Intel have been secretly building Sandy Bridge CPUs as high as June 2015 manufactured date...

[waltchan]

I'd like to think it's performance art, but I've met people.

In addition to building obsolete PCs I like to do as a hobby, I'm also an artist and a musician as well that already released my demo, so pardon my obscure writing that gathers quick attention and new fans easily. I also have 14 years of close relationship with one of the players in "Trapt" rock band since his first day of college during 2003-2004 school year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapt

 

[LTC8K6]

So, I'm typing on this with G850, very identical performance to G645. Intel claims 2.9 GHz G850 is more advanced and newer technology than 3.1 GHz G870. Who knows why...

G645/850/870 are all the same Sandy Bridge generation and all perform very close to each other. The G645 is at a slight but almost unnoticeable disadvantage as it only supports 1066 ram, whereas the other two support 1333 ram. The only reason the 870 is a little faster is a clock speed advantage.

Why does Intel claim that a 32nm Sandy Bridge chip is more advanced and newer technology than a 32nm Sandy Bridge chip?

 

[Valantar]

Why does Intel claim that a 32nm Sandy Bridge chip is more advanced and newer technology than a 32nm Sandy Bridge chip?

That part fascinates me as well.

I mean, sure, we all like to find bargain hardware, and some of us (like me with my Core2Quad main rig) love to stretch hardware to last as long as possible. And the relative stagnation of CPU performance in recent years does mean that old CPUs are surprisingly useful. But buying loads of pentiums (those were crappy even when they launched!) from five generations ago (where are you going to get matching motherboards? Those do degrade, after all) just because they happen to be produced recently still doesn't make sense in my mind. A 2011 design is a 2011 design, after all, and CPUs don't age in any noticeable way unless overvolted into oblivion.

Sure, a 2.9GHz Sandy Bridge Pentium will only be ~20% slower than a 2.9GHz Haswell Pentium. Which is again ~20% slower than a 2.9GHz Kaby Lake Pentium, while lacking support for all kinds of new-fangled fancy stuff like USB 3.1, NVMe drives, and so on. At least Haswell motherboards are still somewhat available. Then again, Kaby Lake Pentiums are clocked far higher, alongside their 40%+ IPC gain over Sandy Bridge, and use far less power. A 35W Pentium G4600T is clocked higher than a 65W G850. Oh, and motherboards are plentiful, and cheap.

Is a $15 CPU a great thing? Sure, if it performs well enough for your use case and it's possible to get a motherboard for it (that won't die due to capacitor degradation within a year or two) for a reasonable price. But somehow arguing that a 2019 production run of a 2011 low-end design will be suited for 8-10 years from then simply because it's made in 2019 is ... weird. How is that CPU better in any way than an identical chip made in 2011? And how is it not very, very clearly worse than a 2015-2017 design that performs 40-50% better?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

In addition to building obsolete PCs I like to do as a hobby, I'm also an artist and a musician as well that already released my demo, so pardon my obscure writing that gathers quick attention and new fans easily. I also have 14 years of close relationship with one of the players in "Trapt" rock band since his first day of college during 2003-2004 school year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapt

So... you're tweakboy?

 

[mikeymikec]

What and where exactly does Intel make this claim?

 

[DrMrLordX]

What and where exactly does Intel make this claim?

On the outside of the boxes of Cracker Jack where waltchan got all his G850s.

 

[NTMBK]

So... you're tweakboy?

I kind of miss that guy.

 

[Shivansps]

Well at least is a step forward of those useless fm1 and am1 cpu he used to buy and resell.

But still those are slow today. Yes cpu kmprovements has been slow but you can feel the change on low end a lot more. G3930 g4400 and g4560 just kick ass of any old low end cpu.

Not to mention igp.

 

[Sheep221]

In addition to building obsolete PCs I like to do as a hobby, I'm also an artist and a musician as well that already released my demo, so pardon my obscure writing that gathers quick attention and new fans easily. I also have 14 years of close relationship with one of the players in "Trapt" rock band since his first day of college during 2003-2004 school year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapt

I just hope you are not refurbishing old computers with 2010 technology and sell them priced like 2015 ones just because you have CPUs from 2015. Regardless of no major improvements since sandie times.
All this messing around with mfg dates of stuff looks like you are really trying to sell something for more than its real price is.

 

[waltchan]

G645/850/870 are all the same Sandy Bridge generation and all perform very close to each other. The G645 is at a slight but almost unnoticeable disadvantage as it only supports 1066 ram, whereas the other two support 1333 ram. The only reason the 870 is a little faster is a clock speed advantage.

Why does Intel claim that a 32nm Sandy Bridge chip is more advanced and newer technology than a 32nm Sandy Bridge chip?

What I don't understand is why Pentium G860 3.0GHz and G870 3.1GHz were discontinued by Intel, but they decide to let G850 2.9GHz roll along today in limited quantities. Is it because of stability or heat amount for going passive?

 

[Mopetar]

Caveat emptor and all of that. I guess if you were building computers to give away to people who wouldn't otherwise have one, then it's pretty reasonable to find low cost parts that will probably be fine for a lot of people who aren't going to be power users. At that point I'd think you'd want to install Linux though as it would be less resource intensive.

The notion that physical hardware should be some kind of free privilege doesn't make a lot of sense no matter how you split it. Software is infinitely reproducible so it's easy to make an argument for free/open-source software, but hardware requires resources to be dug up and a physical chip (even if based on a free/open design) to be fabricated, and shipped. Someone has to do all of those things and unless they do so voluntarily you can't get a free product.

I used to like recycling and re-purposing old computer tech when I was younger and had a lot more spare time. I once bought about a dozen old Pentium 2 boxes that a university was surplussing for $5 a piece and that included RAM, HD, etc. A few I turned into servers or boxes to play around with for projects of my own and a lot got turned into cheap Linux PC's that I gave out to friends and family. Not great machines by any stretch, but still capable for their time.

 

[waltchan]

Celeron G3930 Kaby Lake going for $39 at Micro Center. Saw it last night but didn't pick one up (call me stubborn).

I was there to buy both a new $39 Toshiba 1TB hard drive and $15 LG DVD-RW drive to complement my new G850. Both have Oct. 2016 mfg. dates I wanted. Installed the newest version of Windows 10 Creator's Update just released online.

Despite the processor's 2015 mfg. year, the POS system was actually sold somewhere in early-2016. So my Pentium G850 it was pulled out from is actually a 2016 model year, newer than some of your Skylake you're typing on.

 

[jpiniero]

What I don't understand is why Pentium G860 3.0GHz and G870 3.1GHz were discontinued by Intel, but they decide to let G850 2.9GHz roll along today in limited quantities. Is it because of stability or heat amount for going passive?

It has embedded options available, that's probably it.

 

[Valantar]

It has embedded options available, that's probably it.

That it has that shows that that specific SKU has (always) been flagged as a business/long term support SKU, which is why it's still being made. And that rarely ends up being the top SKU of any line.

Celeron G3930 Kaby Lake going for $39 at Micro Center. Saw it last night but didn't pick one up (call me stubborn).

Why not? Wouldn't the total platform cost with a ~$40 motherboard be comparable to your Sandy builds, all the while being a good deal faster?

So my Pentium G850 it was pulled out from is actually a 2016 model year, newer than some of your Skylake you're typing on.

Again, I have to ask: why does this matter to you? I don't mean to be overly critical, I'm truly curious about this obvious fascination of yours for "mint in box vintage" CPUs.

 

[escrow4]

<snip>

newer than some of your Skylake you're typing on.

The 7600 non K in this box would smash a dozen of those 2011 Pentiums and still have puff left over. This is the same thing VirtualLarry is starting to realize. Instead of rubbish step up to real hardware that lasts and you end up saving more in the end than nickel and dime CPUs.

 

[.vodka]

Despite the processor's 2015 mfg. year, the POS system was actually sold somewhere in early-2016. So my Pentium G850 it was pulled out from is actually a 2016 model year, newer than some of your Skylake you're typing on.

Manufacturing date... It doesn't matter when you're using locked processors. As manufacturing processes get better over time, you sure get better chips, better silicon vs the first batches out of the fab. It's a shame that this better silicon can't be pushed to its limits... And even then you're playing the silicon lottery. So all in all it's an interesting thing to note, but that's about it. A Sandy Bridge die is the same, functionally and for every practical use and consideration, if it's a 2011 batch or a 2016 batch.

Processors are also virtually indestructible and have practically unlimited use time if they're run within specifications, and are useful until their performance falls short of what's needed as software advances. Again, a moot point for a 2011 or 2016 batch CPU, it's the performance that matters... low clocked Sandy is starting to feel old at this point. Motherboards on the other hand tend to degrade after five or six years... good luck finding Sandy/Ivy motherboards in mostly decent shape.

So, again, why does manufacturing date matter to you? What you're buying is what's important, and on that regard the G4560 would like to have a few words with you. It's dirt cheap for what it offers (3.5GHz, HT, a healthy IPC increase over Sandy, up to date DX12 graphics, ridiculously low power consumption, etc), there are dirt cheap H110 motherboards that can run this chip, and DDR4 at some point will be cheaper than it is now (it's a cyclic industry, sometimes it's expensive to buy RAM, sometimes it's dirt cheap).


Sure it's fun to buy old hardware and get it working.. but what's the point? Entry level modern hardware like the already mentioned G4560 (around stock 2500k performance) is all in all just too compelling a package to even consider low end Sandy/Ivy era hardware relative to how useful it'll be later down the road.

 

[waltchan]

I just hope you are not refurbishing old computers with 2010 technology and sell them priced like 2015 ones just because you have CPUs from 2015. Regardless of no major improvements since sandie times.
All this messing around with mfg dates of stuff looks like you are really trying to sell something for more than its real price is.

I already installed my 2016 model year G850 in my second-bedroom. Runs like a champ. Is 64MB shared graphics memory enough for Sandy Bridge? BIOS menu only let me do 128MB max.

 

[mikeymikec]

According to Process Explorer, my video card is using 120MB video RAM and all I have open are four Chrome tabs, Thunderbird and my calendar on a 1080p screen.

 

[waltchan]

According to Process Explorer, my video card is using 120MB video RAM and all I have open are four Chrome tabs, Thunderbird and my calendar on a 1080p screen.

I'm using an Acer OEM board that was pulled out from Acer ATC-600 desktop model (bought it new, never opened), and use it as custom-built, which has B75 SATA III chipset. Board was made by Biostar. I changed all the parts from original 2013 Celeron G1620, to 2012 G870, and now to 2015 Pentium G850. At that time, G1620 was worth $35 and got rid of it quick.

This board will see a new 2019 i3-2120 if I can find one for $12, plus a new 2019 500GB SSD, and downgrade memory RAM from 8GB to 4GB DDR3 RAM as RAMs do appreciate in value. Shared graphics is defaulted to 64MB. Is it enough?

 

[mikeymikec]

Shared graphics is defaulted to 64MB. Is it enough?

I thought my previous post was sufficient to imply that I doubt 64MB graphics is enough.

 

[Bouowmx]

Integrated GPU will use system memory as needed, up to driver or OS maximum (half of system memory in Windows).

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Maybe I "lucked out" in late 2014, when I found two P8Z68-V-Pro/Gen3 motherboards for $85 each at Ascendtech. I think they were brand-new with minor defects -- such things as a broken memory-slot latch that you can get by without as long as you have tough fingernails. For the electronics, Ascendtech has its own repair facilities capable of replacing soldered ICs on PCBs. They have two store-fronts: one speaking to corporate IT managers, their assets and replacement programs; the other selling parts to your casual computer-savvy shopper.

I don't even think it's easy to find Z77 motherboards anymore. But I would only know about the Z models. There were several other lga-1155 chipsets. It's just my weakness -- I build lower-end systems for the family, and a high-end second-tier system for myself every three to five years. The fam-damn-ily has either my cast-off Sandy Bridge system, or an Ivy Bridge with the Z77-A motherboard. I think we've squeezed 8 years out of some older LGA-775 systems, and the oldest of the lga-1155 systems now operational has been running almost 6 years.

 

[Dresdenboy]

Not really. Intel usually has some straggling production lines somewhere producing older chips. If there's a market for them, in specialty applications, then it's profitable to still run the line at that older fab, rather than let it sit idle.

Given the way how semis are being produced, wouldn't it be more like they produce them in batches as needed? I.e. ready the tools, insert masks, produce batch of wafers, switch tools to other stuff (chipsets, Atoms, whatever).

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Given the way how semis are being produced, wouldn't it be more like they produce them in batches as needed? I.e. ready the tools, insert masks, produce batch of wafers, switch tools to other stuff (chipsets, Atoms, whatever).

Yup. It's about the process node that a line can produce, not the specific product.

A last-gen 22nm or 32nm production line would still be used to product things like chipsets (which usually lag a node behind their CPUs), SSD controllers, NICs, etc., etc., etc.

Intel makes all sorts of cool stuff.

 

[waltchan]

Instead of me chasing down for the fastest model in Celeron and Pentium lineup, as well as AMD processors, I think I'll rather shop by newest manufactured date instead regardless of speed and model, as this saves me more money without risking any old-age worries.

The last and final AM3 processor was the Phenom II X2 570 with December 2013 mfg. date (L3). All Phenom II X4s are at least 1.5 years older I've found. The last and final FM1 processor was the A4-3300 with December 2013 mfg. date (L3) as well.