Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[ibex333]

Can someone please, in simple terms explain the advantages of Skylake over Haswell or even 2nd Gen i5's and i7's for a gamer?

It seems there are very little. My Sandy Bridge i5 overclocked to 4.2 GHz handles any game easily. Why would I want to get a Skylake? Power draw I don't care about. I don't pay for power. What else is there? Are there any reasons to upgrade?

 

[Galatian]

A little year from now. The C model.

Hmmm that was/is the only model I'm really interested in, but sure don't want to wait that long...

 

[Absolute0]

Don't think this was shared here yet

http://hwbot.org/newsflash/2983_skylake_the_day_after_7_world_records_and_17_global_first_places

 

[Deders]

and where with dx11 you need a quadcore, with dx12 dualcore with HT may be ok
but he says the opposite

It's really going to depend on the game itself but both ideas are possibilities.

 

[Phynaz]

If ZEN is competitive forget about low prices from AMD, especially in a time of worst PC economics. But i will say that Intel will have to lower the 6-8 core SKU prices if they want to sell more CPUs in the desktop when DX-12 games will start to require you to have more than a Quad Core i5.

I'll bet you that's a decade away.

 

[TeknoBug]

Don't think this was shared here yet

http://hwbot.org/newsflash/2983_skylake_the_day_after_7_world_records_and_17_global_first_places

I recognize Dancop but don't remember where from. He has a good chunk of those records.

Stopped by Microcenter. The had Z170 Deluxe and the ROG Maximus Hero VIII(Which looks really good.) The Z170 Deluxe was $350 I believe. They have the i7 6700k priced at $380.00 in their system(He said that may not be the final price when its in stock) Not sure why they are not updating their systems with what they have in stock.

And it's a bad time to have those set prices with the drop in PC sales lately, ouch.

 

[shady28]

Don't think this was shared here yet

http://hwbot.org/newsflash/2983_skylake_the_day_after_7_world_records_and_17_global_first_places

Heh...

Model: Intel Core i7 6700K 'Skylake'
Cooling: Liquid Nitrogen
Speed: 6,689MHz (+67.23%)

 

[Edrick]

Does anyone think AVX-512 was cut because of power consumption, even though the FIVR is removed. Also, I wonder how much the lack of FIVR 2.0 will affect Core m..

I read a while back in the developer forums that AVX-512 was going to have severe bottlenecks with the current cache/memory models used by Intel chips. There was discussion that Intel would either need to increase the cache sizes and/or go with a new memory technology to provide better throughput.

With that said, it then makes sense that Intel would only utilize AVX-512 on Knights Landing and Xeon cpus with 4 or 6 memory channels. Or its possible that Skylake-E or Cannonlake increase cache sizes as well. I am sure the details will come out shortly.

 

[Sweepr]

Don't think this was shared here yet

http://hwbot.org/newsflash/2983_skylake_the_day_after_7_world_records_and_17_global_first_places

7 world records broken. Skylake-S will soon top all ST performance metrics. Solid OC potential + top notch IPC.

 

[JAG87]

Can someone please, in simple terms explain the advantages of Skylake over Haswell or even 2nd Gen i5's and i7's for a gamer?

It seems there are very little. My Sandy Bridge i5 overclocked to 4.2 GHz handles any game easily. Why would I want to get a Skylake? Power draw I don't care about. I don't pay for power. What else is there? Are there any reasons to upgrade?

Okay, I'm going to try in the simplest terms possible.

If your computer handles everything you do easily, you don't need to upgrade.

 

[buzbuz22]

I am still using an old system that I built back in Dec '08, and it has started to annoy me on newer games. I've been holding out on upgrading until more details on skylake were released.

I plan on using a new m.2 based PCIe ssd (such as new SM951 NVME when it comes out) as my OS drive on this new system. From what I understand, z97 chipsets don't have PCIe 3.0 available via the chipset PCIe lanes. Meaning that if I want to get full use out of my m.2 PCIe ssd, I would need to plug it in via an adapter to the CPU PCIe lanes. This would mean that my GPU would only get 8 out of the 16 lanes on the CPU. Is this a problem?

If I go for the new z170 chipset I would have plenty of available PCIe 3.0 lanes on the chipset, and my GPU could get all 16 of the lanes that it supports. I don't plan on adding a second video card to this system, so I don't think I need to worry about supporting 2 video cards in addition to the PCIe ssd.

So realistically spending the suspected extra 100ish dollars on a z170 skylake build over a z97 devils canyon build would get me the following benefits:

- Slightly faster CPU performance
- DDR4 instead of DDR3
- 16x PCIe 3.0 lanes for my gpu to use

Are these three bonuses enough to warrant the extra money at this time?

 

[Fjodor2001]

7 world records broken. Skylake-S will soon top all ST performance metrics. Solid OC potential + top notch IPC.

It would only take 1% better performance than the 2 generation old Haswell to achieve that, so quite expected. The interesting thing is by what margin it beats the previous top record, and when looking at that it's not so impressive.

 

[Sweepr]

It would only take 1% better performance than the 2 generation old Haswell to achieve that, so quite expected.

Certainly not to those who predicted lower overclocking headroom. Haswell had lower overclocking potential than Sandy Bridge, despite months of fud (some justified) about 14nm problems Skylake at least keeps up or slightly improves upon Haswell on this front.

 

[Absolute0]

It would only take 1% better performance than the 2 generation old Haswell to achieve that, so quite expected. The interesting thing is by what margin it beats the previous top record, and when looking at that it's not so impressive.

What's impressive is people have had over a year to find the best OCing haswell chips and push them to the max... they've had a few days to overclock a handful of skylake chips. New CPU is faster and this is completely expected of course, but obviously there's a lot more to come.

I for one am happy that this seems to overclock better than everything since SB. Also interested in the delidding talk, as -20C load temperatures could grant an extra 100 Mhz or so (maybe more).

 

[Burpo]

Ya think? :awe:

 

[Pandamonia]

Ya think? :awe:

lets see them do it in windows 7.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Certainly not to those who predicted lower overclocking headroom. Haswell had lower overclocking potential than Sandy Bridge, despite months of fud (some justified) about 14nm problems Skylake at least keeps up or slightly improves upon Haswell on this front.

So Skylake overclocks what... the same or 100 Mhz better than Haswell, and still worse than Sandy Bridge. Is that something to cheer about, when Skylake is on 14 nm, Haswell on 22 nm and Sandy Bridge on 32 nm?

 

[Sweepr]

So Skylake overclocks what... 100 or 200 Mhz better than Haswell, and still worse than Sandy Bridge. Is that something to cheer about, when Skylake is on 14 nm, Haswell on 22 nm and Sandy Bridge on 32 nm?

After Broadwell-K's 4.2-4.3GHz, yes. For those interested in Skylake I mean, which is obviously not your case.

 

[Fjodor2001]

After Broadwell-K's 4.2-4.3GHz, yes. For those interested in Skylake I mean, which is obviously not your case.

Well, in the grand scheme of things, I still don't see much to cheer about regarding Skylake OC, no. Most people are comparing to their old Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge or Haswell desktop CPUs, and then Skylake OCs about the same or worse. It's got somewhat better IPC though, but not really enough to make a huge difference.

And correct, I won't be upgrading to desktop Skylake since I'm on a 3570K currently, so I don't see much need for that. Maybe I'll get an Ultrabook based on Skylake though, depending on how it performs.

 

[Sweepr]

From other forum:

Some reviews mentioned backbuffer color compression for Gen 9 GPU. Color compression is huge for integrated GPUs, as the bandwidth of dual channel DDR3/DDR4 is limited to 25.6 GB/s - 34.1 GB/s (tenth of a high end discrete GPU). Color compression would be an easy 30%+ improvement for purely bandwidth bound cases.

Too bad Intel is silent about Gen 9 till IDF.

 

[Enigmoid]

So Skylake overclocks what... the same or 100 Mhz better than Haswell, and still worse than Sandy Bridge. Is that something to cheer about, when Skylake is on 14 nm, Haswell on 22 nm and Sandy Bridge on 32 nm?

Yep. Skylake on a significantly more immature process with much greater heat density overclocks better than a fully mature 22nm refreshed Haswell. Seems something to be impressed with, especially when it was believed by many to have even less OC headroom and coming on the heels of broadwell C which has even lower overclocking headroom than haswell.

Not to mention of course that compared to the first 4770k's, 4.6 - 4.8 ghz is a good bit higher. I expect with later production batches we will see better overclocking, especially considering the extremely high stock voltage on the i7-6700k.

SB launched on a mature 32nm process. It will be interesting to see how SKL does as 14nm matures. It would have been interesting to see how SKL would have done on a more mature 14nm process.

 

[Fjodor2001]

After Broadwell-K's 4.2-4.3GHz, yes.

BTW: Funny that you consider Broadwell to be a desktop CPU generation now after all. A few days ago you didn't.

 

[Fjodor2001]

Yep. Skylake on a significantly more immature process with much greater heat density overclocks better than a fully mature 22nm refreshed Haswell. Seems something to be impressed with, especially when it was believed by many to have even less OC headroom and coming on the heels of broadwell C which has even lower overclocking headroom than haswell.

Not to mention of course that compared to the first 4770k's, 4.6 - 4.8 ghz is a good bit higher. I expect with later production batches we will see better overclocking, especially considering the extremely high stock voltage on the i7-6700k.

SB launched on a mature 32nm process. It will be interesting to see how SKL does as 14nm matures. It would have been interesting to see how SKL would have done on a more mature 14nm process.

Isn't 14 nm considered mature by now? After all, we're looking at a Tock, since the 14 nm Tick Broadwell already has been released. Sure it might improve further, especially since we're expecting a Tick-Tock-Tock with Kaby Lake...

But e.g. Sandy Bridge performed very well directly at it's Tock release on 32 nm.

 

[Edrick]

So Skylake overclocks what... the same or 100 Mhz better than Haswell, and still worse than Sandy Bridge. Is that something to cheer about, when Skylake is on 14 nm, Haswell on 22 nm and Sandy Bridge on 32 nm?

So either Intel can release a slower clocked cpu with more over clocking headroom (like the 2600k), or they can release a higher clocked cpu with lower over clocking headroom (4790k, 6700k), but at the end of the day, the final OC speeds are very similar.

What is the difference?

Would it make you feel better is the Skylake was released at 3.4Ghz with the ability to OC to 4.8Ghz? As opposed to 4.0-4.8?

You argument is invalid in my opinion.

 

[Sweepr]

BTW: Funny that you consider Broadwell to be a desktop CPU generation now after all. A few days ago you didn't.

I should report you for posting deliberate lies. I never told Broadwell wasn't a generation (made it clear at least 3 times), I told it didn't replace any of the existing desktop Haswell parts which is true. Broadwell-K belong to a new niche segment (LGA Iris Pro on desktop) while regular 2013 Haswell parts where replaced by Haswell Refresh & Devil's Canyon last year and now Skylake-S.