Intel "Haswell" Speculation thread

[boxleitnerb]

Very nice! Now if they increase clocks as well by 10-15%, then we're looking at a healthy 25+% performance increase.

 

[moonbogg]

Very nice! Now if they increase clocks as well by 10-15%, then we're looking at a healthy 25+% performance increase.

A chip at 4.6 or so would be pretty decent. That should turn 50fps into about 60. Not bad, but more would be nice. As long as they don't use chewing gum as a thermal transfer material we should be alright. Still, might be hard to ditch a sandy bridge for one of these unless it really is at least 25% faster.

 

[boxleitnerb]

I wouldn't expect more than 4GHz base clock if even that. Maybe 3.8Ghz. Intel's main goal is profits. If 200-300MHz more would lower yields by even only 5%, they won't do it unless it is necessary (AMD).

 

[Ajay]

Intel's main goal is to produce lower power CPUs for the mobile/tablet market it seems. Witness the flatter xtor performance/power that IDK (IIRC) posted elsewhere. That's what is limiting high end performance for enthusiasts.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Intel's main goal is to produce lower power CPUs for the mobile/tablet market it seems. Witness the flatter xtor performance/power that IDK (IIRC) posted elsewhere. That's what is limiting high end performance for enthusiasts.

Their datacenter group (Xeon) is also a very high growth area for them (15% annually).

 

[pelov]

So the consensus is that the eDRAM is Sky Lake rather than Haswell?

Haswell is looking to be a pretty good Ultrabook processor. IMO their first processor that makes sense for the form factor. Can't wait for products Standardized mSATA SSDs + standardized batteries with more capacity and hopefully lower prices...

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Fudzilla talks about 10+% IPC increase over Ivy Bridge:

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/28318-haswell-to-be-10 -percent-faster-than-ivy-bridge

10%, but wait that's slightly less than Nehalem -> Sandy Bridge!!


Interesting that Intel states more OC,



It all makes sense now, IB was purposefully gimped to make Haswell look even better!

 

[sefsefsefsef]

eDRAM is the main thing I was looking forward to. If it's not coming in Haswell, then I'll be sad. I wanted to buy a 13" dual-core MBP with an eDRAM-equipped Haswell next year. Intel better hope AMD doesn't use the eDRAM trick for iGPU performance before it can, because that would mean a significant leap forward in iGPU performance for AMD.

 

[Th3Loonatic]

Just wait. You'll be pleasantly surprised I think. Because... DO YOU BELIEVE IN MAGIC?

 

[ShintaiDK]

So the consensus is that the eDRAM is Sky Lake rather than Haswell?

Haswell is looking to be a pretty good Ultrabook processor. IMO their first processor that makes sense for the form factor. Can't wait for products Standardized mSATA SSDs + standardized batteries with more capacity and hopefully lower prices...

eDRAM on Intel chips is a forum invention.

 

[Ajay]

Their datacenter group (Xeon) is also a very high growth area for them (15% annually).

True, but as the high core count Xeons run at lower clockspeed, their efficiency fit's in particularly well with many datacenters operators desire to lower cooling costs. This is especially as cloud computing begins to take off, where mega-datacenters will likely become more common.

So low power usage is still likely preferred over larger gains in performance.

 

[Ajay]

10%, but wait that's slightly less than Nehalem -> Sandy Bridge!!

In that case, I'm especially glad I'm waiting for Haswell to replace my Nehalem. That'll be at ~3 years with the same mobo and CPU, quite a change from my former 18 month cycle (excluding upgrades to video, HD, memory, etc.). I just hope that Haswell with have a better TIM/IHS interface to facilitate better overclocking (without resorting remove the TIM).

 

[bronxzv]

eDRAM on Intel chips is a forum invention.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2012/0166822.html

 

[IntelUser2000]

eDRAM on Intel chips is a forum invention.

On-package DRAM or HMC(Hybrid Memory Cube) yes, eDRAM no.

10%, but wait that's slightly less than Nehalem -> Sandy Bridge!!

It says at least 10% faster, I don't think its out of line to expect Sandy Bridge like gain. But again I don't think we'll see more than 100-200MHz clock increases coupled with that.

Modern CPUs seem to be all converging towards similar clock speeds. Which could be due to fundamental limitation or design paradigm change(like lower power).

Haswell is looking to be a pretty good Ultrabook processor. IMO their first processor that makes sense for the form factor.

In order to improve 3D performance drastically Haswell needs significant improvements in power efficiency in the graphics core.

From Anandtech's benches, Ivy Bridge takes:
-4W CPU
-9W GPU
-4W rest for total of 17W in gaming.

To achieve 15W TDP and double the performance it would need 3x perf/watt increase for the iGPU which may result in:

-5W CPU
-6W GPU
-4W rest

5W allows CPU to be faster too and maybe lowering the "rest" to 3W and increase power budget to 6W for CPU would result in even higher clocks. 4.5x iGPU perf/watt increase would allow 3x performance increase with same power. Both figures are something really big to achieve. So I'm looking for something to confirm that indeed happens.

 

[soccerballtux]

Yeah, you might be correct, since Haswell was in development long before Sandy Bridge launched.

My question would be, if AMD doesn't show significant competition in the desktop market going forward, will Intel really have the fire to keep making great stuff? Doubt it. Remember the Core cpus came about due to the failure of Netburst primarily. It was AMD's moves that kept them on track. Intel is primarily a corporation, who knows if they have any reason to make Skylake superior.

at this point they're competing with themselves, their previous processors, so yes, I think they will have to keep coming out with something faster.

 

[IntelUser2000]

will Intel really have the fire to keep making great stuff? Doubt it.

Plenty.

-ARM
-More attractive laptops and AIO desktops with lower power chips
-Incentive for previous owners to upgrade
-Better tech = more profits

No matter how big and successful any company is, stagnation eventually results in massive suffering for the said company.

In regards to sales, forget that you are in an enthusiast forum. AMD at one point had over 50% retail desktop marketshare when AMD was at peak(relatively) with Athlon X2 chips.

 

[IntelUser2000]

So Fudzilla is saying that GT2 graphics on Haswell performs 3x the GT1 on Ivy Bridge. Back with Ivy Bridge Intel did similar comparisons. They compared Ivy Bridge GT2 with Sandy Bridge GT1 and said it was 3x as fast.

I think GT2 Ivy Bridge to GT2 Haswell might result in similar gains as GT2 Sandy Bridge to GT2 Ivy Bridge. Since the EU count only goes up 25%, I have to assume the effective flops may be improved again. Perhaps from 60% co-issuing to 100%? That would be like having 25 Ivy Bridge EUs.

 

[bronxzv]

On-package DRAM or HMC(Hybrid Memory Cube) yes, eDRAM no.

on-package DRAM is described as "eDRAM" in this Intel's patent http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2012/0166822.html


"[...] Now, dynamic random access memory is being included within the same packages, also known as semiconductor integrated circuit packages, as processors. This memory is referred to as embedded dynamic random access memory (eDRAM)."

 

[MisterMac]

It's interesting where it will end up.

Personally 20% or more from SB Clock for Clock, might make me upgrade.

But it will be interesting to see where the mainstream clocks will end, and if OC limits are raised from 4,6 to 5,0 for us enthusiasts from SB.
I don't really see how they could put out a chip that would be able to ... mainstreamly easy hit near 5 and go well above 5 for the golden chip\high water folk.

What else could they be referring to meaning "Better OC Abilities?"

 

[MisterMac]

Oh oh, new post.


If haswell optmisticly has a 3x advantage over GT1 IB - what score will it possibly reach in synthetic benchmarks and have of gpgpu power?


Is it in raw throughput possible it could be more powerful than the next gen consoles?
That'd be epicly hilarious.

 

[ShintaiDK]

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2012/0166822.html

I think you missed the point. People see a patent and then believes something that aint true. Remember AMD and ZRAM for example?

Next month we will get all details about Haswell at IDF. And eDRAM wont be there.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Wasn't the eDRAM / L4 Cache supposed to be used by the IGP?

If it's not added, won't the IGP memory bandwidth be bottelnecked if Haswell GT3 will have 40 EUs as specified in this Anandtech article?

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yes. Its always bottlenecked. Same for discrete cards or Trinity/Llano.

But SB/IB/HW/BW etc got access to the LLC for fast access with smaller working sets that way.

 

[bronxzv]

I think you missed the point

well, your point was that "eDRAM on Intel chips is a forum invention." but I don't see a guy named "forum" in the inventors' list of this patent but only Intel's engineers

 

[ShintaiDK]

well, your point was that "eDRAM on Intel chips is a forum invention." but I don't see a guy named "forum" in the inventors' list of this patent but only Intel's engineers

It was a forum invention in terms of Haswell, Broadwell etc.