Intel I219V vs Killer E2500?

[zod96]

Looking to get either the Msi Gaming Plus or the Msi Gaming M5. I like the look of the Plus better and also the lack of RGB on it, I hate lighting on a motherboard. The only real big difference I see is that the Msi Gaming Plus uses the Intel I219V LAN and the M5 uses the Killer E2500. Are Killer LAN's that much better than Intel for gaming? Also I don't install software with my Lan's just the basic driver, so no software will be installed with the Intel or Killer lan Ethernet. So is there any real advantage of the Killer nic over the intel without installing the software or are they about the same?

 

[repoman0]

I would pay extra for a board with Intel LAN over any other brand, especially Killer.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Killer drivers have improved a lot in the past couple of years. Having said that, Intel is still the safest choice. Sounds like an easy choice to me to get the Plus.

 

[zod96]

Yes, but I have also heard that if you use just the basic driver, then you lose all the real benefits of the Killer LAN over the Intel. That all the stuff that makes the Killer good is actually software related. That is what I am actually trying to figure out, if there is any real advantage to using the killer LAN without the software.

 

[arandomguy]

Without the specific QoS software, which is what they are really selling it's just whether or not you think a Qualcomm NIC compares to an Intel one or even a Realtek one.

The tests I've seen run show the them having some marginal differences depending on the test in terms of things like throughput potential and CPU usage. I don't think either was clearly better.

 

[zod96]

This quote "which is what they are really selling" is what I am getting at, is all there advantages just in the software really, or is it more hardware related, I am thinking it's all smoke and mirrors in the software and that without the software installed the Intel and Killer are pretty much equal...

 

[arandomguy]

From what I've heard they aren't even really up-selling (well they don't even sell directly to the consumer anymore) as in the pricing to OEMs is comparable to Intels.

Also by the way I looked in your OP and there are many other differences between the 2 boards you listed such as audio solution and internal and external ports (m2 support, usb support, video).

 

[daveybrat]

I purposefully only buy motherboards with a Intel NIC on them as i've had the best luck with them.

My old AMD Phenom II board had the basic Realtek Lan and i disabled it and added an Intel PCIe Lan card and it was much better in games for me.

 

[DigDog]

Killer lan were tested with and without software by (IIRC) Tomshardware and they found ZERO improvement over standard LAN.

 

[daveybrat]

Killer lan were tested with and without software by (IIRC) Tomshardware and they found ZERO improvement over standard LAN.

Yup, it's just a bunch of Snake Oil marketing if you ask me.

 

[ChriscomIT]

As a long time Killer user trust me when I say that without their software u don't get any benefits (except the better overvoltage protection) compared to an Intel NIC. With the software, on the other hand, you get a really solid QoS/shaping solution which works great for gaming and multimedia or when you have small bandwidth/high ping. As well as some other small features. So if you don't plan to install their Performance Suite software you are more as good with the Intel NIC. Hardware wise they are near to identical.

BTW Intel and Killer are partnering together for their newest WLAN AC chip. Combining Intel hardware and Killer software so 1+1=2 especially when I read things like "snake oil marketing".

 

[Charlie22911]

I’ve have never experienced any of the horror stories associated with Killer stuff dating back to my first product with them in 2011 (Alienware M17x). To be fair, their software “optimizations” have never done anything for me other than maybe add bloat.
I’ve run about an even mix of Intel and Killer with Realtek and Atheros sprinkled in by the way; if anything I’ve had more issues with Realtek than Killer.

At the end of the day, any differences between *modern* Killer and Intel nics will be difficult to quantify and almost certainly imperceptible during every day use. Just buy the board that best fits your budget and needs, ignore all the other background noise.

 

[VirtualLarry]

BTW Intel and Killer are partnering together

I really hope that's not true. I don't want Intel NICs to go the way of Killer, and become the laughingstock of the industry...

 

[ChriscomIT]

I really hope that's not true. I don't want Intel NICs to go the way of Killer, and become the laughingstock of the industry...

Lol, it is just open your eyes, please. Killer 1550 is an Intel WLAN AC chip which is their top of the line chip right now and it works with Killer software. As I said they actually partnered. Yeah, that's your opinion and it seems you are very alone with it. Also why you bash them without any clear reason or argument? Why you have to do so? Please explain your "laughingstock of the industry" statement as it is ridiculous in my opinion. And as well when the tech industry is coming together to enhance products it is a good thing in 99% of the cases.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Please explain your "laughingstock of the industry" statement as it is ridiculous in my opinion.

Well, Intel has always been known as the server-grade, rock-solid reliability, NIC company. Whereas, Killer has been known as "snake-oil peddlers", from back in the day. Maybe they've improved their software since then, but based on their reputation, I'd never get a "killer NIC". Dubious "gaming" benchmarks aside.

Edit: And who the heck uses WLAN for gaming? Killer's "Double-shot" - teaming WLAN with wired, is a joke, as evidenced by many comments by real gamers.

 

[ChriscomIT]

I said before that without the Killer software the hardware NICs pretty much the same. Killer was never known as "snake oil peddlers" don't know what your sources are but they seem very dubious. Have you ever tried a Killer NIC for urself???? Killer hardware was never bad its Qualcomm Atheros hardware to be correct. The software was a lil buggy in the early days but they improved much and also its a complex piece of software and the only solution for home consumers which of I know can route your packets over different interfaces in regard to user set priorities. Seems like Intel did a bit more research...

Sure WLAN is not the best for gaming but some ppl are limited to WLAN and as well the double shot thing is not bad and does its job. Can you tell me the gamers who made these statements you mentioned or can u link me to a video where they say it? Rivet/Killer is actually working with big streamers/pro gamers and also with Dignitas eSports team. So far your statements are still ridiculous and sound like from a whiny kid which has a problem with Killer because of undefined issues.

 

[Charlie22911]

QoS and teaming are a niche use case, but a legitimate one for certain folks. The majority of gamers probably don’t configure their routers for QoS, and I’m sure most folks don’t run dual WAN to do things such as simultaneously gaming/streaming with teaming or whatever.

In fact, every Killer hardware implementation I’m aware of uses COTS parts from Qualcomm/Atheros with a custom driver stack. If you don’t like the software you can simply get the driver only pack from them, which is what I’ve done with my x99a Godlike Carbon which uses 2x Killer e2400s+AC-1535; you don’t have to use their software if you don’t want to. I don’t.

So again it depends on the customer and their use case, and for the average person there are more important things they should be worried about in a build than what NIC a vendor uses IMHO.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Killer was never known as "snake oil peddlers" don't know what your sources are but they seem very dubious.

Search for "killer nic snake oil", and the top hit is a review from this very site:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/2111

The phrase Snake Oil is one of the most commonly used online terms to describe the Killer NIC.

You're obviously new around here...

A comment from that article:

What's the point of reviewing something like this. In the first part of the review they say "the internet is variable". That's your key right there. There's no point in speeding up your connection to your cable/dsl modem when everything else from here to whatever is unknown. 300 bucks on a card like this and connecting it to your typical linksys router with the new VxWorks firmware with limited number of NAT connections it's about as dumb putting huge spoilers on a shitty car.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Killer hardware was never bad its Qualcomm Atheros hardware to be correct.

Sure, NOW it is. The original "Killer NIC" was not Qualcomm / Atheros, that I know of.

 

[ChriscomIT]

Yeah, but the original Killer card was not bad as well. They just didn't support it anymore after a long time so there were a lot of issues with the driver lately but its EOL since years so that's what all companies do. Try a GeForce 6800 under Win 7,8 or 10 and don't tell me you get any issues. It's the same. Also, I thought we talking about the actual hardware/software as the thread starter asked about a mainboard with actual Killer hardware onboard. I used the original card as well for a long time and under the supported operating systems, it worked well they even developed a own linux like network stack for the old pci cards which was much better than the original windows network stack back then in Win7 times. Imho the new products are not that powerful anymore but they improved much on the software side and windows network subsystem changed a lot so this is not an issue as its quite equal performance wise and CPUs are powerful enough nowadays to offload network traffic (TCP/UDP).

 

[VirtualLarry]

Don't get me wrong, network (TCP offload engine, DMA queueing, etc.) technologies are great, and those server-grade technologies are basically mainstream these days (maybe not RealTek's cheapest options?).

Killer's current network stack is hopefully more polished these days.

I don't "hate" them, per se, but it seems like they are mostly marketing hype. I had a board with a Killer NIC. I hated it, no Linux support (at the time). Had to dig to find "non-Killer" drivers (for Windows). Overall, a bit more of a PITA than a real Intel, or even RealTek NIC. Realtek may be crappy, but at least it's pretty-much all supported under Linux.

Btw, Windows' own network stack is much-improved these days, and therefore, very little space for "Killer" to improve upon. Their feature for teaming wifi with wired, is, IMHO pointless marketing, and all they are good for these days.

 

[Charlie22911]

I don’t think it’s exactly fair to quote a 12 year old article, nor is it to call someone out for being new. Our lord and savior Jim Keller could register and I doubt anyone would remark on his forum tenure.

But none of that is really the point of this thread, Killer is often instantly thrashed at the mere mention of its name. I believe *every* product should be judged solely on its own individual merits. Brand loyalty, and likewise brand treachery is just silly; that’s the point we should be making to OP. Not regurgitating the same opinionated statements typically found in some comment section, we’re better than that I think.

 

[evident]

Intel all the way when it comes to NICs.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well, by "new around here", I actually meant "this industry", and not specifically "this forum", if he's never heard "Killer NIC" referred to as "Snake oil".

And that comment was largely correct. What the point of implementing an entire alternative network stack in a PCI card with an offload CPU as compared with the OSes native network stack. All to save a minute few ms to the local router? (When the big 'ole non-QoS internet is variable like that)

Modern NICs have offload, and connected via PCI-E, they have high bandwidth and low latency, and modern Windows' networking stacks are just as efficient as Linux, for the most part.

So, IMHO, any sort of marketing improvement by Killer NIC, these days, is possibly MORE "Snake Oil" *(marketing), than even their original product.

 

[Charlie22911]

You know whose NICs are truely broken? At least in Linux it’s often Realtek as soon as you enable any offloading. Intel is by far the most reliable in that environment.
In windows they are all about the same, and yes I agree for most folks Killer software is pretty pointless, but again there *are* legitimate and very specific use cases that don’t apply to most of us.
If you don’t need the software it’s as simple as not installing it.

And besides, if we were to lambaste every tech company for their marketing efforts then no one would buy anything; they are all guilty of “snake oil” claims.

I just want to make sure both sides of the story are accurately portrayed as it applies to OPs question.