Intel has been reduced to the follower

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: drag
Intel's ia32e isn't worth it because it lacks the security features that AMD has.

*sigh*

Link 1
Link 2

Originally posted by: drag
32bit Intel offerings are not worth looking at anymore now we have decent 64bit offerings. The reason for me isn't speed, but it's memory. Memory is rising in price lately, but that's not a big deal. It'll get cheaper eventually.. In a few years 1gig of ram will be mimimal amount needed and 64bit just allows for much more upgradability.

So... In a "few years" you'll still be using the cpu that you are using today? Well, even further off than that. 32bit systems can utilize up to 4gb of RAM... How long until we find a use for more than that? And how long until is is financially feasible?

Originally posted by: drag
Palladium is a waste of effort.

The fact of the matter is that you don't really know what Palladium is. All that you are going off of, is speculation from unreliable sources. (If you know of any reliable information, I'd love to read it. I've been looking for a long time, and have come up empty.

Just like the IA32e comment above... There is a lot of misinformation spread every day. Don't believe everything you read, especially when it's speculation about a product that hasn't been released.

 

[Accord99]

Originally posted by: drag
32bit Intel offerings are not worth looking at anymore now we have decent 64bit offerings. The reason for me isn't speed, but it's memory. Memory is rising in price lately, but that's not a big deal. It'll get cheaper eventually.. In a few years 1gig of ram will be mimimal amount needed and 64bit just allows for much more upgradability.

The problem here is that unless you buy the FX/Opteron, the current S745 motherboards at best supports only 3GB of RAM and more likely, only 2GB. The dual channel P4 motherboards support up to 4GB.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
When one product is missing a vital piece of the architecture (NX bit), it is always worse than something that has that vital piece.

Am I wrong to presume that you read the rest of that other thread, where we discussed whether or not Intel will be using that feature? If you didn't see it, take note that both gsellis and I provided links stating that Prescott does have the ability to prevent buffer overflows.

I checked it a few times and there were no updates then. I'll definitely take a look at it.

And remember, I did say I'll even consider buying one of the chips if the NX bit is present.

But Palladium is pretty much the same thing. Some paranoid people post unfounded/unconfirmed speculation, and many readers just run with it. Whether or not the information is accurate, is irrelevant.

No, I don't know anything more about Palladium than anyone else here. But my point is, wait for the facts before drawing definite conclusions.

*sigh* If the facts were out there we wouldn't have to speculate. It is the fault of the vendors for not releasing information. So we take what we can get, draw logical conclusions, and make sure people are ready for it. Simple as that. Until vendors start releasing good information, what else can we do? Wait until something has infested our machines before crying foul?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: justly

Notice how VITAL security is right now?

I?m not arguing that it is not needed, or that it is not a good feature, just that I wouldn?t call it VITAL.

And I disagree. security > *.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
*sigh* If the facts were out there we wouldn't have to speculate. It is the fault of the vendors for not releasing information. So we take what we can get, draw logical conclusions, and make sure people are ready for it. Simple as that. Until vendors start releasing good information, what else can we do? Wait until something has infested our machines before crying foul?

You'll get the facts once they are finalized. Palladium is still a few years out.

Also, I see you only focusing on the negative... Can't you see the HUGE security benefits of Palladium, LaGrande Technology, and the like? Isn't it possible that online security will be exponentially better with these measures?

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Link 1
Link 2

XD? Hopefully there is enough documentation out there on this so that open source and free software projects can take advantage of it.

Might be interesting to find out the differences between XD and NX.

So... In a "few years" you'll still be using the cpu that you are using today? Well, even further off than that.

I have a sparc I still use at home. A sparcstation 10 at 36mhz and a dual sparcserver 20 I plan on using soon.

The fact of the matter is that you don't really know what Palladium is. All that you are going off of, is speculation from unreliable sources. (If you know of any reliable information, I'd love to read it. I've been looking for a long time, and have come up empty.

There have been plenty of good sources for information out there on DRM in general. Best to prepare for it now.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
*sigh* If the facts were out there we wouldn't have to speculate. It is the fault of the vendors for not releasing information. So we take what we can get, draw logical conclusions, and make sure people are ready for it. Simple as that. Until vendors start releasing good information, what else can we do? Wait until something has infested our machines before crying foul?

You'll get the facts once they are finalized. Palladium is still a few years out.

Until then we shut up, get in line, and salute? Screw that.

Also, I see you only focusing on the negative... Can't you see the HUGE security benefits of Palladium, LaGrande Technology, and the like? Isn't it possible that online security will be exponentially better with these measures?

Yes, but with the track records of the various companies involved so far, I have little hopes for it. Like I said, I think it could be good for some people out there. But not me.

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
*sigh* If the facts were out there we wouldn't have to speculate. It is the fault of the vendors for not releasing information. So we take what we can get, draw logical conclusions, and make sure people are ready for it. Simple as that. Until vendors start releasing good information, what else can we do? Wait until something has infested our machines before crying foul?

You'll get the facts once they are finalized. Palladium is still a few years out.

Until then we shut up, get in line, and salute? Screw that.

Also, I see you only focusing on the negative... Can't you see the HUGE security benefits of Palladium, LaGrande Technology, and the like? Isn't it possible that online security will be exponentially better with these measures?

Yes, but with the track records of the various companies involved so far, I have little hopes for it. Like I said, I think it could be good for some people out there. But not me.

"Shut up, get in line, and salute"??? Spread paranoid misinformation? Are those the only options? Seriously... Isn't there some middle ground?

At any rate, this has gotten pretty silly. I've made my point. You decide for yourself if you want to live in paranoia and embrace misinformation... Or keep and open mind and search for the TRUTH. (But then again, facts aren't nearly as fun as conspiracy stories. )

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
*sigh* If the facts were out there we wouldn't have to speculate. It is the fault of the vendors for not releasing information. So we take what we can get, draw logical conclusions, and make sure people are ready for it. Simple as that. Until vendors start releasing good information, what else can we do? Wait until something has infested our machines before crying foul?

You'll get the facts once they are finalized. Palladium is still a few years out.

Until then we shut up, get in line, and salute? Screw that.

Also, I see you only focusing on the negative... Can't you see the HUGE security benefits of Palladium, LaGrande Technology, and the like? Isn't it possible that online security will be exponentially better with these measures?

Yes, but with the track records of the various companies involved so far, I have little hopes for it. Like I said, I think it could be good for some people out there. But not me.

"Shut up, get in line, and salute"??? Spread paranoid misinformation? Are those the only options? Seriously... Isn't there some middle ground?

Yes, comanies can release information about their products. duh.

At any rate, this has gotten pretty silly. I've made my point. You decide for yourself if you want to live in paranoia and embrace misinformation... Or keep and open mind and search for the TRUTH. (But then again, facts aren't nearly as fun as conspiracy stories. )

Please. Give me a break. Yes, I wear a tinfoil hat, I'll admit it. But we have to work with publicly available information. You can draw conclusions based on the information out there, or you can sit back and wait. I'd rather be ready for something than be caught unawares. Just because you work for a company that is all about keeping things quiet and out of the public eye, doesn't mean we should all just sit back and put our faith in corporations to take care of us.

It isn't misinformation until the company provides better information. Until that information is released WE SPECULATE. It's ridiculous to think people should sit back and shut up.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: Wingznut

Originally posted by: drag
Intel's ia32e isn't worth it because it lacks the security features that AMD has.

*sigh*

Link 1
Link 2

I am curious as to why they didn't have it on the pre-production samples.

Anyways, good for intel.

Originally posted by: drag
32bit Intel offerings are not worth looking at anymore now we have decent 64bit offerings. The reason for me isn't speed, but it's memory. Memory is rising in price lately, but that's not a big deal. It'll get cheaper eventually.. In a few years 1gig of ram will be mimimal amount needed and 64bit just allows for much more upgradability.

So... In a "few years" you'll still be using the cpu that you are using today? Well, even further off than that. 32bit systems can utilize up to 4gb of RAM... How long until we find a use for more than that? And how long until is is financially feasible?

Hmm... I have a 200mhz machine that gets used everyday, and 700-800mhz machine with a gig or so of ram is plenty adiquate to run any software that is around today at a acceptable speed, given a nice harddrive, too.

And I just got a new 800mhz form my parents or so machine a while ago that I am going to use to serve my home folder from, and run my ftp/ssh server from. Right now I am using my desktop machine for this, but power consumption has become a big issue.

So yes, I probably will run at least the motherboard and ram, usually I upgrade them to the newest cpu the machine can support and use that for a while before I go out and buy a replacement for it. So it's not just the cpu, it's the entire platform.

Anyways if I was to go out and buy 64bit today it would be a opteron board and not a althon64 setup, but I recently put together a computer a few months ago and that is going to be my desktop for another year or 2.

I use a gig today, I want more but prices arent' that hot right now. Financially feasable? Next year or so maybe a year + six months considuring current prices.

Originally posted by: drag
Palladium is a waste of effort.

The fact of the matter is that you don't really know what Palladium is. All that you are going off of, is speculation from unreliable sources. (If you know of any reliable information, I'd love to read it. I've been looking for a long time, and have come up empty.

Just like the IA32e comment above... There is a lot of misinformation spread every day. Don't believe everything you read, especially when it's speculation about a product that hasn't been released.

What is so wonderfull about Palladium? How is something like that going to benifit me personally?

To me its about as welcome as regional protection sceme built into my DVD drive. (Which is not appreciated in any way shape or form, btw)

To me it seems just a way to establish another system of control (of my computer for other people's benifit).

 

[n0cmonkey]

This is all according to the "misinformation" I have read on palladium, and a few years ago (01, 02?) I read everything I could find.

Originally posted by: dragWhat is so wonderfull about Palladium? How is something like that going to benifit me personally?

It may not be useful to you, but it has the potential to do some good. The DVD-like features will suck, but they'll hopefully make the MPAA and RIAA happy so they stop bugging us (by us I mean the people that think they have outlived their time and look elsewhere for quality entertainment). It can, potentially, stop any program that has not been blessed by Microsoft. Viruses, worms, trojans, etc. (ect is a pet peeve for anyone that doesn't know how to spell etc.) can all be stopped in their tracks. But so can that neat new FOSS program you downloaded.

Palladium can supposedly be turned off. So when you don't want to watch "Horrible Movie 14! (Starring that bad actress we only care about because of her "huge tracts of land!") you can flip the switch and programX won't run, but you can watch the movie. And when you want to use programX, you switch it off.

Of course, you can't open this technology, because that invites change. And if things get changed, palladium breaks. It's a common problem with DRM. If your system isn't approved, it won't work. So if a Linux distribution (Sony Linux for your playstation5.1) incorporates the necessary DRM, it cannot be modified by the end user. :Q

To me its about as welcome as regional protection sceme built into my DVD drive. (Which is not appreciated in any way shape or form, btw)

Isn't this like a non-issue these days?

To me it seems just a way to establish another system of control (of my computer for other people's benifit).

Only if you follow the misinformation and not Wingznut's real information. You can find it, can't you?

 

[Tango57]

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
AMD does need to advertise. I've never seen an AMD commercial.

man they do need to start advertising IMO. i've never seen one either. maybe they can start up a "green man group"??

Originally posted by: txxxx
Intel make profit - lots of it. Like they care who they follow.

i agree, and here's how AMD faired with Intel in 2003.

Intel
2003 Total
Revenue - $30.1 billion
Net Profit - $5.6 billion

AMD
AMD 2003 Total
Revenue - $3.5 billion
Net Loss - $274 million

these figures were taken from both companies' websites' press archives. AMD has repeatedly lost millions of dollars in income over the past 3 years. however AMD's revenue for Q1 surpassed the market's expectations due to strong sales so far this year. Q1 revenue for AMD was $1.26 billion vs. Intel's Q1 revenue of $8.1 billion.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
This is all according to the "misinformation" I have read on palladium, and a few years ago (01, 02?) I read everything I could find.

Originally posted by: dragWhat is so wonderfull about Palladium? How is something like that going to benifit me personally?

It may not be useful to you, but it has the potential to do some good. The DVD-like features will suck, but they'll hopefully make the MPAA and RIAA happy so they stop bugging us (by us I mean the people that think they have outlived their time and look elsewhere for quality entertainment). It can, potentially, stop any program that has not been blessed by Microsoft. Viruses, worms, trojans, etc. (ect is a pet peeve for anyone that doesn't know how to spell etc.) can all be stopped in their tracks. But so can that neat new FOSS program you downloaded.

Palladium can supposedly be turned off. So when you don't want to watch "Horrible Movie 14! (Starring that bad actress we only care about because of her "huge tracts of land!") you can flip the switch and programX won't run, but you can watch the movie. And when you want to use programX, you switch it off.

Of course, you can't open this technology, because that invites change. And if things get changed, palladium breaks. It's a common problem with DRM. If your system isn't approved, it won't work. So if a Linux distribution (Sony Linux for your playstation5.1) incorporates the necessary DRM, it cannot be modified by the end user. :Q

To me its about as welcome as regional protection sceme built into my DVD drive. (Which is not appreciated in any way shape or form, btw)

Isn't this like a non-issue these days?

To me it seems just a way to establish another system of control (of my computer for other people's benifit).

Only if you follow the misinformation and not Wingznut's real information. You can find it, can't you?

Well I can see some real benifit now that I think about it.

Mostly for stuff like storing financial information or something like that. But even then the real benifits of tying your stuff into your hardware isn't realy big compared to other stuff you can do.

 

[n0cmonkey]

Originally posted by: drag

Originally posted by: n0cmonkey
This is all according to the "misinformation" I have read on palladium, and a few years ago (01, 02?) I read everything I could find.

Originally posted by: dragWhat is so wonderfull about Palladium? How is something like that going to benifit me personally?

It may not be useful to you, but it has the potential to do some good. The DVD-like features will suck, but they'll hopefully make the MPAA and RIAA happy so they stop bugging us (by us I mean the people that think they have outlived their time and look elsewhere for quality entertainment). It can, potentially, stop any program that has not been blessed by Microsoft. Viruses, worms, trojans, etc. (ect is a pet peeve for anyone that doesn't know how to spell etc.) can all be stopped in their tracks. But so can that neat new FOSS program you downloaded.

Palladium can supposedly be turned off. So when you don't want to watch "Horrible Movie 14! (Starring that bad actress we only care about because of her "huge tracts of land!") you can flip the switch and programX won't run, but you can watch the movie. And when you want to use programX, you switch it off.

Of course, you can't open this technology, because that invites change. And if things get changed, palladium breaks. It's a common problem with DRM. If your system isn't approved, it won't work. So if a Linux distribution (Sony Linux for your playstation5.1) incorporates the necessary DRM, it cannot be modified by the end user. :Q

To me its about as welcome as regional protection sceme built into my DVD drive. (Which is not appreciated in any way shape or form, btw)

Isn't this like a non-issue these days?

To me it seems just a way to establish another system of control (of my computer for other people's benifit).

Only if you follow the misinformation and not Wingznut's real information. You can find it, can't you?

Well I can see some real benifit now that I think about it.

Mostly for stuff like storing financial information or something like that. But even then the real benifits of tying your stuff into your hardware isn't realy big compared to other stuff you can do.

Good encryption can take care of that pretty well.

 

[drag]

Ya, I figured out what I would want to do if I decided to be stupid enough to store important crap on the harddrive of a running computer.

I would have a keycard. A usb-based drive thingi that I carried around that would have some horrendous privat key that I would use for most everything.

Plug that into the port, open my loopback encrypted filesystem and check out what I needed to know and then log off and yank out the usb key and that would be that. I'd just carry it around with me and thats. What I'd do.

That way even if some a-hole compromised my machine and logged in as me they still couldn't veiw my secret information.

Unlike, of course, if the information was keyed to my machine. If it was keyed to the machine then they couldn't just copy the file away to view it, but if they got that far then it would be easy tell the machine that they are me and give themselves rights to view it based on their own hardware key.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: Tango57

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
AMD does need to advertise. I've never seen an AMD commercial.

man they do need to start advertising IMO. i've never seen one either. maybe they can start up a "green man group"??

Originally posted by: txxxx
Intel make profit - lots of it. Like they care who they follow.

i agree, and here's how AMD faired with Intel in 2003.

Intel
2003 Total
Revenue - $30.1 billion
Net Profit - $5.6 billion

AMD
AMD 2003 Total
Revenue - $3.5 billion
Net Loss - $274 million

these figures were taken from both companies' websites' press archives. AMD has repeatedly lost millions of dollars in income over the past 3 years. however AMD's revenue for Q1 surpassed the market's expectations due to strong sales so far this year. Q1 revenue for AMD was $1.26 billion vs. Intel's Q1 revenue of $8.1 billion.

If you want a good place to find financial information the best place I've found is yahoo financials.

amd annual financial results
Intel's

stock market comparision. The stock market is telling, because people don't invest in short term growth unless their morons. People are expecting returns on investments 7-10 years out, and that's based on percentages, not anual income numbers per say. Both AMD and intel are tied together in people's perspectives. Also don't forget that losing money isn't bad as long as it's gaining them, and so far they have had a good job at gaining more market share.

AMD could make a profit if it wanted to, but that would mean that they would have to cut back R&D, and that's not cool for long term survival.

AMD is doing decently in desktop sales, but the big money is in big iron and servers. Intel is doing uber-wonderfull in low-end servers, but intanium is having a hard time in the realy expensive stuff.

Intel is also increasingly dominate in mobile sales, the xscale and pentium M come to mind, and that is were the future is, pretty soon mobile stuff will outstrip desktop sales if the current trends continue. AMD could be in big trouble if that happens and they haven't made inroads.

Intel is definately not going anywere.

 

[Zebo]

AMD has the best bang for the buck who is'nt a fan boy? Both sides win. Intel is FORCED to charge market rates instead of monoploy rates for thier chips and AMD still grows and gives lots of sub $100 happy users.
Intel users get badass chips for $180. Sweet!!!

I do take exception to the falsehood about the big companies should be more inovative. Quite the opposite has always happened if you're a student of business history. Any large bohemoth like Intel is slow to innovate and change. The stuctural nature of such companies simply prevent it. Micorsoft is the same where they now buy tech and apps fom small developers and generally fail at thier internal endevors (MSN/XBOX) surving on thier bread and butter. Even Intel and Mirosoft were small businesses at one time who ran rings around bohemoths like IBM growing to put them to shame today.

 

[biostud]

AFAIK both AMD and Intel earns lots of money on flash ram and intel also make chipsets, specially for moble computers, so they're not just CPU makers.

The first company to bring me a dualcore CPU for max $400 will get my vote

ATM it does seem that AMD has the technolgy lead in desktops and servers below Itanium range, but for that to turn into profit the market has to believe in AMD as well. We also need the software, before it really matters, and that is a big setback for AMD. In the mobile market Intel 0wnz0rs with thier Pentium-M, I would really like to see a AMD based notebook with same amount of battery life.

 

[drag]

Originally posted by: Zebo
AMD has the best bang for the buck who is'nt a fan boy? Both sides win. Intel is FORCED to charge market rates instead of monoploy rates for thier chips and AMD still grows and gives lots of sub $100 happy users.
Intel users get badass chips for $180. Sweet!!!

what are you talking about?

I do take exception to the falsehood about the big companies should be more inovative.

who said that? Lots of big companies are innovative, lots of small ones are, too. And lots of both are not innovative. It depends much more on how well they are run and what the priorities are.

Quite the opposite has always happened if you're a student of business history. Any large bohemoth like Intel is slow to innovate and change.

Sometimes. Lots of times big guys can afford to change because they can absorbe costs that would drive smaller companies out of business. On the other hand lots of small guys can react quickly and gain ground.

There is no hard and fast rule were big companies do this and small companies do that. Each business needs to be looked at on a one on one basis.

The stuctural nature of such companies simply prevent it. Micorsoft is the same where they now buy tech and apps fom small developers and generally fail at thier internal endevors (MSN/XBOX) surving on thier bread and butter. Even Intel and Mirosoft were small businesses at one time who ran rings around bohemoths like IBM growing to put them to shame today.

I don't realy know what "putting them to shame" is. IBM is as big as it always has been, MS hasn't taken anything away from companies like IBM, Sun, or other classical "big iron" companies, it just grew into a seperate new market that the others were ignoring.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: Tango57

Originally posted by: Chaotic42
AMD does need to advertise. I've never seen an AMD commercial.

man they do need to start advertising IMO. i've never seen one either. maybe they can start up a "green man group"??

Originally posted by: txxxx
Intel make profit - lots of it. Like they care who they follow.

i agree, and here's how AMD faired with Intel in 2003.

Intel
2003 Total
Revenue - $30.1 billion
Net Profit - $5.6 billion

AMD
AMD 2003 Total
Revenue - $3.5 billion
Net Loss - $274 million

these figures were taken from both companies' websites' press archives. AMD has repeatedly lost millions of dollars in income over the past 3 years. however AMD's revenue for Q1 surpassed the market's expectations due to strong sales so far this year. Q1 revenue for AMD was $1.26 billion vs. Intel's Q1 revenue of $8.1 billion.

That just shows Intel rule over Amd as a company and they got nothing to fear despite the crap celerons/hot underperforming prescotts/high prices they still manage to own Amd in profits ahaha

 

[tart666]

That just shows Intel rule over Amd as a company and they got nothing to fear despite the crap celerons/hot underperforming prescotts/high prices they still manage to own Amd in profits ahaha

i wouldn't be so sure anymore... Analysis of Intel's profits usually shows they ONLY make profit on the Xeon line... while breaking even / losing money on P4/Cel lines.

Now AMD has a reasonable Xeon competitor, the profit situation should be a much closer match

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: tart666

That just shows Intel rule over Amd as a company and they got nothing to fear despite the crap celerons/hot underperforming prescotts/high prices they still manage to own Amd in profits ahaha

i wouldn't be so sure anymore... Analysis of Intel's profits usually shows they ONLY make profit on the Xeon line... while breaking even / losing money on P4/Cel lines.

Now AMD has a reasonable Xeon competitor, the profit situation should be a much closer match

Only the xeons? They have the worlds highest selling processor the P4 trailed by the celeron as the worlds 2nd, they must make a large profit from that as with most things it costs pittence to produce them. Where did you see these intel profit figures?

 

[Tango57]

yeah, it's nice to see AMD moving up a bit now. they definitely have tough competition against Intel but it's true, AMD is starting to make profits across all their product lines especially from their flash ram division whereas Intel is struggling with some of their platform processors.

 

[tart666]

Originally posted by: Soviet

Originally posted by: tart666

That just shows Intel rule over Amd as a company and they got nothing to fear despite the crap celerons/hot underperforming prescotts/high prices they still manage to own Amd in profits ahaha

i wouldn't be so sure anymore... Analysis of Intel's profits usually shows they ONLY make profit on the Xeon line... while breaking even / losing money on P4/Cel lines.

Now AMD has a reasonable Xeon competitor, the profit situation should be a much closer match

Only the xeons? They have the worlds highest selling processor the P4 trailed by the celeron as the worlds 2nd, they must make a large profit from that as with most things it costs pittence to produce them. Where did you see these intel profit figures?

some research company, can't remember now... They said ONLY the server section of the Intel product line was contributing to profits... Which makes sense, Intel has been adjusting P4/Celery pricing at will to keep AMD from making a profit, and overcharging for the Xeons for years

Now Opterons are still in the thousands on volume, when that picks up, AMD should making a profit too

 

[Wingznut]

Originally posted by: tart666

Originally posted by: Soviet

Originally posted by: tart666

That just shows Intel rule over Amd as a company and they got nothing to fear despite the crap celerons/hot underperforming prescotts/high prices they still manage to own Amd in profits ahaha

i wouldn't be so sure anymore... Analysis of Intel's profits usually shows they ONLY make profit on the Xeon line... while breaking even / losing money on P4/Cel lines.

Now AMD has a reasonable Xeon competitor, the profit situation should be a much closer match

Only the xeons? They have the worlds highest selling processor the P4 trailed by the celeron as the worlds 2nd, they must make a large profit from that as with most things it costs pittence to produce them. Where did you see these intel profit figures?

some research company, can't remember now... They said ONLY the server section of the Intel product line was contributing to profits... Which makes sense, Intel has been adjusting P4/Celery pricing at will to keep AMD from making a profit, and overcharging for the Xeons for years

Now Opterons are still in the thousands on volume, when that picks up, AMD should making a profit too

So, you're saying that their $5.6 billion of net profit was from Xeons only? Nah...