Intel Reverse-Engineered AMD64

[Zebo]

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1561875,00.asp?kc=ETRSS02129TX1K0000532

 

[Mik3y]

wow...i never would have thought taht intel would stoop to sumthing as low as this...

 

[Zebo]

Bah they all do it Just shows who's the inoovator right now. Immitation is the sincerist form of flattery.

 

[zShowtimez]

Its old news that Intel was going to be using AMDs 64 bit extensions

 

[Jeff7181]

As if that was a surprise...

 

[SickBeast]

Hmmm...I was under the impression that AMD and intel had a cross-patent agreement which allowed them to share their innovations and technologies. I guess I was incorrect.

According to Microsoft, AMD's 64-bitness works better than intel's implementation. They also stated that even 32-bit applications get around an 8% boost from running on a 64-bit OS. Nice. :beer:

 

[RaynorWolfcastle]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Hmmm...I was under the impression that AMD and intel had a cross-patent agreement which allowed them to share their innovations and technologies. I guess I was incorrect.

According to Microsoft, AMD's 64-bitness works better than intel's implementation. They also stated that even 32-bit applications get around an 8% boost from running on a 64-bit OS. Nice. :beer:

No you're correct, they do have a cross-patenting agreement. That's how AMD got SSE/SSE2 and will have SSE3 at some point in the future.

 

[jswjimmy]

wow a p4 with a64
what is next p4 with 3dnow
or maybe a a64 with hypertreading

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: jswjimmy
wow a p4 with a64
what is next p4 with 3dnow
or maybe a a64 with hypertreading

An Athlon with SSE3?

 

[FelixDeCat]

"There's no shame in it," Halfhill said of the reverse-engineering. "AMD has reverse-engineered everything Intel has done for years."

 

[RobCur]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Bah they all do it Just shows who's the inoovator right now. Immitation is the sincerist form of flattery.

Bah, they all do it.
Just show who's the innovator now.
Imitation is the sincerist form of flattery!

 

[clarkey01]

yeah but P O ceo of Intel was like " No, who needs 64 bits, wont be needed till 08/09 for servers and desktop"

Hence the xeon 64 bit extensions on 1st of july is it ?

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
"There's no shame in it," Halfhill said of the reverse-engineering. "AMD has reverse-engineered everything Intel has done for years."

Yes, but why do they need to reverse-engineer if they have a cross-patent agreement?

 

[Com807877]

Originally posted by: Mik3y
wow...i never would have thought taht intel would stoop to sumthing as low as this...

I guess it's been going on for a while.... I mean Intel/AMD adopting MMX/3dnow/SSE/etc. Obviously they are borrowing from each other in at least one way.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: RaynorWolfcastle

Originally posted by: SickBeast
Hmmm...I was under the impression that AMD and intel had a cross-patent agreement which allowed them to share their innovations and technologies. I guess I was incorrect.

According to Microsoft, AMD's 64-bitness works better than intel's implementation. They also stated that even 32-bit applications get around an 8% boost from running on a 64-bit OS. Nice. :beer:

No you're correct, they do have a cross-patenting agreement. That's how AMD got SSE/SSE2 and will have SSE3 at some point in the future.

NO THEY STOLE IT OMGOMGOMG LETS CREATE A USELESS ISSUE to argue about! :disgust:

 

[Wingznut]

So, let me get this straight...

A market analyst has analyzed each instruction set and determined that Intel was able to reverse engineer AMD's cpu, work with Microsoft, and then mass manufacture them within ~14 months?

If you believe that, then you shouldn't be knocking Intel, because that is an absolutely miraculous feat. Intel RULES!!! There is no other semiconducter manufacturer that could pull off such an endeavor!

Btw, this is the same market analyst who recently wrote an article entitled "Why Prescott Sucks."

:roll:

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Wingznut
Btw, this is the same market analyst who recently wrote an article entitled "Why Prescott Sucks."

:roll:

Haha Wingznut, you're so intel-biased it's a miracle that anyone takes any of your posts seriously on the CPU forum. You even have a disclaimer in your signature. The prescott DOES suck, it's pretty much common knowledge. If it was such a great platform, then why did intel discontinue it? If it's so great, then why does it perform worse than the P4C at the same clock speed, despite having double the L2 cache? Finally, if it's such a hot chip, then why does the A64 beat it in every single benchmark that isn't encoding related?

Sorry, not to be harsh or anything, it's just I can't stand it when people pimp products based on personal bias.

On another note, since intel is so "great" at reverse-engineering, then why does the A64 still perform better in 64-bits than the intel carnation? Microsoft themselves have acknowleged this.

 

[Gamingphreek]

I think that intel did the best thing ever. AMD did an awesome job of extending the X86 micro architecture. Intel COULD have used the IA64 architecture but nothing is optimized for that save OS's like Unix. IA 64 would not have done well... no intel made the best choice anyone could have made.

The question is why doesn't AMD ask Intel for some things in return. Why doesn't AMD ask for Hyperthreading and SSE 3. That would really give a performance boost for some people.

-Kevin

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
The question is why doesn't AMD ask Intel for some things in return. Why doesn't AMD ask for Hyperthreading and SSE 3. That would really give a performance boost for some people.

-Kevin

AMD has publicly said that they believe Hyperthreading is garbage. It is their belief that all CPUs have been able to multitask since Microsoft invented Windows, and they would be correct. The one caveat is that intel's method allows much much faster multitasking. Why they don't do it I'm not sure. Some people feel that AMD is too small of a company to adopt such an advanced technology; they simply don't have the R&D budget that intel has.

As for SSE3, I'm sure they'll adopt it as they have adopted every extention since MMX. It's only a matter of time. Maybe the Socket-939 chips will have it?

 

[Acanthus]

AMDs pipeline is too short to take advantage of hyperthreading effectively.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
AMDs pipeline is too short to take advantage of hyperthreading effectively.

Yea and also why take advantage of HT when processors will be dual-cored in the near future.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: SickBeast
As for SSE3, I'm sure they'll adopt it as they have adopted every extention since MMX. It's only a matter of time. Maybe the Socket-939 chips will have it?

"Kevin McGrath, chief architect of the AMD "Hammer" line, recently gave a presentation at Stanford University detailing the forthcoming changes in the next revision of the Athlon 64 and Opteron. Apparently both processor lines will feature full compatibility with SSE3. In fact, it may actually be somewhat better than Intel's SSE3, as the AMD chip will dynamically translate some of the SSE instructions into operations specifically tailored to the "Hammer" design, in some cases lowering latency down to as little as one cycle. Intel's latest "Prescott" iteration of the Pentium 4 design requires many more cycles to complete the same work due to its higher clock speed and deeper pipelines."

Source

 

[SickBeast]

Originally posted by: Algere

Originally posted by: Acanthus
AMDs pipeline is too short to take advantage of hyperthreading effectively.

Yea and also why take advantage of HT when processors will be dual-cored in the near future.

Maybe because it would give you a quad-CPU arrangement, in a more or less sort of way. Intel is indeed doing this with their dual-cored setups, so I would imagine there is a benefit to it or else they wouldn't bother with it at all. I don't think that intel got to the position they are in today by wasting their money inventing stuff.