Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[Sweepr]

Looking at the agressivelly clocked 35W ''T'' desktop quad-cores I'm quite optimistic about the mobile lineup. Honestly there's no place for 37W dual-cores anymore. I expect:

- High-clocked Y / U 4.5-15W dual-cores with GT2, GT3e graphics.
- Few or no 37W dual-cores. Wide range of 37W quads, fewer 47W GT2 models than Haswell.
- GT3e becomes more mainstream, especially for quad-cores.
- High-end 47W+ quad-cores with GT4e graphics, hopefully at sane prices.
- Maybe its time for a 28W mobile quad-core.

 

[Dave3000]

I wonder what the turbo ratios will be for the i7-6700k? The turbo clock is not much higher than the base clock. If the turbo is 4.2 GHz on it then I hope it's 4.2 GHz for all core loads as well by default. I would not want 4.2 GHz on just single core loads and no turbo when more than one core is used.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Won't you hit CPU bottlenecks there?

Nope, don't think so. It's just I/O transfer from SSD to RAM, likely via DMA. I think the CPU will be idle most of the time. Actually based from experience from SW development on embedded systems I think the CPU would be idle most of the time.

 

[Sweepr]

I wonder what the turbo ratios will be for the i7-6700k? The turbo clock is not much higher than the base clock. If the turbo is 4.2 GHz on it then I hope it's 4.2 GHz for all core loads as well by default. I would not want 4.2 GHz on just single core loads and no turbo when more than one core is used.

I guess 4-core Turbo is a tad lower than Core i7 4790K. There might be a higher clocked +200MHz Skylake Refresh variant next year or so. Both IB and Haswell started at 3.5-3.9GHz. It will be fun to see how far Intel will push Skylake.

 

[Sweepr]

So far the early SKUs leak was spot on. I think it's relevant to this thread:

Estimated DDR4 price reduction over time:

 

[jpiniero]

I really have to wonder why Intel bothered to do a separate mask for Desktop dual core if they aren't going to do a mobile equivalent. If they won't do triple core for the i3 desktop, then just do higher clocked U processors.

 

[Enigmoid]

I really have to wonder why Intel bothered to do a separate mask for Desktop dual core if they aren't going to do a mobile equivalent. If they won't do triple core for the i3 desktop, then just do higher clocked U processors.

For the pentium based office computers of course.

When you ship high volumes it makes sense to lanuch more dies especially if those dies can be made cheaper.

 

[jpiniero]

For the pentium based office computers of course.

That's what Bay/Cherry Trail is for.

 

[Sweepr]

Also worthy of note is the absense of GT1 SKUs. Perhaps 2C+GT2 Skylake is so small that they didn't even bother to create another SKU. Lower-clocked GT2-enabled Pentium would be nice now that Braswell is about to bring 16 EUs iGPUs to cheap notebooks/desktops.

 

[Enigmoid]

That's what Bay/Cherry Trail is for.

Aha but those are garbage for the desktop. Needless to say, a lot of institutions will not use Atom for office computers if they are smart.

Of course there is the lucrative i3 market as well.

 

[jpiniero]

Aha but those are garbage for the desktop. Needless to say, a lot of institutions will not use Atom for office computers if they are smart.

Bay/Cherry Trail is more than powerful enough for what office workers really use their computer for though. I'm sure Braswell uses far less power at full load than a typical desktop Core Pentium would at idle. The biggest problem for the typical office machine is lack of ram and no SSD.

That being said, Intel doesn't sell too many Celerons and Pentiums to corporate users. Given that Bay Trail is already 80% of Pentium/Celeron sales, it makes a lot of sense to go that direction.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Bay/Cherry Trail is more than powerful enough for what office workers really use their computer for though. I'm sure Braswell uses far less power at full load than a typical desktop Core Pentium would at idle. The biggest problem for the typical office machine is lack of ram and no SSD.

That being said, Intel doesn't sell too many Celerons and Pentiums to corporate users. Given that Bay Trail is already 80% of Pentium/Celeron sales, it makes a lot of sense to go that direction.

I really cannot fathom a corporate PC purchaser, specifying anything less than a current-gen Core i3 CPU. Given the "endpoint protection", and other such background stuff, I would think that would be prudent.

My Bay Trail-T quad-core HP Stream 7 tablet is fine for basic stuff like web browsing, as long as you do it mostly one at a time. Opening several Newegg pages slows it way down though. Not sure if that's because of the CPU, or lack of RAM. That's WITH NoScript, and not loading 3rd-party ads.

 

[jpiniero]

My Bay Trail-T quad-core HP Stream 7 tablet is fine for basic stuff like web browsing, as long as you do it mostly one at a time. Opening several Newegg pages slows it way down though. Not sure if that's because of the CPU, or lack of RAM. That's WITH NoScript, and not loading 3rd-party ads.

1 GB of ram on Windows is not enough. You could get away with it on Android, but not on Windows. I'd want 4 for Windows. Even on Android I would want 2 GB at least now.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Because I don't need to OC Skylake if it is indeed ~15-20% faster than Haswell. This should mean that 3.3-3.9Ghz i5 Skylake is as fast as ~3.8-4.5Ghz Haswell i5 (OCed 4670K). Why pay more for K Skylake when it performs as well as OCed Haswell?

LOL It is one thing to be uncomfortable with overclocking, but quite another to needlessly limit yourself to lesser CPU's prowess.

I guess you spent too many years on Team Green. :awe:

 

[escrow4]

Bay/Cherry Trail is more than powerful enough for what office workers really use their computer for though. I'm sure Braswell uses far less power at full load than a typical desktop Core Pentium would at idle. The biggest problem for the typical office machine is lack of ram and no SSD.

That being said, Intel doesn't sell too many Celerons and Pentiums to corporate users. Given that Bay Trail is already 80% of Pentium/Celeron sales, it makes a lot of sense to go that direction.

No its not. An office round the block uses i5s for its workers, it has custom database software running for clients plus outlook with thousands of emails, plus a browser with a slab of tabs and this is all loaded up in the morning and doesn't stop until everyone leaves. Buying anything less than an i3 for a desktop makes zero sense. You want a desktop to actually last.

 

[frozentundra123456]

No its not. An office round the block uses i5s for its workers, it has custom database software running for clients plus outlook with thousands of emails, plus a browser with a slab of tabs and this is all loaded up in the morning and doesn't stop until everyone leaves. Buying anything less than an i3 for a desktop makes zero sense. You want a desktop to actually last.

Depends on your use. Our lab is still running Core 2 duos, and even one P4. We use office heavily, and of course e-mail and some database searches like PubMed. Any of the C2D around 3ghz or above are fine. The slower C2D are starting to drag though. The only thing personally i would absolutely rule out for a desktop would be atom/kabini and perhaps big core celerons and single module apus.

 

[alcoholbob]

Another thing is how much does DX12 weigh in on someone with Sandy Bridge or later CPUs? Obviously skylake will help with DX11 games but in a few years there may not be a difference between an overclocked sandy bridge and a cannonlake cpu if it's a properly multithreaded DX12 game as the CPU bound has been completely removed. It may be TDP will be the only selling point for CPU upgrades in the future if games become completely GPU limited.

 

[AtenRa]

You can use ATOM/Kabini based office PCs connected on the cloud and/or through VMs on your personal server. You need minimal execution performance this way from your desktop.
You only need adequate ram capacity on each machine. For example Office 365 online doesnt even need to be installed on the PC and with Microsoft Azure you can run HPC workloads, VMs, analytics etc etc on your puny Atom/Kabini desktop Office PC or any other device.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Bay/Cherry Trail is more than powerful enough for what office workers really use their computer for though. I'm sure Braswell uses far less power at full load than a typical desktop Core Pentium would at idle. The biggest problem for the typical office machine is lack of ram and no SSD.

That being said, Intel doesn't sell too many Celerons and Pentiums to corporate users. Given that Bay Trail is already 80% of Pentium/Celeron sales, it makes a lot of sense to go that direction.

No its not. Atom belongs nowhere in the office space. The only alternative to Core based Pentium/Celeron is i3.

You also base your 80%(83%) number conclusion on the wrong information.

Its only for the ENTRY segment, not the VALUE segment.

 

[ShintaiDK]

You can use ATOM/Kabini based office PCs connected on the cloud and/or through VMs on your personal server. You need minimal execution performance this way from your desktop.
You only need adequate ram capacity on each machine. For example Office 365 online doesnt even need to be installed on the PC and with Microsoft Azure you can run HPC workloads, VMs, analytics etc etc on your puny Atom/Kabini desktop Office PC or any other device.

You havent been to an office or worked with office/company IT have you? because what you describe is what nobody will use because its a complete productivity disaster.

 

[teejee]

You can use ATOM/Kabini based office PCs connected on the cloud and/or through VMs on your personal server. You need minimal execution performance this way from your desktop.
You only need adequate ram capacity on each machine. For example Office 365 online doesnt even need to be installed on the PC and with Microsoft Azure you can run HPC workloads, VMs, analytics etc etc on your puny Atom/Kabini desktop Office PC or any other device.

You don't seem to know how a web based office suit works. There are tons of JavaScript executed locally on the PC, and this is often less efficient than normal client software. So you need a powerful PC for that type of cloud application.
A normal big corporate Excel sheet sucks in a web browser.

 

[jpiniero]

No its not. Atom belongs nowhere in the office space. The only alternative to Core based Pentium/Celeron is i3.

Even the current i3 is overkill for what an office worker does these days. If companies really cared about worker productivity SSDs would have taken over much quicker.

You also base your 80%(83%) number conclusion on the wrong information.

The title of the chart says "Bay Trail % of Celeron/Pentium". Are you suggesting Intel is being misleading?

 

[Sweepr]

Most places I've worked are running ~3GHz 45nm Core 2 Duo or some Pentium/Core i3 variant.
They are surprisingly fast and capable. I'd probably look for a 35W Skylake Pentium/Core i3 if I was building cheap office PCs later this year. Core i5/i7 are kinda overkill for my work needs.

 

[ShintaiDK]

The title of the chart says "Bay Trail % of Celeron/Pentium". Are you suggesting Intel is being misleading?

No, I am saying its you who cant read the slide. It specifc mention its based on the Entry cost segment. While core based Pentiums and Celerons are mainly sold in the Value and Legacy segment.

 

[AtenRa]

You don't seem to know how a web based office suit works. There are tons of JavaScript executed locally on the PC, and this is often less efficient than normal client software. So you need a powerful PC for that type of cloud application.
A normal big corporate Excel sheet sucks in a web browser.

I have also included VMs in-house servers where you cant use could applications. For a typical desktop office you dont need Core i3/5, even if you run office locally on your desktop the latest ATOM/Kabini systems are more than enough for typical workloads.