Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[Hitman928]

No, it’s not. The closest competition is Core 7 165H or 185H.

Core 7 155H - 4.8ghz, 28W
Core 7 165H - 5.0ghz, 28-45W?
Core 7 185H - 5.1ghz, 45W
Ryzen 7840HS - 5.1ghz, 35-54W

So what would 155H's competitor be? 155H should have the same cTDP as 165h. AMD doesn't have as many SKUs so the next comparison would be the 6-core 7640HS which is a "5" tier competitor, not a "7" tier competitor.

Edit: The 185H is a Core 9 tier product, not Core 7. AMD's competitor there is the 7940HS.

 

[H433x0n]

So what would 155H's competitor be? 155H should have the same cTDP as 165h. AMD doesn't have as many SKUs so the next comparison would be the 6-core 7640HS which is a "5" tier competitor, not a "7" tier competitor.

Edit: The 185H is a Core 9 tier product, not Core 7. AMD's competitor there is the 7940HS.

Don’t know, there doesn’t seem to be a direct competitor to 155H.

If I had to guess it’d be 165H v 7840HS and 185H v 7940HS.

 

[PJVol]

Attention to the timespy scores, roughly 4000 points which is much higher versus the chinese leak from yesterday (3339 overall/3077 GPU).

What is the source of this 4000 time spy points?

 

[Hitman928]

Don’t know, there doesn’t seem to be a direct competitor to 155H.

If I had to guess it’d be 165H v 7840HS and 185H v 7940HS.

Which is why I said the 7840hs is AMD’s closest competitor. . .

 

[H433x0n]

Which is why I said the 7840hs is AMD’s closest competitor. . .

You’re free to compare it to a lower binned 28W part but it’s somewhat misleading. Generally speaking when comparing Phoenix to Raptor Lake it’s usually 7840HS vs 13700H, not the 1360p or 1370p. Ideally there’d be a 7740U to compare it to but unfortunately that’s not the case.

Edit: Looks like there’s a 7840U that should be pretty close.

 

[mikk]

What is the source of this 4000 time spy points?

Lenovo posted a video. I believe APO was enabled in driver 4730 for MTL.

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[igor_kavinski]

SAGV Points - 006 - ID:743844 | 13th Generation Intel® Core™ and Intel® Core™ 14th Generation Processors

According to that table, LPDDR5-6400 runs in Gear 4 mode so safe to assume that 7467 will also be in G4 mode with not that great latency. Good for graphics but at the expense of latency sensitive workloads.

 

[Tup3x]

You’re free to compare it to a lower binned 28W part but it’s somewhat misleading. Generally speaking when comparing Phoenix to Raptor Lake it’s usually 7840HS vs 13700H, not the 1360p or 1370p. Ideally there’d be a 7740U to compare it to but unfortunately that’s not the case.

Edit: Looks like there’s a 7840U that should be pretty close.

28W Core 7 should indeed be compared against 7840U.

 

[PJVol]

Lenovo posted a video. I believe APO was enabled in driver 4730 for MTL.

I watched the video twice but still didn't see any results. Can you provide the timestamp where the TS score is shown?

 

[Hitman928]

You’re free to compare it to a lower binned 28W part but it’s somewhat misleading. Generally speaking when comparing Phoenix to Raptor Lake it’s usually 7840HS vs 13700H, not the 1360p or 1370p. Ideally there’d be a 7740U to compare it to but unfortunately that’s not the case.

Edit: Looks like there’s a 7840U that should be pretty close.

I agree that the 165h would probably be a better comparison point, but that’s not what the leakers had access to. We only have 155h scores so then you find the closest AMD chip you can. Once we have the official release, we can make better comparisons but we’re not there yet.

 

[mikk]

I watched the video twice but still didn't see any results. Can you provide the timestamp where the TS score is shown?

It's all here above Timespy-Gfx: http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...ussion-threads.2606448/page-162#post-41120697

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Only 3 days are left. I think we will endure It, right guys?

Some new leaks.

Videocardz

 

[FlameTail]

So what price-class of devices will Lunar Lake feature in?

Sub-$1000 possible?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

So what price-class of devices will Lunar Lake feature in?

Sub-$1000 possible?

MTL is not released yet, and you are already thinking about Lunar Lake?

 

[cebri1]

Only 3 days are left. I think we will endure It, right guys?

Some new leaks.

Videocardz

If the memory is operating at those latencies with the current software/drivers I would not take very seriously any pre-release leaked benchmark.

 

[FlameTail]

MTL is not released yet, and you are already thinking about Lunar Lake?

Yes.

Lunar Lake is leaked to have a 4+4 CPU, with a mighty iGPU, minimum 16GB of on package RAM etc...

I am struggling to understand what class of product this will be?

 

[PJVol]

It's all here above Timespy-Gfx:

There are no such data in a source video. I just wanted to know where those numbers originally came from. What's wrong with my question?

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

If the memory is operating at those latencies with the current software/drivers I would not take very seriously any pre-release leaked benchmark.

I am more interested in that iGPU. 4100pts in TimeSpy is seriously a lot. Even If It was at 65W, It would be great. Even Strix Point will have a problem achieving that much with only 16CU, but of course what matters are real games.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

Yes.

Lunar Lake is leaked to have a 4+4 CPU, with a mighty iGPU, minimum 16GB of on package RAM etc...

I am struggling to understand what class of product this will be?

Of course, It's for ultrabooks with very low TDP.
This can also be used in handhelds, where CPU core count is not important.

It will be an interesting product by having 8Xe cores based on low power Battlemage. Frequency looks like 1.2GHz for 12W and 1.85GHz for 30W, not bad.
BTW, there is also a 32GB version on package RAM.

 

[Philste]

There are no such data in a source video. I just wanted to know where those numbers originally came from. What's wrong with my question?

That's exactly what I asked myself too. The actual data is now only in the Videocardz Article. I commented below the Article, but WhyCry doesn't seem to know what I mean. But I doubt he faked it. Article on Videocardz is dated before the Video of Lenovo, so probably they removed it and reuploaded it without the Data because of NDA breach.

 

[mikk]

That's exactly what I asked myself too. The actual data is now only in the Videocardz Article. I commented below the Article, but WhyCry doesn't seem to know what I mean. But I doubt he faked it. Article on Videocardz is dated before the Video of Lenovo, so probably they removed it and reuploaded it without the Data because of NDA breach.

It's not from videocardz, the chinese source posted it with these scores: https://www.ithome.com/0/738/050.htm

 

[PJVol]

It's not from videocardz, the chinese source posted it with these scores:

There are no scores either, or am I blind? Sorry )

 

[cebri1]

There are no scores either, or am I blind? Sorry )

Hard to see but they are there:

I am more interested in that iGPU. 4100pts in TimeSpy is seriously a lot. Even If It was at 65W, It would be great. Even Strix Point will have a problem achieving that much with only 16CU, but of course what matters are real games.

It was expected to be close to a 1060 in bechmarks, I don't expect to be more than 10% faster in games than the 780M but we'll have to wait at least a week until reviewers get their hand on them.

 

[TESKATLIPOKA]

It was expected to be close to a 1060 in bechmarks, I don't expect to be more than 10% faster in games than the 780M but we'll have to wait at least a week until reviewers get their hand on them.

If that 4100 pts is true, then It will be faster than just 10%, but there could be games where It will be only a bit faster or even on par with 780M.

 

[PJVol]

Hard to see but they are there:

We're talking about chinese source, not videocardz.