Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[Kocicak]

WHO HE?

 

[A///]

with easter being around the corner, I'm guessing Jesus.

 

[Kocicak]

Jesus? The whole Jesus business seems highly questionable to me...

 

[A///]

Jesus? The whole Jesus business seems highly questionable to me...

Don't follow religion myself, but it's a bizarre concept. Not as bizarre as the tale of a man sized rabbit that leaves eggs for children to find that contain sweets and charms. Bunnies turn into rabbits, which in turn make decent stews and light roasts. That is their purpose.

 

[Kocicak]

a man sized rabbit that leaves eggs for children to find

We do not have those rabbits here, boys and men beat girls and women (whip their asses with braided decorated whips from willow branches) and we get eggs as a reward. It is a very nice custom.

 

[A///]

We do not have those rabbits here, boys and men beat girls and women (whip their asses with braided decorated whips from willow branches) and we get eggs as a reward. Is it a very nice custom.

Ah you are Czech then?

 

[Kocicak]

Yes.

 

[A///]

Yes.

Such a shame to destroy willow new growth for that. I love willow trees, except the one with small fuzzy flowers. I'd plant on here if I knew it wouldn't eventually destroy the water and gas mains.

 

[Kocicak]

I believe there are trees specifically grown for that and the whips are commonly sold, it is not like that all men destroy all willows in the spring.

 

[uzzi38]

So you are guessing.. what credibility do you have ?

I'll happily vouch for Bionic if it makes you feel better.

 

[eek2121]

From what I can tell, MTL's saving grace might be close to RDNA3 iGPU performance (I'll assume 70% as close) and it's neural accelerator that might be fully compatible with the rumored AI features of Windows 12. Power consumption? Let's hope it's no worse than 12th gen mobile.

Well, It is on a far better process than Raptor Lake, so it should definitely consume less power than previous gen.

I hope Intel uses Meteor Lake/Arrow Lake to pivot hard into perf/watt. It would be great for AMD to finally have some genuine competition.

 

[coercitiv]

I hope Intel uses Meteor Lake/Arrow Lake to pivot hard into perf/watt.

Don't spend your hope so easily. Intel will not prioritize perf/watt until they feel comfortable with their performance advantage. The only scenario where we might finally see a shift back to efficiency is some breakthrough like AMD had with v-cache that comes with thermal/power limitations attached. So think 3D chips that offer much better performance but force us back to lower voltages/temps. I doubt MTL will see such type of limitation though.

 

[IntelUser2000]

Do you know if MLID's IPC claims for Meteor Lake are true? He claimed 10-15% IPC improvement, which seems kind of high for a Golden Cove derivative.

The changes are apparently so little even the CPUID doesn't change.

If anything you should ask MLID why he believes 10-15% perf/clock gain is correct. Even in that leaked document it talked about a potential overall performance gain, which will not apply for 5GHz+ desktop level chips and high power laptop chips such as -H. So that's a combination of clock frequency and uarch.

This seems like a minor version of "Zen 4 29% IPC!!!!" to me.

 

[mikk]

I can't wait for some real tests from MTL. As a reminder many people here underestimated Raptor Lake-S and laughed about the ST+MT improvement claims from some people like MLID.

 

[Exist50]

If anything you should ask MLID why he believes 10-15% perf/clock gain is correct

And that's already his revised-downward number. Would I be too optimistic to hope people start ignoring him after yet another completely wrong prediction?

 

[A///]

I believe there are trees specifically grown for that and the whips are commonly sold, it is not like that all men destroy all willows in the spring.

Willows are very fast growing. There's many types but the hybrid willow is the fastest I know of and gains several meters a year. Weeping willow is more common and its new growth each spring is rapid. Perfect enough for making whips.

 

[msj10]

Lunar Lake

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638759662207094786

 

[Exist50]

Lunar Lake

https://twitter.com/x/status/1638759662207094786

This is where the fun begins.

 

[msj10]

another leak from this account
LGA1851 will support MTL/ARL and a 2026 product which I guess is Panther Lake

https://twitter.com/x/status/1636872728371159042

 

[jpiniero]

Guess that means Arrow/Meteor isn't coming out until 2025. Although maybe it's early 2025.

 

[A///]

Incorrect. It looks like Intel is lengthening socket time to 2.5-3 generations. intel isn't gonna sit on their asses until 2025.

 

[witeken]

Intel uses Lunar Lake to pivot hard into perf/watt. It would be great for Apple to finally have some genuine competition.

FTFY

 

[jpiniero]

Incorrect. It looks like Intel is lengthening socket time to 2.5-3 generations. intel isn't gonna sit on their asses until 2025.

What other options do they have? They are going to release Raptor Lake Refresh later this year. Going 15-18 months between releases would be rough but they could always Refresh the Refresh.

 

[mikk]

Maybe 18A is for Beyond given that Meteor Lake and 20A+N3 in the same chart was misleading. External and Lunar is one the left, 18A and beyond on the right. Meteor Lake and Intel 4 on the left, Arrow Lake and external N3 on the right, additionally 20A in the middle. There is some paddern.

 

[A///]

What other options do they have? They are going to release Raptor Lake Refresh later this year. Going 15-18 months between releases would be rough but they could always Refresh the Refresh.

You're placing too much emphasis on rumors being true and then parlaying that speculation into real timelines.