Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[Philste]

any ideas how many TOPS LNL is having? Based on Pat saying PTL is having 2X TOPs, I am expecting around 30 TOPS?

Raichu said Goal is 42 TOPS. Pat said 3× performance. AMD claims 1.4× more performance for Hawk Point despite 1.6× more TOPs, so the 42 TOPs for Lunar Lake are possible.

 

[DavidC1]

Meteor Lake: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6752_Core+Ultra+100
Hawk Point: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Hawk+Point

Meteorlake: 52 designs

So ~150 designs is not a full launch but a pretty good one.

 

[Abwx]

Meteorlake: 52 designs

So ~150 designs is not a full launch but a pretty good one.

Listing 4x a Lenovo Slim is not 4 designs.
HP Spectre 360 is listed 16x, but if you think that it amount to 16 designs why not...

 

[trivik12]

There are close to 30 laptops between Dell, HP and Lenovo. Plus you can buy it from any major retailer like Best Buy, Amazon, Costco, Newegg etc. At this point availability is not a question at all.

On reviews I see them at notebookcheck for multiple laptops and of course most youtube influencers have reviewed MTL laptops.

 

[SiliconFly]

Experimental? 2-3 what?

Meteor Lake: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=6752_Core+Ultra+100
Hawk Point: https://geizhals.de/?cat=nb&xf=9690_Hawk+Point

You see the difference? Did you confuse AMD with Intel when you talk about 2-3 experimental laptops? You can brand every laptop generation from AMD to a paper generation when you talk like this.

Totally agree. Intel always has a lot more design wins in laptops compared to AMD. But even though Intel has partnered with all the leading OEMs for MTL, we're still not seeing MTL laptops on the shelves everywhere like with previous generation Intel processors.

 

[mikk]

Some must live in a dream world calling Meteor Lake a paper launch and claiming just 2-3 experimental devices are available is straight up lying. A lot of announced designs are still coming. AMD would have been happy if they could achieve something like this. You are aware ADL and RPL wasn't ready with 25+ designs after not even 2 months? There is always a ramp up over time.

 

[DavidC1]

I'm going to settle this nonsense.

Intel 14th-gen Meteor Lake: architecture, specs, and performance

Intel's 14-gen Meteor Lake processors are here and will soon start appearing in laptops. Here's everything you need to know about them.

finance.yahoo.com

All in all, Intel predicts that there’ll be plenty of Meteor Lake laptops to go around, with over 230 unique designs available.

That's the official number. Back in full launches such as Skylake, they mentioned over 800 design wins.

I have some doubt that Meteorlake will reach 230 since Raptorlake U takes the low end, but 3x MTL is NOT a small launch to those of you that can't see things unbiased.

To be honest, I don't care as much as I used to. Neither company doing well or badly affects me in any shape or form. It's same endless little-ahead and then little-behind for the past 30+ years. Us caring has same impact as Taylor Swift fans thinking they'll get 1-on-1 time with her.

 

[mikk]

155H iGPU gaming benchmarks from CB on 11 games: https://www.computerbase.de/2024-02/gaming-meteor-lake-test-intel-core-ultra-7-155h-spiele/

Different memory speeds and package power to the other tested CPUs unfortunately. Newest driver 5234 runs 5% faster than 5008. On the downside MTL crashed sometimes. Driver seems not as stable as on Arc dGPU.

 

[jpiniero]

Some must live in a dream world calling Meteor Lake a paper launch and claiming just 2-3 experimental devices are available is straight up lying. A lot of announced designs are still coming. AMD would have been happy if they could achieve something like this. You are aware ADL and RPL wasn't ready with 25+ designs after not even 2 months? There is always a ramp up over time.

It's definitely less than Icelake so far. I haven't seen any Meteor U yet but if Lunar is really coming that soon... perhaps OEMs just won't bother.

 

[mikk]

It's definitely less than Icelake so far. I haven't seen any Meteor U yet but if Lunar is really coming that soon... perhaps OEMs just won't bother.

Nope, Icelake was more of a paper launch with lower availability than MTL after less than 2 months. The first laptop came out 1+ month after launch. I think you are comparing Icelake after 1 year with Meteor Lake after less than two months.

 

[igor_kavinski]

That leaves MTl only like 9 months to shine?

Intel is happy that it fooled OEMs into creating laptops with its barely ready first ever disaggregated CPU in significant volume and it will be happy once it can sell them LNL CPUs so soon afterwards.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The 155H seems to do better with more than 16GB of ram -

 

[Tup3x]

The 155H seems to do better with more than 16GB of ram -

Not really surprised. Assuming 50/50 split, 8GB is not RAM enough for games.

 

[eek2121]

It is possible for OLED laptops to improve battery life greatly from where they are now.

OLED tech is improving at a rapid pace, much faster than LCDs perhaps. Samsung Display for instance, releases a new OLED material set almost every year. The Galaxy S24 series just debuted their latest M13 AMOLED technology. Each new technology brings much improved power efficiency. Unlike smartphones, it seems laptops are much slower in adopting these new technologies.
View attachment 93104

Google Pixel 8 Pro display deep dive: Brain finally meets brawn

What happens when Google uses premium components?

www.xda-developers.com

Aside from OLED materials sets, another thing that can help improve power efficiency in OLEDs is the use of LTPO/oxide TFT + VRR. This has already been implemented in smartphones with great success. LTPO/oxide TFTs are inherently more power efficient than LTPS in normal OLEDs, and it also enables dynamic VRR. This means the display refresh rate can go dynamically adjust to suit the content on the screen, going as low as 1 Hz when displaying static content.

Aside from hardware, software features can also help improve power efficiency. Look at Asus' Lumina OLED. They have implemented some special software techniques, which reduces OLED power consumption.

Thanks, you were able to provide more details at what I did a poor job attempting to summarize.

I'm going to settle this nonsense.

Intel 14th-gen Meteor Lake: architecture, specs, and performance

Intel's 14-gen Meteor Lake processors are here and will soon start appearing in laptops. Here's everything you need to know about them.

finance.yahoo.com

That's the official number. Back in full launches such as Skylake, they mentioned over 800 design wins.

I have some doubt that Meteorlake will reach 230 since Raptorlake U takes the low end, but 3x MTL is NOT a small launch to those of you that can't see things unbiased.

To be fair, the market in the skylake era was very different from today’s market.

Have we seen any actual leaks (read: not MLID, RGT, etc) regarding Lunar Lake performance? I have been very busy with life lately, and have not been able to keep up.

LNL vs. Zen 5 should be interesting.

 

[coercitiv]

Have we seen any actual leaks (read: not MLID, RGT, etc) regarding Lunar Lake performance? I have been very busy with life lately, and have not been able to keep up.

None so far, people are just counting MTL design wins out of boredom.

 

[igor_kavinski]

LNL vs. Zen 5 should be interesting.

Would be something if LNL posts higher or even matches Zen 5's ST GB6 score.

 

[SiliconFly]

Would be something if LNL posts higher or even matches Zen 5's ST GB6 score.

LNL not so much I think. Very doubtful at such low TDPs.

 

[Glo.]

Would be something if LNL posts higher or even matches Zen 5's ST GB6 score.

There is 0% chance for that.

 

[igor_kavinski]

There is 0% chance for that.

Then maybe clock for clock IPC...

There must be something really good about it coz adroc didn't say it was crap like all the other Intel stuff

 

[trivik12]

Most intel offerings are directly from manufacturers while AMD s ones are all from retailers, manufacturers offerings of Hawk Point are not listed even if they also sell those AMD s devices, so that s a hint that MTL is not more common than Hawk point despite the latter being launched later.

its available at all major retailers here. Best Buy has 15 MTL laptops available for sale. That is not uncommon at all.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Only laptop there with the best balance of price and features: https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-ome...-1tb-ssd-shadow-black/6569024.p?skuId=6569024

Everything else looks either too anemic or overpriced.

 

[eek2121]

LNL not so much I think. Very doubtful at such low TDPs.

TDP rarely matters for 1T performance and power limits never matter unless you are talking about < 35W. (Example: my 7950x rarely pulls more than 20-30W for 1T, and my chip is exceptionally low quality)

Also, a point of clarification, I was referring specifically to Zen 5 in mobile devices, I thought that would have been obvious, but I guess not.

 

[FlameTail]

Will LNL iGPU beat Apple M3 iGpu

 

[igor_kavinski]

Will LNL iGPU beat Apple M3 iGpu

That would be bad if it doesn't. Would force their marketing to rack their brains on how to make it look good to the average user interested in thin and light laptop. I suppose they will tout how such users can get into gaming easily coz LNL can run X number of games that M3 can't.

 

[Hitman928]

TDP rarely matters for 1T performance and power limits never matter unless you are talking about < 35W. (Example: my 7950x rarely pulls more than 20-30W for 1T, and my chip is exceptionally low quality)

Also, a point of clarification, I was referring specifically to Zen 5 in mobile devices, I thought that would have been obvious, but I guess not.

LNL is designed for 9 - 15 W, hence his comment. It can go up to 28 W but that's not it's target power range.

Edit: Though who knows what kind of PL2/PL1 scheme it will have so max boost may not be restricted by the power limit but sustained 1t might be.