGPU plague. The company overall has a money before everything else plague.

“No problem. We’ll just solve that overhead issue using E core spam, and then have marketing put out the claim that Intel GPUs are best paired with Intel CPUs.” - Intel executive, probably

 

[Win2012R2]

The overhead can and will be fixed, I'm certain of it, because it's needed for higher end GPUs like B770 and future generations like Celestial.

This sort of stuff can be pretty hard to fix (certainly quickly), it can easily require total rewrite that isn't trivial and hard to get right.

 

[poke01]

No surprise. iGPU mentality. Will take years to strip it out

huh.. even Apple mobile iGPUs don’t do this.

More like Intel couldn’t be bothered

 

[Win2012R2]

Maybe that mentality carried on to X3000. Why? To sell more CPUs.

As I recollect Intel tried to get consumer game level ray tracing done on multi-core CPUs way before Nvidia - obviously idea was to sell more CPUs, it failed miserably

 

[DavidC1]

huh.. even Apple mobile iGPUs don’t do this.

More like Intel couldn’t be bothered

Yea, this is it. They may think a bit differently now, but it's going against 27 years of that broken mentality. Past actions(or inactions) having future consequences.

This sort of stuff can be pretty hard to fix (certainly quickly), it can easily require total rewrite that isn't trivial and hard to get right.

Actually if we hear Intel's claims and rumors, they've been at it for at least 2 years now.

“No problem. We’ll just solve that overhead issue using E core spam, and then have marketing put out the claim that Intel GPUs are best paired with Intel CPUs.” - Intel executive, probably

Just one issue, their drivers are barely threaded, meaning anything more than 2 cores are useless.

 

[Win2012R2]

Actually if we hear Intel's claims and rumors, they've been at it for at least 2 years now.

Not surprised, it is highly non-trivial to multi-thread such code correctly and that it still remains very quick, debugging elusive edge cases is very hard too.

 

[DavidC1]

Not surprised, it is highly non-trivial to multi-thread such code correctly and that it still remains very quick, debugging elusive edge cases is very hard too.

What the MBA and Finance types do not get is there are things that you have to do that are not so obvious to gain mindshare which turns into brand loyalty and marketshare.

What they are doing with Tom Peterson, what they are doing with simple branding with GPUs, it's all good. Don't abandon it! Think more than 3 months into the future. Some things are only solved with TIME!

-What if they can get the overhead fixed and benefits both Alchemist and Battlemage?
-What if Celestial really does fix lot of issues and is much better?
-What if some unforseen GPU usage comes again and they benefit financially? Missed gaming, crypto mining, AI. No need to buy companies they don't know how to use(Gaudi).
-What if they could use that GPU lead to synergize with their other products?

 

[adroc_thurston]

What the MBA and Finance types do not get

They're not really the problem at Intel (at least product stuff).
Intel is just a very political landscape and some guys have a lot less clout.

 

[Win2012R2]

Intel is just a very political landscape and some guys have a lot less clout.

Which big company isn't?

 

[adroc_thurston]

Which big company isn't?

Intel is special.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

This is what the hobby is all about. This guy doesn't care about no stinking driver overhead -

 

[Hans Gruber]

Intel is on their 2nd generation GPU. Why are so many people expecting perfection on the 2nd generation GPU? You need to give Intel 3 or 4 months of Battlemage driver updates to draw any conclusions. It would be nice to see weekly driver updates from Intel. I will continue watching from the peanut gallery.

 

[poke01]

Intel is on their 2nd generation GPU. Why are so many people expecting perfection on the 2nd generation GPU? You need to give Intel 3 or 4 months of Battlemage driver updates to draw any conclusions. It would be nice to see weekly driver updates from Intel. I will continue watching from the peanut gallery.

Because Nvidia is not this bad in terms of overhead and AMD driver overhead is non-existent.

Providing more VRAM but not delivering on other things is just as bad. This just creates more mindshare issues and for a new entrant that’s not good

 

[Asterox]

It remains unchanged from A series; damned shame. It also appears to continue suffering more than AMD and Nvidia from PCIe 3.0.

He has the same frustrations I have with it. Needing 3rd party tools is unacceptable. It has to be PnP and it's not. r/IntelARC has a fair number of post already, asking questions about why they are having performance issues with it.

If you look at Intel's recommendations or CPU minimum system requirements..............

https://twitter.com/x/status/1875479398494957772

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Steve is right. If you pair it with a 10100 or Ryzen 3100 you are going to have a bad time compared to an AMD card.

 

[511]

That's where Steve has the most "eye-opening data". I wonder if spiderman's frames are rendered by the cpu or what? lol

View attachment 114195

From the data it looks like the drivers needs fewer but faster cores to not tank performance Zen4 vs Zen3X3D clearly shows it

 

[511]

leave it, i'm gonna "benchmark" with something actually worth my time - and, realistically, what we all came here for. STALKER 2 !!
(juuuust as soon as the 150+Gb have finished downloading)

Please don't download it at 10Kb/s otherwise it would be at the time of Big Battlemage launch

Also why are Intel CPUs not tested by HUB 🤣
12100/12400
10600/11600
Imo should be tested as well

 

[DigDog]

i won't lie, it sucks to know that im losing out on a whole chunk of performance due to my CPU; i wasnt expecting a 5600x to be "weak".

is this overhead something that can be feasibly solved via drivers, or is it due to hardware design?

 

[511]

i won't lie, it sucks to know that im losing out on a whole chunk of performance due to my CPU; i wasnt expecting a 5600x to be "weak".

is this overhead something that can be feasibly solved via drivers, or is it due to hardware design?

Only Intel knows

 

[igor_kavinski]

Just one issue, their drivers are barely threaded, meaning anything more than 2 cores are useless.

Ironic since they have expert software engineers specializing in such stuff. Guess they are spread too thin or Pat fired the wrong people. Oopsie.

 

[511]

Definitely or their so called priorities