Intel has been dubbed EVIL

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: taltamir
apoppin, please leave the politics out of the this discussion, I cannot properly reply to your allegation without completely derailing this thread into dealing with your beloved obama and his party of crooks.

But when I said 5 countries I didn't meant 5 countries in europe, i know the EU represents more than 5. I meant japan, south korea, europe, and the USA... which is 4, I don't know why I said 5. (well i do, 5 words were capitalized, but one of them was "south")

the EU is interesting, its supposed to not be a country, but its acting like one, it is dictating rules that overrule the laws of its individual countries, it is the only one printing money, it has eliminated cross border checks for those countries. It is a transition between being one country and being multiple countries.

pot calling the kettle black...

 

[taltamir]

Only if you assume i love the republicans and think there are no crooks there.
Or are you suggesting that I am a crook and an elected official?

But the choice of metaphor seems to indicate you agree that our elected representatives on both sides of the isle are not doing a very good job.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Actually its sad but politics is a hugh part of this. As more people choose to take the government handout policy rather than work. Its all well and fine now . The lazy baztards get a free ride as they stripe enterprize away . To the point only one remedy remains . Complete government control over everthing.

Think about this. If this happens . The hardworkers of today will still be productive in a social future.Fact . It will work for them. But what about todays BUMS! Do they get a free ride in this marvelous overpopulated Eden type world . NO FREAKEN WAY. THEY DIE!!! They are of no value to the whole!

Stop talking politics, there is a forum for that. If you continue, you are going to get a vacation.

Markfw900
Anandtech Moderator

 

[Flipped Gazelle]

Originally posted by: taltamir
Only if you assume i love the republicans and think there are no crooks there.
Or are you suggesting that I am a crook and an elected official?

But the choice of metaphor seems to indicate you agree that our elected representatives on both sides of the isle are not doing a very good job.

If I'm the one you're addressing, I simply meant that your call to "leave the politics out of the discussion," should be heeded by everyone, including you.

Your 3rd sentence is spot-on. :thumbsup:

If I offended you with my "pot... black" statement, I apologize, for that was not my intent.

 

[taltamir]

imagine that by law every person was given a switch (as in, on-off switch) that they connect to their router. if they turn it on they double their current internet speed, but make everyone else be 0.01% slower (including themselves). many will turn it on as they think it really doesn't make a difference, but eventually it will, at some point people will have to turn theirs on to just break even with their speed before that was done, and even then speeds will continue to decline while more and more people turn it on, and some people will remain headstrong and despite seeing massive drops in their speed refuse to use it, they will be "taking one for the team..."

Or imagine that google wrote code that specifically slows down all internet searches for every search that is not preceeded with the code SXAFAFASDAS. And then try to educate people about the workaround to their intentional mishap, and blaming "parasites" who refuse to type out the code.

The only person you CAN blame in such a situation is the legislators and those who vote them into power.

 

[Schmide]

taltamir - I have no idea what point you are making and regardless, it has very little to do with this case.

We need to stop regressing into generalities - Stick to the Intel case and judgment.

Seriously Nemesis 1 this isn't a soapbox for your political and religious views! Get a grip.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: taltamir
apoppin, please leave the politics out of the this discussion, I cannot properly reply to your allegation without completely derailing this thread into dealing with your beloved obama and his party of crooks.

But when I said 5 countries I didn't meant 5 countries in europe, i know the EU represents more than 5. I meant japan, south korea, europe, and the USA... which is 4, I don't know why I said 5. (well i do, 5 words were capitalized, but one of them was "south")

the EU is interesting, its supposed to not be a country, but its acting like one, it is dictating rules that overrule the laws of its individual countries, it is the only one printing money, it has eliminated cross border checks for those countries. It is a transition between being one country and being multiple countries.

Who made you moderator? *You* have been bringing you OWN politics into this discussion. When you get beat up with logic, you cry "unfair"
:roll:

it is impossible to leave politics out of this discussion when it is PART of IT - HAS been part of it for days; and i am at least quoting a reliable source - unlike you who make your own political nonsense up

i rightly pointed out that it is MANY countries who have taken a stand - not just 5 .. and not just third world countries.

There is a *change* coming to US prosecution of these kinds of cases - for 8 years there was NONE .. now it will resume as it was before '02 .. back to normal [not an abnormal RRR freak administration in bed with mega-business]

 

[taltamir]

you chanting slogans doesn't make me "beaten". I try to keep it on the issue, nobody made me moderator but I can still ask that we follow the rules.

You are railing about bush and praising obama and I have yet to say a word to the contrary, the status of intel's actions in 4 countries has little to do with your messiah BO and I would not debate his "change" with you in this thread, as I already do on forums specific to politics and not CPUs and Overclocking.

these investigations take TIME, and they have started years ago during bush's years, the last ram cartel was busted during bush's years, there was no transition from lawlessness into lawfulness that magically occurred when BO took the presidency.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: taltamir
you chanting slogans doesn't make me "beaten". I try to keep it on the issue, nobody made me moderator but I can still ask that we follow the rules.

You are railing about bush and praising obama and I have yet to say a word to the contrary, the status of intel's actions in 4 countries has little to do with your messiah BO and I would not debate his "change" with you in this thread, as I already do on forums specific to politics and not CPUs and Overclocking.

these investigations take TIME, and they have started years ago during bush's years, the last ram cartel was busted during bush's years, there was no transition from lawlessness into lawfulness that magically occurred when BO took the presidency.

And now you are talking politics continually and asking for the rules to be *selectively applied* to those who have the opposing view.

Of course these investigations take time; only the DoJ did NOT follow the Bush doctrine - if you bothered to follow my links. However, only NOW can Intel be successfully prosecuted by the Obama administration.

You are right, it took 8 years to change America and now it will take a few more years to shift it again.

We are talking about Intel; that they face the same thing - or even more severe than in Europe *because* the political situation in the USA has changed

How you can remove politics from this, i cannot understand.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Flipped Gazelle

Originally posted by: taltamir
Only if you assume i love the republicans and think there are no crooks there.
Or are you suggesting that I am a crook and an elected official?

But the choice of metaphor seems to indicate you agree that our elected representatives on both sides of the isle are not doing a very good job.

If I'm the one you're addressing, I simply meant that your call to "leave the politics out of the discussion," should be heeded by everyone, including you.

Your 3rd sentence is spot-on. :thumbsup:

If I offended you with my "pot... black" statement, I apologize, for that was not my intent.

OK . On topic . Were was intel found guility of anything. Not in a COURT of Law . Until intel is found guility in court of LAW. They have broken none. This stuff has to be done by trail . So that testamony is given . There for opening up criminal charges to false unproveable statements. Get on the stand they lie they go to jail. The Big Boys. Don't have to go threw this . Why is that? Put them under the law of Swearing an oath to fact . If they lie same crime as you or I. Talking about this kind of money . The way this thing was handle is not justice. If Intel Did these things , There should be Fine. But testamony most be given under oath or is a show . No real justice. People need to go to jail. If Crime committed. We know Intel was NOT selling below cost . So I want sworn testamony. One question would be to AMD .How many chips could ya do at 130 per month with I fab without 300 wafers. I would rest my whole case on that 1 question up until The new fab was built. Than my next question would be After ya had 2 fabs going why didn't they both stay operating. I would put AMD on trail if I was Intel . Don't defend intel attack. AMD had No 300 wafers and only 1 fab . Up until the new Fab . Attack the numbers intel . In america on trail this will be good. It would be great if on TV .

 

[Martimus]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: Martimus

Originally posted by: Idontcare
Again what do the shareholders, CEO, and employees of today's Intel have to do with the individuals at Intel 7+ years ago who made were involved in making the decision to harm the consumer from 2002-2007?

If you were able to do something illegal that greatly benefitted you, and even after you were caught had no repercussions, don't you think that you would be tempted to do it again?

If you don't enforce the laws, then there isn't much point in having them. Due to our legal system taking so long, these punishments often come long after the crime was committed. But knowing that the punishment will come eventually is more of a deterent than seeing cases where the punishment never came.

yes but the people who commited the crime took the money and LEFT INTEL.
If you comitted a crime and someone else was punished for it, then it is a HUGE incentive to comit crimes again because you see that the justice system is broken.

If they wanted the individuals that did the illegal deeds to suffer the consequences instead of the corporation, they should never have incorporated to protect those individuals. As it is, the individuals mean little in this case.

 

[taltamir]

And now you are talking politics continually and asking for the rules to be *selectively applied* to those who have the opposing view.

No, no i am not, saying those things take time is not debating politics. If I was id be tearing apart obama's stances and pointing at specific instances from his past, as well as providing evidence against the supposed transgressions of bush. And also i'd be discussing specifics about the rest of the crooks in washington.

This is a classic case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyOHJa5Vj5Y

 

[taltamir]

If they wanted the individuals that did the illegal deeds to suffer the consequences instead of the corporation, they should never have incorporated to protect those individuals. As it is, the individuals mean little in this case.

Which is the crux of the problem, corporations should protect individuals from MONETARY LIABILITY in case the company fails, it should NOT protect them from CRIMINAL LIABILITY in case they commit a crime under the company's name.

 

[taltamir]

who is that magical THEY, you specifically said that the purpose of the law is to DETER future crime by punishing the criminals, i point out that they are punishing someone else, and now you are saying that if "they" didn't want someone else to be punished then they shouldn't incorporate?
No, the law is supposed to punish the CRIMINALS to deter future crime, not punish random unrelated individuals "just because"

or are they the higher ups in intel? oh wonderful, because of a choice the supposed criminals do they get off the hook? Can I incorporate a heroin cartel then?

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
OK . On topic . Were was intel found guility of anything. Not in a COURT of Law . Until intel is found guility in court of LAW. They have broken none. This stuff has to be done by trail . So that testamony is given . There for opening up criminal charges to false unproveable statements. Get on the stand they lie they go to jail. The Big Boys. Don't have to go threw this . Why is that? Put them under the law of Swearing an oath to fact . If they lie same crime as you or I. Talking about this kind of money . The way this thing was handle is not justice. If Intel Did these things , There should be Fine. But testamony most be given under oath or is a show . No real justice. People need to go to jail. If Crime committed. We know Intel was NOT selling below cost . So I want sworn testamony. One question would be to AMD .How many chips could ya do at 130 per month with I fab without 300 wafers. I would rest my whole case on that 1 question up until The new fab was built. Than my next question would be After ya had 2 fabs going why didn't they both stay operating. I would put AMD on trail if I was Intel . Don't defend intel attack. AMD had No 300 wafers and only 1 fab . Up until the new Fab . Attack the numbers intel . In america on trail this will be good. It would be great if on TV .

Original - WTF not a court of law. Dude do you make this stuff up?

I guess it was a regulatory body the appeal was the Court of First Instance. So it's like a FTC fine.

 

[SickBeast]

Nemesis1 why do you defend Intel so fervently when they have done so much damage to the industry with their anticompetitive behavior?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Because of Math my friend. In order to have eggs for breakfest ya need chickens.

AMD had 1 fab it wasn't 300 wafer . AMD could sell only the number of wafer starts it could do in 1 month minus defects. Its simple honest straightforward way of seeing AMDs Capacity. As far as intels cost compared to AMds Thats Know brainer AMD choose SOI over Bulk . More expensive. AMD pays intel for every cpu it sells. Amd doesn't have Intel purchasing power . The list is endless as to big vs. small when it comes to margins.

When Senecea took down Green Giant . It wasn't a cooperate genius . It was a lowely tech that got seneceas computer controlled machines to outrun everone elses. Seneceas Margins for those years were sky high while all other were put out of business.

So did senecea do wrong . Or was it me fixing the machines. If there was guilt it would be mine. Sorry I was just doing my job to best of my ability! You know what corn pricies in the market went way down . EVIL ME!

 

[SickBeast]

Yeah you need chickens, but if you have a mad rooster pecking out the eyes of all the chickens, then you have a problem.

Plus, if everyone keeps buying intel stuff then AMD will go down hard. So much for your chicken and egg theory.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I agree with everthing your saying if everthing is =. This is a case Of small taking on big than crying because of margins. Look . If AMD had = capacity as intel I would say your correct . Is what everone is asking intel to do is Act like they are AMD . Thats just insane thinking. Bottom line AMD never had capacity to take market from intel . AMD never had capatiy to gaurantee contract delievers . Intel had all that. Plus 1 ace up its sleeve that was not there doing . A fast growing market . So Intel had the power to leverage anyone without illeagal acts. In 2001 AMD sold every cpu it could make. But they came up way short of market expectations. @002 is 1st year of complaint . Amds orders fail because of suppliers feared AMD would do another 2001. @003 . What year did Intel come with 300 wafers. What years did AMD . AMD had zero chance to compete without 300 wafers . Thats a no brainer. Amd gets new 300 fab built. Now AMD has 2 fabs and a deal with dell . But AMD can't use all the fab space as C2D crushes them . I see Week crying foul when he stepped in to ring with champ . Way under weighted $$$$.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Amd is cutting pricies to sell cpus. Shouldn't intel lower margins and go below AMDs pricies. As long as Intel makes money I don't see why they can't but they can't because all would cry foul . So everyone wants Intel to play exact same game as AMD . With 1 exception . PRICING . Now this isn't even gray . This is black vs. White .


Look I not saying I am seeing this right.

But lets look at coming events. Ok . Intel is releaseing its 2core 4 threaded Cpu soon enough. Look at 8700. Now look at nehalem on 32nm immersion. You can let your imagination run wild on clock speeds. What Happens if Intels 2 core chip spanks AMDS four core chip. Does the world exspect intel to sell a 2 core chip for same or higher price than AMDs 4 core. What happens when atom at 32nm gives AMD low end a beating.

What the hell is intel suppose to do do with this 2 core chip. Price the same as intels 45nm . Oh thanks alot AMD.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Buy the way food for thought . Who is it that doesn't want GF to have X86 license AMD or Intel . It seems Intel wants them to have licinese. AMD looks to be one who wants to hang onto that.

When does GF file its QT loss report. I can't wait to see AMDs share of losses.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Intel is really taking a beating on this around the world. Its hurting them . But I have the perfect ans . To Intels image. Listen up Intel workers.

When Clarky the clown is done. Intel should take its Highend 32nm 2 core put it up against AMDs 4 core run lots of test . Get Me to help. Publicly run these test on expensive commercials . Asking the EU. How it should price its 2 core nehalem after publicly embarrassing AMDs best 4 core. Intel may lose there money but the world will see the lie!!!.

 

[Schmide]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
I agree with everthing your saying if everthing is =. This is a case Of small taking on big than crying because of margins. Look . If AMD had = capacity as intel I would say your correct . Is what everone is asking intel to do is Act like they are AMD . Thats just insane thinking. Bottom line AMD never had capacity to take market from intel . AMD never had capatiy to gaurantee contract delievers . Intel had all that. Plus 1 ace up its sleeve that was not there doing . A fast growing market . So Intel had the power to leverage anyone without illeagal acts. In 2001 AMD sold every cpu it could make. But they came up way short of market expectations. @002 is 1st year of complaint . Amds orders fail because of suppliers feared AMD would do another 2001. @003 . What year did Intel come with 300 wafers. What years did AMD . AMD had zero chance to compete without 300 wafers . Thats a no brainer. Amd gets new 300 fab built. Now AMD has 2 fabs and a deal with dell . But AMD can't use all the fab space as C2D crushes them . I see Week crying foul when he stepped in to ring with champ . Way under weighted $$$$.

If all the above is true, then why were all these exclusive contracts and strong arm tactics necessary?

It's like telling a scam victim they couldn't of been ripped off because they were poor.

Half the time I have no idea what you're saying relative to this case. I see a lot of talk about current hardware, very little about the antitrust issue. As I said before, if you want to talk about Intel's next generation hardware, start a new thread.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Look if anything Intel has always had the silly advantage its always been a 2x advantage . Except when AMD catches up than its the same thing ever time.


Intel makes money because they always have a 2x silly advantage. Until nehalem 2 core. If intels top 2 core beats AMDs top 4 core its a 4x silly advantage. AMD couldn't compete at 2x disadvantage . Intel had 300 wafers way befor AMD. There advantage in pricing was huge. Had Intel not had AMD there to Low price with . Intel would be introuble now for saling at high pricies at the time.

Intel has always had this advantage. This is AMDS problems . Not intel marketing.

 

[taltamir]

intel now has a... 20-30% advantage, not 2x, and at several points it was at a severe disadvantage, like when the X2 was kicking its keister all over all place.