Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes Discussion Threads

[Tigerick]

As Hot Chips 34 starting this week, Intel will unveil technical information of upcoming Meteor Lake (MTL) and Arrow Lake (ARL), new generation platform after Raptor Lake. Both MTL and ARL represent new direction which Intel will move to multiple chiplets and combine as one SoC platform.

MTL also represents new compute tile that based on Intel 4 process which is based on EUV lithography, a first from Intel. Intel expects to ship MTL mobile SoC in 2023.

ARL will come after MTL so Intel should be shipping it in 2024, that is what Intel roadmap is telling us. ARL compute tile will be manufactured by Intel 20A process, a first from Intel to use GAA transistors called RibbonFET.



Comparison of upcoming Intel's U-series CPU: Core Ultra 100U, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

Model	Code-Name	Date	TDP	Node	Tiles	Main Tile	CPU	LP E-Core	LLC	GPU	Xe-cores
Core Ultra 100U	Meteor Lake	Q4 2023	15 - 57 W	Intel 4 + N5 + N6	4	tCPU	2P + 8E	2	12 MB	Intel Graphics	4
?	Lunar Lake	Q4 2024	17 - 30 W	N3B + N6	2	CPU + GPU & IMC	4P + 4E	0	8 MB	Arc	8
?	Panther Lake	Q1 2026 ?	?	Intel 18A + N3E	3	CPU + MC	4P + 8E	4	?	Arc	12

Comparison of die size of Each Tile of Meteor Lake, Arrow Lake, Lunar Lake and Panther Lake

	Meteor Lake	Arrow Lake (20A)	Arrow Lake (N3B)	Arrow Lake Refresh (N3B)	Lunar Lake	Panther Lake
Platform	Mobile H/U Only	Desktop Only	Desktop & Mobile H&HX	Desktop Only	Mobile U Only	Mobile H
Process Node	Intel 4	Intel 20A	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	TSMC N3B	Intel 18A
Date	Q4 2023	Q1 2025 ?	Desktop-Q4-2024 H&HX-Q1-2025	Q4 2025 ?	Q4 2024	Q1 2026 ?
Full Die	6P + 8P	6P + 8E ?	8P + 16E	8P + 32E	4P + 4E	4P + 8E
LLC	24 MB	24 MB ?	36 MB ?	?	8 MB	?
tCPU	66.48
tGPU	44.45
SoC	96.77
IOE	44.45
Total	252.15

Intel Core Ultra 100 - Meteor Lake



As mentioned by Tomshardware, TSMC will manufacture the I/O, SoC, and GPU tiles. That means Intel will manufacture only the CPU and Foveros tiles. (Notably, Intel calls the I/O tile an 'I/O Expander,' hence the IOE moniker.)

 

[mikk]

Would you like me to remove the "(any?)" portion of my post? Is that what you are all in a huff about because Tiger Lake was announced in August and launched Sept 2? Which is quite close to my "They regularly launch at the end of August" comment. Are you mad about my generalized statement summing up the last couple decades of Intel launches being off by a measly 2 days for one chip?

August is close to September who would have thought. And October is close to September. Tigerlake-U launched in September you have been proven wrong. You don't like that right? What's next? Only a mid September launch is fine for you or what. They don't regulary launch at the end of August, this another false statement from you. Maybe you should think twice before posting something like that.

 

[dullard]

They don't regulary launch at the end of August, this another false statement from you. Maybe you should think twice before posting something like that.

Ok, I'll ignore Comet Lake (Aug 21, 2019), Kaby Lake (Aug 30, 2016), and the other August launches (Sky Lake, etc.) for you then.

Would a histogram be a better way of discussing this? What chips go into the histogram? Desktop, mobile, server, refreshes (mild or significant), etc? How fine of a histogram interval? Are we using announcement dates, launch dates, dates first available? I'll let you choose. Of course, I'll keep the major August launches listed above out of the histogram for you since chips like Sky Lake must not count.

I'll give you a hint. Major conferences are places where companies like to announce new products. For example, Hot Chips has been in August since 1990 I think.

 

[eek2121]

Does it matter? It is launching by Q4. Laptops will be available in Q4. This was confirmed by MSI. MSI may or may not have this laptop available day 1, so it does nothing except give us a sense of the latest date MTL-P will launch.

 

[eek2121]

Dont get your hopes too high on MTL...

Too late.

 

[Geddagod]

it's hard to keep track of your wall sized posts about what mlid said, ate that day or how many times he farted in a video.

When did I quote MLID? At worst, I'm a Raichu leak fan.
Don't know why you are so obsessed with me as to bringing my name into a bunch of your comments, when I haven't even talked to you or about you (or really anywhere in this forum at least) in like a week because of exams. It's weird, half the time you just bring me up with no context what so ever, and then write some random message in context as an excuse for the comment to exist.
If you don't like my "wall sized posts" just don't read them, the people who I am responding to with my "wall size posts" don't have an issue with responding back to me.

 

[A///]

Does it matter? It is launching by Q4. Laptops will be available in Q4. This was confirmed by MSI. MSI may or may not have this laptop available day 1, so it does nothing except give us a sense of the latest date MTL-P will launch.

this is always a given. back to school rush and if it ain't that it's the holiday rush. economy might be in the crapper but people are still going to spend on long term luxuries like laptops. yeah people who needed one got one already but the little tykes going into high school or uni will need one be it a windows or apple laptop that'll see them through the next 3-4 years. sales won't be as sweet like the pandemic but they'll be decent. it's hard to say without being close to the next quarter report or having sales figures like intel's bean counters do, but there will be a resurgance in consumer purchasing in the pc sector. this ain't the days the quad core intels anymore. amd is pushing into intel's kiester without lubrication and intel wants to do the same to amd but is struggling. meteor lake may not be hot crap it's intended to be because who knows what gelsinger was raving about a couple years back but arrow lake looks like a formidible force and if jensen wasn't talking out of his drugged out behind then intel's nodes may be in better shape than us laypersons assume it is. who knows maybe amd will do the downward dog again in the very near future.

 

[A///]

Intel 4 is a different beast. Take a look at the Meteor Lake leaks. Intel is adding more cores and also splitting up the die while also raising the base clocks by more than 80%. While we don’t know the PL1/2, these should be 28W parts unless Intel is…being Intel.

These chips are going to be game changers for Intel and x86 in general. I can’t wait to see more. This is the type of chip I would love to see in my next laptop.

80%? you believe intel figured out how to run dlv whatever that stuff is called on desktop processors? you lot need to stop drinking the mlid and raichu energy drinks.

 

[dullard]

Does it matter? It is launching by Q4. Laptops will be available in Q4. This was confirmed by MSI. MSI may or may not have this laptop available day 1, so it does nothing except give us a sense of the latest date MTL-P will launch.

It matters only a little bit for companies depending on if they hit their desired launch dates. A few weeks here or there probably isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

I find it more hilarious that mikk is trying to reject a generalized statement with an outlier of n=1. It is like me claiming that hailstones are generally less than 1 kg and mikk coming in and beating his chest because he can find one record of a hailstone than was 1.02 kg. That doesn't reject that by far most hailstones are generally less than 1 kg. It is just interesting to watch how far down this rabbit hole he is willing to go. He probably could find even more hailstones that are massive, but still most hailstones are under 1 kg.

 

[igor_kavinski]

Guys!

MTL and Intel 4 no more vaporware.

MSI MTL laptop all ready to launch.

Intel get big confidence boost.

Intel may have something to counter Dragon Range laptops, or at least, sway people to their shiny new CPUs with their catchphrases "Intel Inside" and "Core ULTRA".

All reasons to rejoice.

Stop bickering, gosh!

 

[igor_kavinski]

i lost the thread of conversation because of gedda's long winded rants but what the hell is the 2 e cores on the soc tile for? the 8+6+2 for example?

Shhh...don't tell anyone.

Those 2 cores in the SoC, they listen in on everything, even when you think the laptop is sleeping.

Even when the laptop is powered off and there is some juice left in the battery.

NSA, man.

They gotta stop the terrorists.

So people are not afraid to come out of their homes.

And shoot their neighbors for loud music or loud kids or barking dogs.

NRA has Intel shares, man.

 

[A///]

igor you been huffing bananas again?

 

[Geddagod]

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They really tested MT instead of ST performance :\

 

[A///]

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They really tested MT instead of ST performance :\

it's an es which doesn't tell us anything other than extrapolating data if we knew final clocks. point of interest in it being an es laptop their vpu performance shown in that one video from 2 days ago might be slower than the final product. only time will tell now.

 

[nicalandia]

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They really tested MT instead of ST performance :\

Good luck making those 2 e-L cores make any difference in MT

According to the CBR23 run it did 4200 points in MT at 21%, at 100% should be about 20,000 points...

 

[Geddagod]

it's an es which doesn't tell us anything other than extrapolating data if we knew final clocks. point of interest in it being an es laptop their vpu performance shown in that one video from 2 days ago might be slower than the final product. only time will tell now.

RCW PPC would be cool to know.

 

[uzzi38]

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They really tested MT instead of ST performance :\

You'd be pretty disappointed if you saw ST performance, it's nothing groundbreaking.

What makes MTL interesting is the iGPU, if you care about CPU perf gains wait for ARL, seriously.

 

[A///]

RCW PPC would be cool to know.

there's been a lot of discussion on redwood and crestmont cores. if all the bs about intel figuring out dlvr is any true and that's a stretch short of a miracle along with their advanced packaging and gaafet coming in line with future nodes then hoh hoh hoh santta's here.

meteor lake seems like a dud performance wise much like zen 4 is. it's here to set up a future for both x86 makers. my internal timeline of when gaafet bspd and dlvr become the standard across intel's range is jumbled up but I have no doubt gelsinger the gunslinger isn't getting intel's future in order, not all credit to him of course but tsmc better be looking in their rear view mirror to see gelsinger coming up on em snarling like a bull. amd can throw as many red tomaters as they want like the tomatina festival in bouni at intel with more cores to keep them at bay but eventually amd must also hunker down and deliver a respectful product. zen 5 will be a late 1h or early to mid 2h 24 product and arrow lake is a late q3 product. by then ddr5 prices will have normalised and board prices... the aibs can shove it where the sun don't shine but people won't be whining about prices then. both will be compelling products, who sels how much is up to anyone's guess.

 

[hemedans]

You'd be pretty disappointed if you saw ST performance, it's nothing groundbreaking.

What makes MTL interesting is the iGPU, if you care about CPU perf gains wait for ARL, seriously.

Is there a thread for MTL igpu?

 

[hemedans]

.

 

[Geddagod]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1664263418902380545

Welp

 

[A///]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1664263418902380545

Welp

This was expected. this works out better than what most of us were assuming was going to happen not long ago; which is to say the two generations side by side. based on the crap coming out about raptor's refresh it'll be a n a ok stop gapper until arrow and outpace zen 4 but no the 3d chips. meteor on laptop with its powerful igpu is way more important than it being on desktop. intel's best recourse is the mobile market where they have the upper handed in volume and being able to flood the market with their processor and getting favorable build qualities in laptop chasis from aibs where it may be a mystery meat concoction for amd branded requpped laptops.

 

[Hougy]

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They really tested MT instead of ST performance :\

It must be sad for Intel that they renamed all their nodes to try to more accurately show how comparable they are to the competitor's, but HWINFO, and probably cpu-z too, keeps showing Intel 4 as 7nm 😂. What do you think they will show for 20A and 18A? 5nm?

 

[A///]

The chip reports itself. Software parses the data. That's all. This is common knowledge 101. nm mean nothing and haven't meant nothing in years for any of the three major fabs. density varies greatly between each "node" from each manufacturer down to levels within a "node". you can ring out amazing performance on an old node with higher power draw to be determined and can also get crappy performance on a bleeding edge node. too many variables.

 

[eek2121]

80%? you believe intel figured out how to run dlv whatever that stuff is called on desktop processors? you lot need to stop drinking the mlid and raichu energy drinks.

We have actual leaks, my dude. This particular chip (below) is "only" clocked 63% higher than the equivalent Raptor Lake chip while containing 2 more "e" cores (rumored to be on the SoC). The PL2 of 28W is unchanged. This isn't even the highest clocked SKU, and it appears to be an ES chip.

Now imagine this chip in a 2 lb ultrabook:

Spoiler

I'm fairly pessimistic myself, but I can also do basic math. Unless there are IPC regressions, this looks to be a decent offering by Intel. We will see when the reviews and such drop, however.

 

[Exist50]

there's been a lot of discussion on redwood and crestmont cores. if all the bs about intel figuring out dlvr is any true and that's a stretch short of a miracle along with their advanced packaging and gaafet coming in line with future nodes then hoh hoh hoh santta's here.

DLVR is very real, but it doesn't merit such hype. It's analogous to FIVR. Useful, but not groundbreaking.

Unless there are IPC regressions, this looks to be a decent offering by Intel.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's some memory latency sensitive test that shows a regression. Wouldn't really be the core's fault per se, but hard to isolate as well.