Intel has been dubbed EVIL

[Spicedaddy]

I hope it'll make Intel release the i5 sooner

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: Spicedaddy
I hope it'll make Intel release the i5 sooner

They are in an interesting position. i5 would canabalize C2Q sales, which are still in the #1 spot CPU wise for most users.

I think Intel is trying to milk the extremely formidable Core 2 sales before they needlessly launch another product into the market.

32nm is what a bunch of us C2 users are waiting for

 

[konakona]

I agree the fine should have been much, much bigger. At least they are actually doing something about it :thumbsup:

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: konakona
I agree the fine should have been much, much bigger. At least they are actually doing something about it :thumbsup:

In some sense though the punishment is supposed to fit the crime. You don't send potheads to prison for 10yrs, etc.

I have no idea what the basis is for the EU's determination of the magnitude of the fine.

I'm not about to second-guess whether they made an error in judgement, they have a 500+ page decision document they are preparing to make public.

How many among us here are privy to enough details of the situation that we would need 500+ pages in order to document our knowledge on the topic?

Originally posted by: geokilla
I like this fine. I was curious as to why the major OEM manufacturers didn't sell systems equipped with AMD CPUs, such as MGD, Dell, HP etc. Now, we might have found out why they didn't sell systems equipped with AMD CPUs and why Intel deserves this fine.

Personally, I believe North America needs to work harder to prevent company from being monopolies like Microsoft and Intel.

How do you prevent a company from becoming a monopoly

The consumers create the monopoly. Only once a company is a monopoly can it then engage in policies that are deemed as abusive of position of monopoly (i.e. abusing their market power).

Quick, I think Volkswagen has the potential to become a monopoly, customers seem to like their automobiles, let's pass a preventative anti-monopoly law requiring Volkswagen to double their prices and deter would-be customers from becoming actual customers. Whew...that was a close one :laugh: Next up is Starbucks, those unholy caffeinated godless sons of bitches...

Originally posted by: Forumpanda
The reason AMD will not get any of this money is because believe it or not the European public servants are not the errand boys of AMD or any other corporation, it is up to AMD to pay their own lawyers and make their own lawsuit if they believe Intel owes them some form of compensation.

Seems perfectly reasonable considering that if/when AMD extracts money from Intel over this they are not likely to go back and re-hire or compensate in any way the employees that had to be let go (laid off) over the years as a direct result of AMD being shut out of the markets and marketshare they needed to continue to support the employee count they once had.

Any money AMD gets will technically be the property of its shareholders (and creditors).

 

[konakona]

In some sense though the punishment is supposed to fit the crime. You don't send potheads to prison for 10yrs, etc.

I have no idea what the basis is for the EU's determination of the magnitude of the fine.

I'm not about to second-guess whether they made an error in judgement, they have a 500+ page decision document they are preparing to make public.

How many among us here are privy to enough details of the situation that we would need 500+ pages in order to document our knowledge on the topic?

We shouldn't send potheads to prison, period
You are right about our collective lack of information to reach any sort of figure that constitutes a reasonable amount for the fine. What I was getting at was the fine's effectiveness as a deterrent to repeated violations. If it isn't much for intel to pay this amount, wouldn't they do it again if opportunity presents itself again? Excuse my ignorance on the details of intel's financial standing, that was just my impression after skimming through this thread.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: OCguy

Originally posted by: Kuzi
Since Intel was found guilty, and AMD lost sales (money) and market share because of those illegal practices, why doesn't AMD get all or part of the fine? I mean, it was AMD that sued Intel in the first place. AMD was the company that got harmed. This huge fine all going to the EU doesn't make since to me.

AMD harms themselves by putting out inferior products.

intel harms everyone by unfairly keeping AMD from competing
- they are CRIMINALS

hence the hefty fine
:roll:

from our interview with AMD's VP and Chief Marketing officer:

Q: What impact might this have on business in the US and other parts of the world?

A: Nigel Dessau: More and more markets have moved to a position where the consumer has the power to dictate when, where and how much [as that applies] to their goods and services. We are finally seeing that achievement happen in the tech industry as well. MediaMarkt was paid to delay or not carry at all AMD-based PCs that there was no option at all for consumers to purchase at all. This ruling will allow consumers the ability to make their own choices about what they buy rather than allowing one company to dictate what is available.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: konakona
If it isn't much for intel to pay this amount, wouldn't they do it again if opportunity presents itself again?

Absolutely...and should Intel do that and the EU fines them again, who benefits from not having fully convinced Intel to not be a repeat offender?

(connect the dots, take a moment, put it all together....and bingo! I think you got it now...this is simply one monopoly abusing another monopoly for its own gains, taxation by another name)

Originally posted by: apoppin
from our interview with AMD's VP and Chief Marketing officer:

Q: What impact might this have on business in the US and other parts of the world?

A: Nigel Dessau: More and more markets have moved to a position where the consumer has the power to dictate when, where and how much [as that applies] to their goods and services. We are finally seeing that achievement happen in the tech industry as well. MediaMarkt was paid to delay or not carry at all AMD-based PCs that there was no option at all for consumers to purchase at all. This ruling will allow consumers the ability to make their own choices about what they buy rather than allowing one company to dictate what is available.

Apoppin can you give me a link to your website/interview article? If it violates TOS then please pm me the link and I'll post it as 3rd party.

 

[dmens]

this is simply one monopoly abusing another monopoly for its own gains, taxation by another name

bingo... nothing more than a government sanctioned shakedown. only governments are allowed to steal in the name of <fill in the blank>.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: konakona
If it isn't much for intel to pay this amount, wouldn't they do it again if opportunity presents itself again?

Absolutely...and should Intel do that and the EU fines them again, who benefits from not having fully convinced Intel to not be a repeat offender?

(connect the dots, take a moment, put it all together....and bingo! I think you got it now...this is simply one monopoly abusing another monopoly for its own gains, taxation by another name)

Originally posted by: apoppin
from our interview with AMD's VP and Chief Marketing officer:

Q: What impact might this have on business in the US and other parts of the world?

A: Nigel Dessau: More and more markets have moved to a position where the consumer has the power to dictate when, where and how much [as that applies] to their goods and services. We are finally seeing that achievement happen in the tech industry as well. MediaMarkt was paid to delay or not carry at all AMD-based PCs that there was no option at all for consumers to purchase at all. This ruling will allow consumers the ability to make their own choices about what they buy rather than allowing one company to dictate what is available.

Apoppin can you give me a link to your website/interview article? If it violates TOS then please pm me the link and I'll post it as 3rd party.

PM sent

 

[snakeye]

"We believe the decision is wrong and ignores the reality of a highly competitive microprocessor marketplace characterised by constant innovation, improved product performance and lower prices. There has been absolutely zero harm to consumers. Intel will appeal."

http://business.timesonline.co...ogy/article6278193.ece

Well there you have it. Their illegal practice have cause absolutely zero harm to consumers.

 

[Idontcare]

Thanks :beer:

AMD Interview: EU Ruling on Intel

Nigel Dessau, Senior Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer has joined us today to offer some additional insight from AMD?s point of view on how today?s ruling will affect AMD?s business moving forward. Nigel is responsible for AMD?s global marketing, image and campaign strategy.

http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=6744

 

[Leyawiin]

Originally posted by: dmens

this is simply one monopoly abusing another monopoly for its own gains, taxation by another name

bingo... nothing more than a government sanctioned shakedown. only governments are allowed to steal in the name of <fill in the blank>.

Jeez, what do you think Intel would pay attention to when found guilty of predatory marketing practices? Using their clout to force retail customers and OEMs to basically ignore AMD in that market? And most particularly during a period when AMD had the better product?

A harsh scolding? Its a multi-billion dollar market, one of the largest in the world. Intel is a massive multinational.

Hit 'em in the bank account - its the only thing they'd understand. They screwed the European consumer and shut out AMD from markets illegally. That's not competition. They were selling inferior chips at the time and were scrambling to block AMD from making gains by the sheer force of their size and dominance in the market.

All you hear is "wah wah way - socialist big government robbing an American company". They're a pack of arrogant, crooked bastards that got caught. Eff 'em.

 

[faxon]

looks like i'm going to have a ton of questions for AMD's marketing staff at this years AMD/Microsoft Tech Tour. With PH2, Win7, and RV870 all coming up or coming out with better product, it looks like it's shaping up to be a great showcase.

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: Leyawiin
All you hear is "wah wah way - socialist big government robbing an American company". They're a pack of arrogant, crooked bastards that got caught. Eff 'em.

Eff em? Fuck the government. This fine will pass right back to the consumer, which will allow AMD to raise their prices to match. Meanwhile the EU will take their money and piss it away on their own favored monopolies. Total, Airbus, whatever.

That's the problem with anti-monopoly "laws", they are always applied with political bias built right in. There is nothing a government hates more than a monopoly built without their help, because there's no way the government can shake them down. Hence the legislation.

Monopolies should be legal as long as government is not involved in their creation. Most historical monopolies are government built and enforced. Go read it up.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: faxon
looks like i'm going to have a ton of questions for AMD's marketing staff at this years AMD/Microsoft Tech Tour. With PH2, Win7, and RV870 all coming up or coming out with better product, it looks like it's shaping up to be a great showcase.

I want to know when is AMD going to launch their own brand of SSD's? They've surely got the inhouse talent to create the controller tech as well as the reliability models needed.

Spansion is a seperate entity but if Intel can profit from that market then certainly so too can AMD by way of commodity NAND chips.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: Leyawiin
All you hear is "wah wah way - socialist big government robbing an American company". They're a pack of arrogant, crooked bastards that got caught. Eff 'em.

Eff em? Fuck the government. This fine will pass right back to the consumer, which will allow AMD to raise their prices to match. Meanwhile the EU will take their money and piss it away on their own favored monopolies. Total, Airbus, whatever.

That's the problem with anti-monopoly "laws", they are always applied with political bias built right in. There is nothing a government hates more than a monopoly built without their help, because there's no way the government can shake them down. Hence the legislation.

Monopolies should be legal as long as government is not involved in their creation. Most historical monopolies are government built and enforced. Go read it up.

So you think Intel should be rewarded for criminal behavior the same way they have been rewarded for the past 8 years in the USA? Ripping us all off That is why our economy is so screwed up.

Europe can piss away their money ,,, it is a FINE for *criminal behavior*
- you want to reward them by turning a blind eye to this crap?
:|

Money - BIG money, intel understands

and it LOOKS like the same thing will happen to Intel in the USA,
we have a new administration that will agree with European courts

 

[dmens]

Originally posted by: apoppin
So you think Intel should be rewarded for criminal behavior the same way they have been rewarded for the past 8 years in the USA? Ripping us all off That is why our economy is so screwed up.

Europe can piss away their money ,,, it is a FINE for *criminal behavior*
- you want to reward them by turning a blind eye to this crap?
:|

Money - BIG money, intel understands

and it LOOKS like the same thing will happen to Intel in the USA,
we have a new administration that will agree with European courts

now that's really fucked up, blaming the US economic problems on rebate pricing. never mind 10 years of economic malfeasance by the federal reserve, lowering of lending standards by government fiat, and maniacal spending sprees by government at every level from federal to local.

nope, it's rebate pricing. :shocked:

by the way, this so-called "criminal behavior" is considered so by a government institution that selectively applies to persecute such cases based on political concerns. if monopolies are so bad, why do governments preserve so many of them? right, BIG MONEY FOR GOVERNMENT.

nobody is ripping you off except the government. the consumer always had a choice in the CPU market. now all those choices will cost more because of government interference, just like so many other markets. hope you enjoy living in obama nation.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: dmens
This fine will pass right back to the consumer, which will allow AMD to raise their prices to match. Meanwhile the EU will take their money and piss it away on their own favored monopolies. Total, Airbus, whatever.

Reminds me in a lot of ways of what the USA and the auto industry did with the Japanese auto makers in the early 80's.

The auto-quota's resulted in auto prices rising (supply vs demand, and US artificially restricted the supply)...and then the US auto makers raised their prices commensurately just to turn some quick profits on the opportunity rather than hunker down and actually build a domestic market that wanted US cars.

In the end the actions were projected to have cost the US consumers as much as an extra $5B versus what they would have paid for the same products over the same time period had the quotas not been forced onto the market.

The winner? Whomever had their fingers in amongst the fattest pork-projects in Congress at the time.

 

[craftech]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: craftech
If you read my first post you would see that I was referring to the most popular form of news delivery for the US population. The television "news" networks. Those who read online and in print are better informed sometimes, but that isn't the average American.

Comparing the content of high quality networks like the BBC or Al Jazeera television news to American television "news" is like comparing Albert Einstein to Joe the Plumber.

John

Typical, you ignore the fact that the US media offers a vast and diverse set of viewpoints, as opposed to the government regulated and almost monopolized media offerings in Europe. Focusing on the trashy tabloid news networks and saying they constitute the US media is basically saying The Sun represents British media because it is the most popular.

BBC is high quality? Is this the same network whose ombudsman openly admitted has a serious leftist bias issue but is powerless to do anything about it? Or Al Jazzera, which runs a separate Middle East broadcast overrun with racist demagoguery?

The sad thing is people are forced to watch that garbage with no alternative. In the US, people can just change the channel, or buy a better newspaper.

Well at least this time you were able to respond using words over four letters.

Thank you for that.

We do not have a vast and diverse set of viewpoints in the US thanks to media consolidation that began with Ronald Reagan who realized that his party would benefit from having media consolidated into the hands of a few. Currently five corporations control it all.

Focusing on "trashy tabloid news networks and saying they constitute the US media" is not what I said. I said that is where most Americans get their news so when they don't focus on real news events or lie about them it means the majority of the electorate is misinformed about things that affect their lives. Americans are getting their "news" from CNN, FOX, NBC (MSNBC), CBS, and ABC owned and run by large corporations like Intel and hell bent on distorting the news to favor anything and anyone that helps the profits of large corporations like themselves. Reagan won. That is why the news media changed his legacy after he died into something he wasn't. He is the media's hero that turned them into the giant misinformation mills they are today while they repeat over and over again to an unwitting population that they are somehow "liberal" and that the public repeats it back just like Pavlov's dogs.

That said, Europe has no such problem. They have a widely diverse set of radio, television, and print media independently run much like they were run here before the Reagan perversion. And in terms of Al Jazeera TV being "Racist" as you put it, that is another example of US media brainwashing.

Take a look:

http://english.aljazeera.net/

You also said:

BBC is high quality? Is this the same network whose ombudsman openly admitted has a serious leftist bias issue but is powerless to do anything about it?


I need a link for that and also an intelligent explanation of how the BBC is run as a single dictatorship devoid of journalistic independence amongst the thousands of people who work for them.

Links please for those two misstatements.

John

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: dmens

Originally posted by: apoppin
So you think Intel should be rewarded for criminal behavior the same way they have been rewarded for the past 8 years in the USA? Ripping us all off That is why our economy is so screwed up.

Europe can piss away their money ,,, it is a FINE for *criminal behavior*
- you want to reward them by turning a blind eye to this crap?
:|

Money - BIG money, intel understands

and it LOOKS like the same thing will happen to Intel in the USA,
we have a new administration that will agree with European courts

now that's really fucked up, blaming the US economic problems on rebate pricing. never mind 10 years of economic malfeasance by the federal reserve, lowering of lending standards by government fiat, and maniacal spending sprees by government at every level from federal to local.

nope, it's rebate pricing. :shocked:

by the way, this so-called "criminal behavior" is considered so by a government institution that selectively applies to persecute such cases based on political concerns. if monopolies are so bad, why do governments preserve so many of them? right, BIG MONEY FOR GOVERNMENT.

nobody is ripping you off except the government. the consumer always had a choice in the CPU market. now all those choices will cost more because of government interference, just like so many other markets. hope you enjoy living in obama nation.

You are being silly. P&N is that way -------------->

That is not my argument and i am not replying to strawman BS about "rebates" :|
:roll:

intel will get a 4th judgment against them; in a US court .. think they will figure it out? Their fans never will

 

[lopri]

I'd like to read the actual script of the opinion. Is it published anywhere yet?

 

[Markfw]

Listen guys, this thread is getting out of hand. If you can't discuss this normally, and sanely, I will move it to P&N or lock it.

This is as a MOD !!

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: lopri
I'd like to read the actual script of the opinion. Is it published anywhere yet?

Not yet, but will be published as soon as the EU commission sanitizes it of all competitive sensitive info (whatever that entails).

 

[lopri]

Just saw the blog post by Ryan. It's on the front page.

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=596

Intel has already said that they are going to appeal the fine, and that it ?ignores the reality of a highly competitive microprocessor market.? Notably, they aren?t appealing the facts, but rather the conclusion (that it was harmful to consumers) and the fine. It?s likely that any appeal will take just as long as the initial examination, so it?s unlikely that this will be over before 2011, if not later.

Can't say much without reading the actual opinion of the court (and dissent if there is any) but the above quoted is quite telling.

 

[iCyborg]

1,5 years ago Microsoft lost a law-case against Alcatel-Lucent and was supposed to pay about the same amount as here (~$1,5b). They appealed and the verdict was dismissed, and the only ones who made some money were the lawyers. I'm kinda hoping this won't be the case here :evil:

Yeah, EU would get the money and consumers wouldn't see any direct and immediate benefit. But if this will make AMD more competitive on a long term, then it's a win for the consumers.

And with all the layoffs and expense cuttings, $1.5b isn't pocket change for anyone these days, even Intel. Though it will be some time before EU sees the money...