Originally posted by: dmens
^
i was making a statement, not responding to you. don't flatter yourself.
Originally posted by: dmens
Let's hear it for saint apoppin, the moral compass of anandtech. He is backed by the EU anti-trust commission, whose decisions are always just because... well, they're the fucking EU commission! Government bodies always have the moral high ground over evil monopolies (unless they are backed by government).
Everybody should follow his sagely advice to restore fairness to the world. Amen.
Originally posted by: JFAMD
There are a few facts that seem to get lost in this thread:
1. Monopolies are not illegal, but using monopoly power to keep others out of the market is illegal
2. This is not an isolated action, this is the third. Japan, South Korea and then Europe. Intel is 0 for 3. Tens of thousands of documents, hundreds of thousands of hours of work.
3. These investigations have been going on for several years, and Intel has had plenty of opportunity to provide information that would clear them. However, in all cases they have lost.
4. Intel executives have defended their actions by saying "consumers have not been hurt"; notice that they don't seem to be saying the charges against them are not true, just that they perceive no harm done. Like saying "I know I shouldn't have fired the gun in a crowded theater, but look, I didn't hit anyone."
When it happens once, you can question the motivation. When it happens twice, you start to see more. However, the third time, it becomes pretty clear that there is something to it.
Where there is smoke there is fire
Originally posted by: Golgatha
Originally posted by: Zstream
Originally posted by: Golgatha
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
That is a nice way of making some money during a recession
Yes, let's take a good America based company and fine them 15% of their cash reserves. How about Intel just pulls all Intel products from the shelves in the EU instead? While we're at it, let's pull all Microsoft licenses at the same time.
Yes, do illegal things and not get punished. Typical response from majority of people who are clueless on what happened.
No matter what spin you put on it, Intel did some very illegal activities back in the day. I disagree with the EU receiving the money as it should be going back to the consumers or AMD.
I think you mistook my post. I'm also mad that the EU is getting the money. Intel is not faultless and it has been proven time and time again that their past tactics were anti-competitive. What good does it do the situation to pad the EU regulator's bankbook though? It doesn't help the already effected companies in the least. It might make their futures better, but that's assuming the anti-competitive tactics don't run the small fry into the ground before that future comes about.
I would love to see the backlash from EU companies against the EU commission, if all of a sudden they could not use MS or Intel products however.
Originally posted by: taltamir
double jeoperdy... one crime, a rush of countries rushing in for a slice of the pie, each one giving more ridiculously high fines to take while there is still something to take. and keep in mind that handling 30b a year is not the same as 30b a year in profits. They have very high expenses... taxes, factories, employees, etc...
Originally posted by: taltamir
double jeoperdy... one crime, a rush of countries rushing in for a slice of the pie, each one giving more ridiculously high fines to take while there is still something to take. and keep in mind that handling 30b a year is not the same as 30b a year in profits. They have very high expenses... taxes, factories, employees, etc...
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
That is a nice way of making some money during a recession
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: taltamir
double jeoperdy... one crime, a rush of countries rushing in for a slice of the pie, each one giving more ridiculously high fines to take while there is still something to take. and keep in mind that handling 30b a year is not the same as 30b a year in profits. They have very high expenses... taxes, factories, employees, etc...
Reminds me of the rush by the states in the late 90's to pile on the lawsuits of tobacco companies for harming all the citizens.
It was truly simply a money grab, zero moral or ethical motivation by the states to actually end the damages occurring to the citizens.
They just wanted another source of revenue enhancement.
It's kind of embarrassing/disgusting actually if you research the history of the state's arguments against big tobacco versus what the state's actually did with the settlement monies.
Originally posted by: Kuzi
Since Intel was found guilty, and AMD lost sales (money) and market share because of those illegal practices, why doesn't AMD get all or part of the fine? I mean, it was AMD that sued Intel in the first place. AMD was the company that got harmed. This huge fine all going to the EU doesn't make sense to me.
Originally posted by: zerogear
Originally posted by: RaiderJ
Originally posted by: Golgatha
Originally posted by: Zstream
Originally posted by: Golgatha
Originally posted by: PlasmaBomb
That is a nice way of making some money during a recession
Yes, let's take a good America based company and fine them 15% of their cash reserves. How about Intel just pulls all Intel products from the shelves in the EU instead? While we're at it, let's pull all Microsoft licenses at the same time.
Yes, do illegal things and not get punished. Typical response from majority of people who are clueless on what happened.
No matter what spin you put on it, Intel did some very illegal activities back in the day. I disagree with the EU receiving the money as it should be going back to the consumers or AMD.
I think you mistook my post. I'm also mad that the EU is getting the money. Intel is not faultless and it has been proven time and time again that their past tactics were anti-competitive. What good does it do the situation to pad the EU regulator's bankbook though? It doesn't help the already effected companies in the least. It might make their futures better, but that's assuming the anti-competitive tactics don't run the small fry into the ground before that future comes about.
I would love to see the backlash from EU companies against the EU commission, if all of a sudden they could not use MS or Intel products however.
I think the Microsoft situation was a little different. It was about Internet Explorer and/or Windows Media Player being installed? Kinda silly I think - it's really easy to install a competitor's product.
With Intel, if you buy a machine based on their processor, it's not easy to switch to AMD. Hence, the anti-competitive practices on AMD should be dealt with rather harshly.
For the fine, what does it go towards? Some blanket EU bank account?
I've always wondered, if they did remove IE, for example from Windows, how would people get other browsers?
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: taltamir
double jeoperdy... one crime, a rush of countries rushing in for a slice of the pie, each one giving more ridiculously high fines to take while there is still something to take. and keep in mind that handling 30b a year is not the same as 30b a year in profits. They have very high expenses... taxes, factories, employees, etc...
Reminds me of the rush by the states in the late 90's to pile on the lawsuits of tobacco companies for harming all the citizens.
It was truly simply a money grab, zero moral or ethical motivation by the states to actually end the damages occurring to the citizens.
They just wanted another source of revenue enhancement.
It's kind of embarrassing/disgusting actually if you research the history of the state's arguments against big tobacco versus what the state's actually did with the settlement monies.
So .. isn't that beside the point?
Are both intel and tobacco innocent?
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: taltamir
double jeoperdy... one crime, a rush of countries rushing in for a slice of the pie, each one giving more ridiculously high fines to take while there is still something to take. and keep in mind that handling 30b a year is not the same as 30b a year in profits. They have very high expenses... taxes, factories, employees, etc...
Reminds me of the rush by the states in the late 90's to pile on the lawsuits of tobacco companies for harming all the citizens.
It was truly simply a money grab, zero moral or ethical motivation by the states to actually end the damages occurring to the citizens.
They just wanted another source of revenue enhancement.
It's kind of embarrassing/disgusting actually if you research the history of the state's arguments against big tobacco versus what the state's actually did with the settlement monies.
So .. isn't that beside the point?
Are both intel and tobacco innocent?
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: taltamir
double jeoperdy... one crime, a rush of countries rushing in for a slice of the pie, each one giving more ridiculously high fines to take while there is still something to take. and keep in mind that handling 30b a year is not the same as 30b a year in profits. They have very high expenses... taxes, factories, employees, etc...
Reminds me of the rush by the states in the late 90's to pile on the lawsuits of tobacco companies for harming all the citizens.
It was truly simply a money grab, zero moral or ethical motivation by the states to actually end the damages occurring to the citizens.
They just wanted another source of revenue enhancement.
It's kind of embarrassing/disgusting actually if you research the history of the state's arguments against big tobacco versus what the state's actually did with the settlement monies.
Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Originally posted by: bgeh
Originally posted by: aigomorla
Originally posted by: bgeh
aigo: The EU represents 30% of global CPU sales, so you're not too right either http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30717099/
30% vs. 70%
compared to closing a division vs paying 1.45 Billion US dollars.
Which path do you think intel will look at expecially with today's slumming market?
There not gonna pay 1 billion... half that ammount maybe.. but 1.45 Billion, i highly doubt it.
Have you forgotten about Asia? Africa? Latin America? Asia's pretty big too you know......
I may have no figures about the regional marketshare but I'd argue that the EU would be comparable to the US in terms of global chip sales, if not slightly larger.
I would very much like to see Intel give up the EU. I would also like very much to see AMD supply the EU and the rest of the world with present fabs .
I would very much like to see AMD alone in the EU as only supplier . WE all know where those pricies would go . Than the EU would have what It wants. A profitable AMD at expense of tax payer. The EU is a dead stagnit market . With everthing moving east . They have know resorces other than what they steal from Africia. And Chinias about to stop that thanks to Obama. You might say Obama is between a rock and a hard place on this issue. LOL. FREE AFRICIA. FROM Imperalist EU. Its happening . You bloodsuckers are threw.
Originally posted by: dmens
Originally posted by: craftech
If you read my first post you would see that I was referring to the most popular form of news delivery for the US population. The television "news" networks. Those who read online and in print are better informed sometimes, but that isn't the average American.
Comparing the content of high quality networks like the BBC or Al Jazeera television news to American television "news" is like comparing Albert Einstein to Joe the Plumber.
John
Typical, you ignore the fact that the US media offers a vast and diverse set of viewpoints, as opposed to the government regulated and almost monopolized media offerings in Europe. Focusing on the trashy tabloid news networks and saying they constitute the US media is basically saying The Sun represents British media because it is the most popular.
BBC is high quality? Is this the same network whose ombudsman openly admitted has a serious leftist bias issue but is powerless to do anything about it? Or Al Jazzera, which runs a separate Middle East broadcast overrun with racist demagoguery?
The sad thing is people are forced to watch that garbage with no alternative. In the US, people can just change the channel, or buy a better newspaper.
Originally posted by: ShawnD1
Originally posted by: Martimus
I can't imagine either of these things happening. I would like it to happen on the software side, since MS has such a debilitating monopoly that no-one seems able to butt their way into that market, even though it should be an easy market to get into (it doesn't require a lot of starting capital, requires mostly just development costs, and has a very high profit margin; obviously something is not right if MS has no real competition in that field.)
An operating system requires a huge amount of hardware support. Linux has been around for more than 10 years and it still has horrible support for a lot of things.
Originally posted by: taltamir
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: taltamir
double jeoperdy... one crime, a rush of countries rushing in for a slice of the pie, each one giving more ridiculously high fines to take while there is still something to take. and keep in mind that handling 30b a year is not the same as 30b a year in profits. They have very high expenses... taxes, factories, employees, etc...
Reminds me of the rush by the states in the late 90's to pile on the lawsuits of tobacco companies for harming all the citizens.
It was truly simply a money grab, zero moral or ethical motivation by the states to actually end the damages occurring to the citizens.
They just wanted another source of revenue enhancement.
It's kind of embarrassing/disgusting actually if you research the history of the state's arguments against big tobacco versus what the state's actually did with the settlement monies.
this is exactly what is happening again... the victims aren't being helped, the situation isn't made better... take a few patents and require intel to pay some compensation to the companies it specifically hindered
aka, if intel paid dell to not sell AMD components, than intel and dell should pay AMD an estimation of the value of lost sales... because even if you think its not morally wrong it was clearly illegal to do so.
And the ideal way to break the monopoly is to declare all computer hardware patents to last only 3 years (or maybe 2)...
again ,, what the government actually DOES with the fine, is irrelevantNeither are innocent, but to expect our governments to be here to help "us" is a tad naive as well. Elected/appointed officials have one thing on their mind - getting re-elected and re-appointed so their personal cashflow from the system remains uninterrupted. It is to be human after all.
Originally posted by: apoppin
fine or jail .. ?
- a fine serves the purpose - better - IF the Intel board stops their unethical and immoral predatory pattern of behavior
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: apoppin
fine or jail .. ?
- a fine serves the purpose - better - IF the Intel board stops their unethical and immoral predatory pattern of behavior
And what does history tell you regarding the effectiveness of one method versus the other in matters of the situation we are discussing?
Originally posted by: Idontcare
Originally posted by: apoppin
fine or jail .. ?
- a fine serves the purpose - better - IF the Intel board stops their unethical and immoral predatory pattern of behavior
And what does history tell you regarding the effectiveness of one method versus the other in matters of the situation we are discussing?
Originally posted by: apoppin
it is pretty clear that you are brainwashed by your handlers.
- you deny reality
Originally posted by: Martimus
Please refrain from the pseudo political BS being spouted. It is tiresome, useless, and usually reflects poorly on you no matter what stance you take; since it is usually driven by emotion and not logic.
Some members with whom I had respected their opinion have lost that respect due to this one thread and the pointless emotion being spewed. Others I had no opinion on I have learned to ignore here, while the usual suspects continued to spout useless things that I will ignore anyway.
Originally posted by: dmens
i worked on them, and im pure fucking evil lol. better stay away.