Intel or AMD? plus some other oc'ing questions

[Polydeuces]

I'm looking to build myself a computer and I want it to have an 800mhz processor. I was planing on going with a pIII simply because of the name, but I'd like to find out more about my choices. Money is an object here and an AMD is less expensive. What are the pro's and con's of each chip? Am I actually better off with a Pentium or is an AMD just as good?
Also, would getting a slower processor, say a 733 (or whatever), and overclocking it be a better option? Is overclocking a good idea? I'm going to be spending some hard earned money here and I don't want to stress my CPU to death if it's going to reduce it's life by noticible amounts. Another thing is, I've never overclocked a chip before - is it something that's easy to do? I have two 133's sitting on my desk that I could practice with, would that be a good idea?
Thanks for all of your help!

 

[NOS440]

Well I will probably get some heat over this but the heck with the AMD lovers.


Anyway's I would highly recomend you buy a P-3 700 mhz and use either the ASUS P3V4X or CUV4X motherboard with a descent cooler say a Alpha or a globlal win you should have no problem in reaching 933 mhz and still have everything except the CPU running in stock level. I have been overclocking processors for 5 years and have never experience any adverse effects from it. I also tried the Athlon's last year and I find them to be unstable when overclocked (this was my experience) also I feel that if your new to this you will find it much easier to overclock the P-3 than a Athlon. The other thing you will find is that over all system cost is less with a P-3 the motherboards that I mentioned only cost 100 to 110$. A Athlon board cost 150$ and up and also you will need a top notch Power Supply to run a Athlon. where any descent PS will do fine with a P-3.

So I guess what I'm saying is think this over well. Also the P-3 is a better gaming Platform then the Athlon Classic and About Equel with the New Thunderbird Athlon.

 

[cdrakejr]

Everyone has their personal preferences and there are pros and cons.
I think looking at some of the reviews that have been done will give you some insight into the performance issue, and then you can make an informed decision about what is best for you.

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q2/000605/index.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/00q2/000619/index.html
http://www.gamepc.com/reviews/hardware_review.asp?review=duron&page=1
http://www.pcmech.com/article.htm?duron-vs-celeron
http://www.planethardware.com/reviews/CPUs/Celeron700
http://www.arstechnica.com/reviews/2q00/duron/duron-1.html
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1252
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1261

 

[NOS440]

cdrakejr thanks for the links I have already read most of them. But they really help solidify my statements. That was real good of you to give the guy your time to send him reading.

Oh what I don't understand is why the Celeron vs the Duran this guy's not buying a Celery or a duran. Or is this to delude the truth ???

 

[DDad]

Well, IMO opinion the only way to go is an Athlon- you'll get more overall for the same $. Either which way you go you'll have a FAST machine
Sheer Bang for the buck is the Athlon Tbird- if you read up on the subject you'll find out that overall it beats Intels except for those using Rambus memory. Biggest Problem IMO is it may (or may not) be easily O/Cable.
Overclockability of the PIII's is well known, however you start seeing diminshing returns once you get above 800. The higher you go, the more you'll spend (on coolers and other stuff), and the chances of going higher than what your peripherals can stand increases

 

[Insane3D]

Another vote for a Athlon/T-Bird...

NOS440: It is actually the "Duron", not "Duran". I think you might be thinking of the 80's group, Duran Duran...

 

[cdrakejr]

NOS440,

No where does Polydeuces limit the options, simply Intel or AMD. Like most thinking people he is leaving his options open until he has factual information upon which to base his decision. He clearly states he is leaving his options open.

Since you've read the reviews you realize that two of them are Thunderbird reviews, and that the Duron reviews all include several other processors to give comparisons across the spectrum of what's available. Which is what Polydeuces is asking for.

Polydeuce,

In case your wondering about NOS440 and my exchanges, you can get some insight from the "Intel fans: Word on Intel's plans for a new PIII" post in this forum.

 

[NOS440]

cdrakejr


"I'm looking to build myself a computer and I want it to have an 800mhz processor. I was planing on going with a pIII simply because of the name"

This to me would mean he wants either a P-3 or a Athlon the Duron and Celeron are not available in a 800 mhz.

 

[Crypticburn]

Personally, I dont want a celery, durons look promising, Athlon T-birds and p3s are the way to go. I like the t-bird equally as much as the p3s, Since I would OC, I would go the route of the t-birds, with a huge PS, and oc'ed, these are nice, although I went dual CPU so I had to get p3s.... no dual t-bird yet.... just my opinion...

 

[NOS440]

Why would you think the T-Bird is a better Overclocker ? Just a question I'm curious

 

[Toxin]

get a 700e

it's a great price.. and good bang for the buck..

 

[Mem]

Polydeuces,even cheaper a 650E cB0 ,these babys will do 866mhz,more then fast enough for your buying 800mhz goal.Also people are still getting problems with those Via drivers not everyone,and some Hardware problems as well(no offense AMD users)it has put myself off,plus also saves me buying a new PSU.

 

[H82bbad]

I am new on this forum but I would have to say go with p3 I have had an athlon for the past8 months a trinity modified 500 it went to 750 1/2 cache no problems .however I am forced to run at 1 time agp and also forced into no superbypass wich wasnt available on my asus k7m.
so even though it has been stable it has been a pain in a$$ due to irq conflicts and poor gaming performance.if you are a gamer go to 3dmark and read the top scoring people what do they have in common?p3
with my geforce 2 with my athlon at 770 i score a whopping 4500 impressive huh (Not)maybe the thunderbird will be better (i hope so) but it still has to use the flakey via chip sets
so for the system I am putting together right now I picked the p3@700,cusl2mb(intel chipset)muskin pc133 rev2,and a vapochil case! hopefully by tuesday i will be over a gig! good luck with whatever you choose

 

[NOS440]

Hmmm another disatisfied soon to be back to Intel Computer Users. Well welcome back Buddy !!!!!!!!

 

[H82bbad]

Well I got my case and everything else now I am running at 1036 I have been 1050 but I have to lower my cas setting to 3 and it slows performance so I am running it at 1036 (7x148) this thing rocks 3dmark2000 score of 7581! up from a score of 4500 with my athlon 750-1/2 cache big difference huh I am going to pick up an 800 later this week and try for some more mhz wish me luck

 

[Syborg1211]

I am going to have to put my piece of mind into this subject. I am a die-hard Intel User. Just because i have someone in my family which works at intel does not mean my mind is influenced by family pride. The reason why thunderbirds cant overclock nearly as well as coppermines is that the athlons have a double pumped front-side-bus. Which means that it essentially runs at 200 mhz although it is 100mhz at two data per mhz. How does this affect overclocking? Most overclockers can only overclock by changing the fsb to make the multiplier do the work for them and raise the speed of the processor. So for every mhz you up the thunderbird's bus speed, you will be upping the speed by two, essentially. In case nobody understood what i just typed, i am just saying that COPPERMINES ARE BETTER!

 

[gerryadams]

go with the p3, I have a 600e stable at 1002 mhz. Faster than an equivalent amd for games, and no major problems so far.

 

[han888]

just my opinion, intel more stable to overlock, i have two system here!

p3-800E@992 ( cbo stepping) golden orb 1.75v
asus p3v4x
256 hyundai sdram pc133
asus v7700

ahtlon 700@750 golden orb 1.70
asus k7v
128 hyundai sdram pc133 + 2 x 64 meg elite mt
rivatnt m64

please dont blame me athlon user but that is the truth out here!
and i am not say athlon cpu is bad, i like ahtlon too, so i bought it!!

 

[Zephyr]

I'd go with the Tbird, since it is much more affoadable than the PIII, and at least just as good. If you're getting a socket A Athlon, make sure you get a mobo with jumpers for setting the multiplier. (Asus A7V without!!! onboard sound, check first if it has them just to be on the safe side)

I'd say that the Tbird o/c's at least just as well as PIII, just has to go about it a bit differently. AS somone pointed out the northbridge of the EV6 chipset is running DDR, making it difficult to o/c. However this does not affect multiplier o/c'ing in any way, which is IMO the best way to o/c anyway.

As for the 700e@1022 ... that would mean an FSB running at 146MHz... 'nuff said

 

[ShawnReeves]

Im sorry but we all know Athlon is the way to go....theres just no getting around it, Plain and simple, Case closed!
Intel Chips are kick ass dont get me wrong, But AMD has done their homework and then some for extra credit!

BumP 4 AMD!

 

[sandorski]

Duron 600, clock it to 800 or higher possibly, and you have the best bang/buck possible right now.

Note on stability: Duron/Thunderbird overclocks are more inherently stable than PIII/Cel2 if you do it right! When O/Cing a current AMD processor, adjust multiplier only, not fsb speed! By adjusting multiplier only, only the cpu gets overclocked, not everyother part in your system.

 

[Polydeuces]

Thanks everyone for all of your help! I'll make my mind up sooner or later by reviewing what all of you had to say.

 

[NOS440]

sandorski there ya go spreading lies if you over clock a P-3 from 100 FSB to 133 FSB with either a Intel 815 motherboard or a VIA133a motherboard the only thing OCed is the P-3 all other buses are in spec. please get the facts straight !!!!!!!!

 

[NOS440]

Just to clear something up Yes I have my FSB at 146 and its rock stable. You can't make this thing lock up until 148 to 150 fsb. we all know that 36.5 PCI bus and 73 AGP bus is no problem at all and hasn't been since the day's of tho 100 mhz pentuim. So whats the point of sheding a bunch of fear for nothing. Besides if the bus being out of spec bothers him just don't go over 133 fsb and all will be well 7 X 133 = 933 and this is almost garranteed. or 8 X 133 = 1GHZ and this is a sure thing too.

 

[Zephyr]

"or 8 X 133 = 1GHZ and this is a sure thing too."

*ROTFL* please stop it.. you're killing me here ...

ehm.. what I mean.. can you document any of your (*cough* cough* outrageous*cough*) statements?