Intel Haswell 2014 "Refresh" 1150 Socket

[ttechf]

Hi, I have a question pertaining to the Intel Haswell line.

Will the 2014 "refresh" as they are calling it still be compatible with the 1150 socket. I ask because if I can get away with an i3 for now for the current 2013 Haswell and upgrade to an i7 for the refresh 2014 Haswell, thats what I would like to do OR is the 1150 socket going to be phased out quickly?


Anyone know or can shed some light on this? Thank you.

 

[Brahmzy]

Why bother. There will probably be a whole new line of 1150 motherboards that come out (if 1150 does survive). I say wait or go all-out 4770K. I like my 4770K.

 

[blackened23]

Hi, I have a question pertaining to the Intel Haswell line.

Will the 2014 "refresh" as they are calling it still be compatible with the 1150 socket. I ask because if I can get away with an i3 for now for the current 2013 Haswell and upgrade to an i7 for the refresh 2014 Haswell, thats what I would like to do OR is the 1150 socket going to be phased out quickly?


Anyone know or can shed some light on this? Thank you.

Nobody knows. First, Haswell "refresh" makes zero sense unless it is released SOON, as Broadwell-K is being released 2H 2014. As things stand, many roadmaps point to Haswell refresh overlapping this time frame which is quite stupid from a product stack perspective. Essentially, things may become more clear into early next year. Some rumors have indicated that Haswell's FIVR will be removed from Haswell refresh and put back on the motherboard for non BGA SKU's. If that HAPPENS, then it will require a new socket from what i've read.

It's all confusing and nobody is 100% certain yet. That said, if you want Haswell go ahead and get it. It is the best mainstream CPU you can buy by FAR and it will last you well past the release of the Haswell refresh - It's not like Haswell "refresh" will be lightyears better or anything like that, except maybe in terms of power consumption.

 

[Lonyo]

Sockets are irrelevant. What matters is chipset support.
If the same chipset works, then typically it's meant the same socket. If the chipset doesn't work, it doesn't matter if it's the same socket or not.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Haswell Refresh seems to be a platform refresh only, not CPU.

 

[Wall Street]

Nobody knows. First, Haswell "refresh" makes zero sense unless it is released SOON, as Broadwell-K is being released 2H 2014. As things stand, many roadmaps point to Haswell refresh overlapping this time frame which is quite stupid from a product stack perspective. Essentially, things may become more clear into early next year. Some rumors have indicated that Haswell's FIVR will be removed from Haswell refresh and put back on the motherboard for non BGA SKU's. If that HAPPENS, then it will require a new socket from what i've read.

Keep in mind that 4 core 40 nm Nehalem was the desktop performance processor when 32 nm Westmere chips were used in the 2 core mobile and 6 core premium chips. I wouldn't be surprised if Intel did something similar with Broadwell only offered in certain core configurations and Haswell refresh in others. This way they can use their 32 nm fabs for chipsets, they 22 nm fabs for Haswell refresh and their 14 nm fabs for Broadwell, which could be more economical and prevent supply constants.

EDIT: I think this is especially likely with the small generation over generation performance increases we now see. If Broadwell is only a few hundred extra megahertz or a few watts power savings at load, they cheaper Haswells would definitely still be marketable in some segments.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Keep in mind that 4 core 40 nm Nehalem was the desktop performance processor when 32 nm Westmere chips were used in the 2 core mobile and 6 core premium chips. I wouldn't be surprised if Intel did something similar with Broadwell only offered in certain core configurations and Haswell refresh in others. This way they can use their 32 nm fabs for chipsets, they 22 nm fabs for Haswell refresh and their 14 nm fabs for Broadwell, which could be more economical and prevent supply constants.

Seems quite likely that's the case. Wouldn't bet against you...

 

[Hulk]

I might be wrong but I seem to remember Anand writing something about Broadwell being the BIG move for Intel graphics-wise. I would be Broadwell will bring very little CPU gains from an IPC perspective while increasing the GPU considerably.

So for a desktop system there might not really be a reason to wait for Broadwell (Haswell refresh).

 

[tynopik]

I might be wrong but I seem to remember Anand writing something about Broadwell being the BIG move for Intel graphics-wise

Just like Haswell and Ivy and Sandy . . .

 

[blackened23]

Well, it *is* pretty obvious that Broadwell is a mobile focused SKU. I wouldn't expect the best iGPU except in the most expensive BGA mobile parts, similar to Haswell with HD5000+. I don't think anyone should expect a Conroe type jump on the desktop with Broadwell, because mobile is clearly the focus for intel. And rightfully so, that is where the money is right now - not desktop.

I can also find merit in wallstreet's theory. That could also happen.

 

[Name User]

Just like Haswell and Ivy and Sandy . . .

Yeah I remember starting to follow that BS hype so many years ago, "oh this iGPU is ok, but that NEXT one, oh that one is really going to be great"

I'm done, don't care, was going to build family non-enthusiast systems with these things but Intel GPUs are such garbage that I wouldn't wish one on my mother in law.

Same lame ass claims every cycle. Industry's dead, we're dinosaurs, go buy a phablet and consume some Bejewelled.

 

[escrow4]

Yeah I remember starting to follow that BS hype so many years ago, "oh this iGPU is ok, but that NEXT one, oh that one is really going to be great"

I'm done, don't care, was going to build family non-enthusiast systems with these things but Intel GPUs are such garbage that I wouldn't wish one on my mother in law.

Same lame ass claims every cycle. Industry's dead, we're dinosaurs, go buy a phablet and consume some Bejewelled.

On the contrary, the iGPU is more than sufficient for 2D tasks which the vast bulk of consumers do. Plus its also useful as a backup, I don't want to be stuck with no GPU at all in a system I'm trying to troubleshoot, i.e. FX.

 

[blackened23]

Yeah I remember starting to follow that BS hype so many years ago, "oh this iGPU is ok, but that NEXT one, oh that one is really going to be great"

I'm done, don't care, was going to build family non-enthusiast systems with these things but Intel GPUs are such garbage that I wouldn't wish one on my mother in law.

Same lame ass claims every cycle. Industry's dead, we're dinosaurs, go buy a phablet and consume some Bejewelled.

Really not sure what you're talking about. As mentioned earlier, HD4000 is more than enough for 2D tasks. Not everyone, and in fact, most consumers do not game on their portables. HD4000 and iGPU are fine for the intended market, and are getting better. Stop thinking in gamer's terms, iGPU isn't intended for that market.

I've used tons of ultrabooks with HD4000. And none of them had perceptible UI lag. HD4000+ is fine for the intended demographic, really.

 

[wasabiman123]

Pretty sure it's not BC with current Haswell due to electrical changes, but I might be wrong.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

Really not sure what you're talking about. As mentioned earlier, HD4000 is more than enough for 2D tasks. Not everyone, and in fact, most consumers do not game on their portables. HD4000 and iGPU are fine for the intended market, and are getting better. Stop thinking in gamer's terms, iGPU isn't intended for that market.

I've used tons of ultrabooks with HD4000. And none of them had perceptible UI lag. HD4000+ is fine for the intended demographic, really.

Actually the HD2000 is more then enough for basic tasks. It'll also handle video decoding just fine.

Where Intel IGPs could use some work is with the drivers. Those are the biggest let-down. Intel also has a very bad habit of suspending driver development after only a year. Nvidia and AMD are much better at supporting their older hardware.

 

[NTMBK]

Haswell Refresh seems to be a platform refresh only, not CPU.

I'm still hoping for some new bins, and maybe GT3 on LGA1150. (I've given up on Crystalwell, you've convinced me that it won't fit. ) Dual core Haswell plus GT3 with overclocked memory would make for a pretty decent HTPC.

 

[seitur]

Yeah I remember starting to follow that BS hype so many years ago, "oh this iGPU is ok, but that NEXT one, oh that one is really going to be great"

I'm done, don't care, was going to build family non-enthusiast systems with these things but Intel GPUs are such garbage that I wouldn't wish one on my mother in law.

Same lame ass claims every cycle. Industry's dead, we're dinosaurs, go buy a phablet and consume some Bejewelled.

Huh? If your family don't play games then lowlest Intel or AMD iGPU will be more than enough. I have build a box with HD 2500 and it absolutely FLIES in your standard desktop performance ( Desktop tasks, Video files, Webrowser with GPU acceleration and playing Full HD videos, etc). You won't notice diffrence in those tasks between iPGUs and dedicated video cards.I also saw a system with lowly A4 4000 doing same thing similarly. It is already there for last few years. If you wanna play games, then it's a diffrent story obviopsuly and then every new generation of iGPUs / APUs does bring significant performance increases/

 

[Headfoot]

Just like Haswell and Ivy and Sandy . . .

Don't know which world you're living in where Sandy wasn't a good chip

 

[Name User]

He's just talking about "this generation iGPU is a stepping stone, but that NEXT one will finally be the one" which happens over and over and over again. They're as irrelevant now as they were before, they're "adequate" for people who don't use them.

 

[Maximilian]

Yeah I remember starting to follow that BS hype so many years ago, "oh this iGPU is ok, but that NEXT one, oh that one is really going to be great"

I'm done, don't care, was going to build family non-enthusiast systems with these things but Intel GPUs are such garbage that I wouldn't wish one on my mother in law.

Same lame ass claims every cycle. Industry's dead, we're dinosaurs, go buy a phablet and consume some Bejewelled.

Its a fair point... I remember the BS hype surrounding sandys iGPU, and ivys... and now haswells, its always the next one thats gonna be great.

They're varying levels of crap for games and good enough for normal desktop stuff. Big whoop, same story with the old GMA950 (anyone remember that POS?). Haswell fixes the 23.976hz bug if anyone really cares about that.

 

[lopri]

Sockets are irrelevant. What matters is chipset support.
If the same chipset works, then typically it's meant the same socket. If the chipset doesn't work, it doesn't matter if it's the same socket or not.

Umm.. really?

 

[Cerb]

He's just talking about "this generation iGPU is a stepping stone, but that NEXT one will finally be the one" which happens over and over and over again. They're as irrelevant now as they were before, they're "adequate" for people who don't use them.

Today, they're adequate for people that do use them. Haswell finally got the IGP, and its supporting software, good enough, IME.

 

[JDG1980]

Some rumors have indicated that Haswell's FIVR will be removed from Haswell refresh and put back on the motherboard for non BGA SKU's. If that HAPPENS, then it will require a new socket from what i've read.

Hopefully, at the very least, the enthusiast and server LGA 2011 Haswell parts will move the FIVR off-die.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Haswell-E got the FIVR ondie. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about it. And some think removing it solves all the problems. Not gonna happen!

 

[JDG1980]

Yeah I remember starting to follow that BS hype so many years ago, "oh this iGPU is ok, but that NEXT one, oh that one is really going to be great"

I'm done, don't care, was going to build family non-enthusiast systems with these things but Intel GPUs are such garbage that I wouldn't wish one on my mother in law.

Intel's top iGPU this generation (Iris Pro) is actually pretty decent, about on par with AMD's top Richland APU (though it will be surpassed by Kaveri). But Iris Pro might as well be labeled "for Retina Macs only"; it isn't a mainstream part and is not available to system builders.

Now, if Intel can bring Iris Pro down to the mainstream (cheap Pentiums and i3s) for Broadwell, that would be a real advance for average users.

Same lame ass claims every cycle. Industry's dead, we're dinosaurs, go buy a phablet and consume some Bejewelled.

Yes, this is very tiresome. The PC is not dead; people who need to do real work are going to be on a real workstation for the indefinite future. What has happened is two things. First of all, around 2006 (Core 2 Duo / Athlon 64 X2) we started to get systems that were "good enough" for most general office work or household stuff, and didn't need to be replaced every 2-3 years. That's just a lengthening of the replacement cycle, not the "death of the PC". The second trend is that with decent smartphones and tablets, people who never really needed a PC - your stereotypical grandma who browsed the web and used email on a crappy Windows desktop loaded down with malware - had a more lightweight option that served their needs. Maybe the $300 eMachine piles of junk are going away (and good riddance), but again, that doesn't equate to the "death of the PC".