Intel Optane 900P

[IntelUser2000]

Something I forgot. Did Anantech test the Optane via CPU Direct PCI-E or via their bridge?

I cant find any mentions in the article.

It should not make a meaningful difference in terms of latency. Bandwidth would be better if you are intending to use it as a RAID setup or if the chipset is heavily used. Hops matter for super low latency systems as with QPI or memory, but even NVMe devices are orders of magnitude higher in latency that it becomes insignificant.

From TH:

Intel will only have four models ready during the initial rollout, the 480GB U.2 will come later in the year. There are two model numbers for the U.2 drives, but we only have the specific numbers for the 280GB drives. One will ship with a standard U.2 cable and the other ships with an M.2 to U.2 adapter.

According to leaked roadmaps, they have not only higher capacities coming but different models as well.

 

[dbrons]

I received a couple links with info about the Optane drives in an email from the Intel tech support guy I spoke to this morning. Here's the user guide:
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/s...-ssds/Intel_Optane_900P_InstallationGuide.pdf

installation instructions:
https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...25736/memory-and-storage/enthusiast-ssds.html

 

[Edrick]

Something I forgot. Did Anantech test the Optane via CPU Direct PCI-E or via their bridge?

I cant find any mentions in the article.

AnandTech 2017 SSD Testbed
CPU Intel Xeon E3 1240 v5
Motherboard ASRock Fatal1ty E3V5 Performance Gaming/OC
Chipset Intel C232
Memory 4x 8GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR4-2400 CL15
Graphics AMD Radeon HD 5450, 1920x1200@60Hz
Software Windows 10 x64, version 1703
Linux kernel version 4.12, fio version 2.21

So they used the bridge as the Xeon E3 does not have PCI-E lanes for the SSD. I wonder if I can get better performance out of the CPU PCI-E lanes on my Sky-X system.

 

[evilpaul666]

I pre-ordered a 480GB AIC one off Newegg. It's still in pre-order status...has anyone had one shipped out to them yet?

 

[beginner99]

Are the actual tests done in steady-state or clean state? Since 3d xpoint doesn't suffer from steady-state that could be a huge point in favor of it.

 

[Billy Tallis]

AnandTech 2017 SSD Testbed
CPU Intel Xeon E3 1240 v5
Motherboard ASRock Fatal1ty E3V5 Performance Gaming/OC
Chipset Intel C232
Memory 4x 8GB G.SKILL Ripjaws DDR4-2400 CL15
Graphics AMD Radeon HD 5450, 1920x1200@60Hz
Software Windows 10 x64, version 1703
Linux kernel version 4.12, fio version 2.21

So they used the bridge as the Xeon E3 does not have PCI-E lanes for the SSD. I wonder if I can get better performance out of the CPU PCI-E lanes on my Sky-X system.

Actually, I have the GPU in the PCIe x4 slot off the chipset and test all PCIe SSDs in the x16 slot off the CPU.

 

[dbrons]

Well all are out of stock at NewEgg, so I decided to go ahead and order the 960 pro 512. I plan to put my system together on Saturday and I'll have the Samsung Friday.
I can always add an optane drive later on

 

[Bier667]

Actually, I have the GPU in the PCIe x4 slot off the chipset and test all PCIe SSDs in the x16 slot off the CPU.

Any performance penalties by replacing them? I mean any wise guy would drop the dGPU in the x16 CPU-Lane Slot and the 900P in the x4 PCH Slot.

And when to expect Intel RST 16 with VMD Support for Coffelake?

Thx for the anwers

 

[Edrick]

Actually, I have the GPU in the PCIe x4 slot off the chipset and test all PCIe SSDs in the x16 slot off the CPU.

Good to know. Thank you for the clarification.

By any chance did you also test the 900p off the chipset lanes to see if there was a performance penalty?

 

[evilpaul666]

I emailed them earlier about availability and this was the response.

Hello Paul, we are working on fulfilling orders when stock come back in the order it is received. The 30th is an estimated time we were given by the vendor however it can change.-Nick

Did people who preordered Coffee Lake get there's the day Newegg got the first shipment, or do they allow more preorders than they will initially have?

 

[dbrons]

I emailed them earlier about availability and this was the response. Did people who preordered Coffee Lake get there's the day Newegg got the first shipment, or do they allow more preorders than they will initially have?

The optane drives at NewEgg are "out of stock" and not available to pre-order..

 

[evilpaul666]

I pre-ordered one on the 27th when it was possible to do so.

 

[dbrons]

I pre-ordered one on the 27th when it was possible to do so.

yes one of the versions was avail for pre-order for a couple days I think one of the U.2
Anyway, just didn't work for me as I need my drive by friday Please let us know when you receive and how it goes.

 

[Edrick]

Let the price gouging begin!!!

$717 on Newegg this morning for the 480GB version.
$457 on Amazon for the 280GB version, and $703 for the 480GB version.

Screw it, I have been waiting for days to find availability so I purchased one today (even with the markup). I am excited to see how this will impact my system.

 

[coercitiv]

I am excited to see how this will impact my system.

You better have some specifically intensive loads on your system, or else the perceived impact will be... none.

 

[gdansk]

It's very impressive. It's such an improvement that I think I'll wait for the next generation to be safe.

 

[Edrick]

You better have some specifically intensive loads on your system, or else the perceived impact will be... none.

Is that your opinion? Here is what the reviewers over a TH had to say: (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-optane-ssd-900p-3d-xpoint,5292-3.html)

The Intel Optane SSD 900P delivered the best user experience we've ever had. We built a new system to test the drive in BAPCo's SYSmark 2014, and that required a fresh install of the operating system, drivers, and a few pieces of software. I'd say the installation process was truly magic, but that sounds too cliche.

You will see and feel a performance benefit just by using the Optane SSD 900P as your operating system drive. The feel of the system changes even if you’re replacing a high-performance NVMe SSD. You will notice the increased responsiveness immediately and then gradually become accustomed to it. In our experience, you will take the performance for granted until you work on a slower PC. Then you'll wish it had an Optane SSD.

I will let you all know the results when I get mine in. I expect to see gains in OS load time, application load time, game load time, .NET compiles, and Premiere Pro/Photoshop editing.

 

[evilpaul666]

Let the price gouging begin!!!

$717 on Newegg this morning for the 480GB version.
$457 on Amazon for the 280GB version, and $703 for the 480GB version.

Screw it, I have been waiting for days to find availability so I purchased one today (even with the markup). I am excited to see how this will impact my system.

Those are 0.3%, 14%, and you can do the math for the last one...

 

[dbrons]

yeah I got the instock notice from NewEgg today but out of stock by the time I got home. I'm kinda glad I decided on the 960 Pro. got it at a real good price and no tax. I'll probably add an Optane drive in six months or so when prices settle down.

 

[Edrick]

Those are 0.3%, 14%, and you can do the math for the last one...

Not sure about your math, but my math tells me $599 marked up to $717 is closer to 20%, not 0.3%.

 

[evilpaul666]

I thought it was 699, you're correct. I need to go to bed.

 

[coercitiv]

I will let you all know the results when I get mine in. I expect to see gains in OS load time, application load time, game load time, .NET compiles, and Premiere Pro/Photoshop editing.

I expect you'll see gains in .NET compiles. My opinion says everything else will be a wash as long as you use fresh installs on both systems when comparing.

I can see the 900p being objectively (a lot) faster than modern NVME flash based SSDs under both low QD random workloads and heavy mixed workloads where performance matters most for professionals, but have you seen the consumer app benchmarks in the same review? I'll include one pic bellow, the rest are similar in terms of gains: from games to Adobe products and Microsoft products, performance is a wash.

Spoiler: Adobe PS Heavy Workload

The author of the review is obviously excited about this product, heck I'm jacked up too and I haven't even had the opportunity to play with one of them. However, let's not ignore past experience & knowledge, most importantly the way some of the fastest NVME drives made PC systems feel when compared with old gen SSDs. They too brought healthy jumps in random and sustained performance, yet if you take a look at the Samsung 960 Pro and 960 Evo reviews from the same author, you'll see no subjective performance evaluation in those reviews, no emphasis on QD1 - QD2 random performance. Why is that, why has this become readily apparent with the 900p review and cannot be easily portrayed by using consumer application benchmarks? Why is the reviewer initiating this conversation now when we've known this for years, that most benchmarks used to show a difference between modern drives are not conclusive when it comes to consumer specific workloads and experience?

Anecdotally I recently installed Win 10 on my CFL machine using a Samsung 840 Pro as temporary system drive until I get a modern NVME drive: I was surprised just how fast and responsive the system felt compared to my previous experience with the drive from years ago. Surely the fact that most software I use now has been heavily optimized in the years that have passed and that fresh installs are always innately faster should not matter in my subjective evaluation of the 840 Pro, right?

I'm pretty sure you'll enjoy the 900p though, and soon enough find situations where it's performance truly shines. I expect it to show it's true potential under combined loads from different real world apps, or anything that can't be hidden by caching and/or processing times. My opinion is it won't be about doing things faster in light loads, but rather about not slowing down under the heavier loads, a fortunate blend of first class performance and consistent performance. Looking forward to find out more about your real world experience with the product.

 

[beginner99]

I expect you'll see gains in .NET compiles. My opinion says everything else will be a wash as long as you use fresh installs on both systems when comparing.

True but Toms clearly states that they test in clean state and not steady-state. For flash ssds that can have a huge impact on actual performance and in fact will be the performance you will mostly experience unless you secure-erase and clean install every 3 month or so.

If you look at the AT benches, the Destroyer puts the drives in steady-state and Optane wins. Similar for heavy. In light, drives are clean and hence the SSDs are way faster than in the 2 other states. The optane drive has +/- the same data-rate in all tests because it doesn't lose a lot of its performance after short usage time like flash ssds. The real value of Optane drive is it's steady state performance. You get clean-install performance all the time. And we all know that makes a huge difference.

 

[coercitiv]

True but Toms clearly states that they test in clean state and not steady-state. For flash ssds that can have a huge impact on actual performance and in fact will be the performance you will mostly experience unless you secure-erase and clean install every 3 month or so.

Secure-erase?! What are you talking about? For good consistent performance all one needs is space provisioning.

My remark regarding fresh installs was only in the context of comparing the new 900p drive with the older 960 Pro: since the 900p will be evaluated using a fresh install, so should the other drive. Same build, same driver stack, same software, as fair as it gets.

If you look at the AT benches, the Destroyer puts the drives in steady-state and Optane wins.

The Destroyer writes 875GB to the disk. While it may put drives in steady state, how do you reckon this test is in any way relevant for consumer loads or most professional loads for that matter?

In light, drives are clean and hence the SSDs are way faster than in the 2 other states.

They're not necessarily clean, they are tested in both clean and full states... notice how Heavy and Light benchmarks have two performance bars for each drive? The 960 Pro almost matches the 900p while full in the Light test, with some provisioned space it would have no problem winning. It takes the Heavy test with 100+GB of written data in a short amount of time to see modern NVME SSDs fall behind the 900p.

The Light and Heavy tests are exactly the reason I told @Edrick that he won't see meaningful benefits in daily activity on 900p over 960 Pro. It takes mixed loads and concentrated heavy writes of tens of GB to see the 900p pull ahead of a 960 Pro. Starting apps, games or working with Adobe products does not fall into that category.

The real value of Optane drive is it's steady state performance. You get clean-install performance all the time. And we all know that makes a huge difference.

The real value of 900p is very high low QD random performance combined with amazing mixed read/write performance. Performance consistency is just the cherry on top.

As for clean-install performance, I don't think you understand why that happens. It's not the drive in it's clean state that makes the difference, at least not when properly configured, it's the myriad of loose ends in the OS from sequential build updates to changed drivers and all kinds of software that may or may not be used anymore in a fresh install. Given enough time the OS itself ends up in a metaphorical "steady state" of it's own.

 

[Edrick]

The real value of 900p is very high low QD random performance combined with amazing mixed read/write performance. Performance consistency is just the cherry on top.

Forgive my lack of knowledge of QD depth, but I thought that most workstation/desktop level tasks were in the low QD range (where the 900p shines). And that higher QD depth workloads (which most SSDs are benchmarked at) were more server task orientated.

From the same article:

Even with our QD1 slope, the Optane SSD 900P dominates the other products. The excellent low-QD performance scaling is important because with today’s applications you almost never exceed QD8. With flash, and now faster-than-flash technology, the response time is so quick that you can't stack up enough data requests to increase the queue depth, even with heavy multitasking.

Regardless, I love new technology and I bought because I wanted to see what all the hype was about. I will still use my Samsung 960 Pro as a data drive.