Intel Skylake / Kaby Lake

[sxr7171]

^^^ Sony did external GPUs on their Vaio Z using a proprietary version of Thunderbolt Gen 1. I'm surprised nobody has done it since.

 

[Ghost of Cyrix]

Looking forward to the 6700K finally being available in the U.S., but I am a little annoyed they're taking so long without reliable ETAs.


Gotta say that while I understand people being disappointed with several aspects of Skylake (IPC increase isn't revolutionary, that TIM sucks, where's the eDRAM?, etc.), I don't understand the hyperbole that surrounds Skylake's release; like people saying ludicrous things like "it's no faster" or even "it's actually slower in gaming" while ignoring reviews actually using decent RAM, IPC, and platform improvements to rant about "moar cores" or something; as if it wasn't enough to criticize Skylake's actual shortcomings instead of confirmation biasing false ones into existence.


I also don't get why Intel gave such a low recommended spec on DDR4 RAM speeds when they cripple Skylake so readily and it has such a capable IMC, in the first place, but you've got people giving off silly misinformation to prospective CPU purchasers like this. Both of the "don't waste your money on faster RAM" and "Skylake is inferior" variety.

Even against the 5820K, Skylake has its place with higher max clock speeds, IPC, and Z170 perks.

 

[tential]

What are the Z170 perks?
In a nutshell?

 

[frozentundra123456]

Thunderbolt... the revenge of the dgpu against those pesky igps.

Seriously though, it sounds like a great idea, but is the interface really fast enough for a powerful dgpu, or just for some low level card for hooking up lots of outputs? The other problem I see is that if you want true mobile gaming, lugging around an external card and the associated hardware kind of defeats the purpose. And it still is not going to turn an ultrabook into a gaming powerhouse because it would need a powerful high wattage (relatively) cpu as well.

 

[jpiniero]

I also don't get why Intel gave such a low recommended spec on DDR4 RAM speeds when they cripple Skylake so readily and it has such a capable IMC, in the first place, but you've got people giving off silly misinformation to prospective CPU purchasers like this. Both of the "don't waste your money on faster RAM" and "Skylake is inferior" variety.

The OEMs are mostly going to use DDR3L at least initially, so I imagine there wasn't much motivation to really push the DDR4 speeds. Plus the faster speed requires 1.35V versus 1.2V.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Looking forward to the 6700K finally being available in the U.S., but I am a little annoyed they're taking so long without reliable ETAs.


Gotta say that while I understand people being disappointed with several aspects of Skylake (IPC increase isn't revolutionary, that TIM sucks, where's the eDRAM?, etc.), I don't understand the hyperbole that surrounds Skylake's release; like people saying ludicrous things like "it's no faster" or even "it's actually slower in gaming" while ignoring reviews actually using decent RAM, IPC, and platform improvements to rant about "moar cores" or something; as if it wasn't enough to criticize Skylake's actual shortcomings instead of confirmation biasing false ones into existence.


I also don't get why Intel gave such a low recommended spec on DDR4 RAM speeds when they cripple Skylake so readily and it has such a capable IMC, in the first place, but you've got people giving off silly misinformation to prospective CPU purchasers like this. Both of the "don't waste your money on faster RAM" and "Skylake is inferior" variety.

Even against the 5820K, Skylake has its place with higher max clock speeds, IPC, and Z170 perks.

I see you are new to the forums, you may be in for a rude awakening. I totally agree with you, but logical arguments seem to have little relevance lately, and the anti-intel lobby is very vocal.

Personally, I pretty much agree with you, Skylake is a decent improvement, but considering it is basically a tick plus a tock, I was hoping for more. It is also unfortunate that it requires fast DDR4 for best performance, but that will be less and less of a negative as faster and lower latency DDR4 becomes mainstream. I was also hoping that it would be more focused toward max performance instead of mobile, but as usual the focus appears to be toward performance per watt and igp. But yea, some of the arguments against Skylake are simply absurd.

 

[cmdrdredd]

What are the Z170 perks?
In a nutshell?

20 PCIe 3.0 lanes on the chipset, Native support for USB 3.1, native support for HDMI 2.0 if manufacturers use it

This has a pretty good rundown of the Z170 chipset and what it offers over Z97.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9485/...-asrock-asus-gigabyte-msi-ecs-evga-supermicro

 

[Deders]

What are the Z170 perks?
In a nutshell?

M.2. NVMe support, 2000MB/s read and writes reads and over 50% better 4k random performance, where computers usually slow down the most. And that is just the first commercially available M.2. NVMe drive.

 

[Sweepr]

Well it didn't take long. Core M (Skylake-Y) + Windows 10 + high-PPI 12'' Super AMOLED tablet by Samsung? iPad Pro will have some serious competition. 600g and 6.2mm sound very light/slim for a Core-based device, amazing if they can pull it off.

Rumor: Samsung Working On a 12-inch Windows 10 Tablet

According to the same leaker who has recently made public the alleged Geekbench 3 results of a lot of next gen mobile chipsets, Samsung is currently working on a 12-inch, Windows 10 powered tablet.

Allegedly, the tablet will feature a 12-inch Super AMOLED display, but the source doesn’t exactly know the resolution. According to him, the tablet will have either a 2560×1600 resolution display or a 3840×2400 one.

Other rumored specs are a 14-nm Intel Core M processor, 4 GB of RAM memory and an included S-Pen. The tablet will reportedly be 6.2 mm thin and will weigh 600 grams.

www.gforgames.com/gadgets/samsung-12-inch-windows-10-tablet-48280

If you missed last page:

Perhaps one of the most eagerly awaited possibilities of Thunderbolt 3:

Intel says Thunderbolt 3 will bring external graphics to laptops

The lines between desktop and notebook computers are getting thinner and thinner. Intel has announced plans to bring its enterprise-class Xeon processors to notebooks, and offer unlocked, overclockable K series processors for notebooks later this year. Want even more power in your notebook? How about an external graphics card?

Intel says notebooks that feature Thunderbolt 3 ports will be able to connect to external graphics docks. This lets you use a high-power graphics card with your notebook while powering up to two 4K displays (in addition to your laptop display).

Thunderbolt 3 uses a USB Type-C reversible connector. That one tiny Thunderbolt 3 port can be used to connect a docking station that lets you output video to multiple displays, connect an external hard drive, keyboard, mouse, headphones and Ethernet cable. And since Thunderbolt 3 can handle up to 100 watts of power, you can also charge your laptop through its Thunderbolt port at the same time.

Intel is showing off a sample graphics dock with an AMD Radeon R9 M385 graphics card at IDF in San Francisco. But we could eventually see third-party graphics docks that let you add your own graphics card. This could let you buy high-performance graphics cards designed for desktop computers and use them with your notebook. And it could also let you upgrade in the future when you’re no longer happy with that card’s performance

http://liliputing.com/2015/08/intel-says-thunderbolt-3-will-bring-external-graphics-to-laptops.html

IDF 15: Form Factor Reference Design: Developing a 2 in 1 Detachable Ultrabook™ System
https://hubb.blob.core.windows.net/...Cmp8nLWT7NftQ=&se=2015-08-21T19:50:07Z&sp=rwd

Core i5 6600T Geekbench 3 Score
http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/3243697

First Geekbench submission of this 35W T model is ~25% faster @ MT than the best Core i5 4590T score (also 35W) and about on par with some locked 84W Haswell Core i5s. Skylake is bringing substantial performance boosts at lower TDPs.

Looking forward to the 6700K finally being available in the U.S., but I am a little annoyed they're taking so long without reliable ETAs.

Gotta say that while I understand people being disappointed with several aspects of Skylake (IPC increase isn't revolutionary, that TIM sucks, where's the eDRAM?, etc.), I don't understand the hyperbole that surrounds Skylake's release; like people saying ludicrous things like "it's no faster" or even "it's actually slower in gaming" while ignoring reviews actually using decent RAM, IPC, and platform improvements to rant about "moar cores" or something; as if it wasn't enough to criticize Skylake's actual shortcomings instead of confirmation biasing false ones into existence.

I also don't get why Intel gave such a low recommended spec on DDR4 RAM speeds when they cripple Skylake so readily and it has such a capable IMC, in the first place, but you've got people giving off silly misinformation to prospective CPU purchasers like this. Both of the "don't waste your money on faster RAM" and "Skylake is inferior" variety.

Even against the 5820K, Skylake has its place with higher max clock speeds, IPC, and Z170 perks.

Welcome to AnandTech. Couldn't agree more with your post.

Thunderbolt... the revenge of the dgpu against those pesky igps.

Seriously though, it sounds like a great idea, but is the interface really fast enough for a powerful dgpu, or just for some low level card for hooking up lots of outputs? The other problem I see is that if you want true mobile gaming, lugging around an external card and the associated hardware kind of defeats the purpose. And it still is not going to turn an ultrabook into a gaming powerhouse because it would need a powerful high wattage (relatively) cpu as well.

100W and full PCIe 3.0 4x bandwidth, enough for some very capable dGPUs. IMHO Skylake-U (high-clocked 2C/4T) and Skylake-H (4C/4T & 4C/8T) will be able keep up with one of them.
I like the idea of a dGPU docking station, this way power users can have a stylish thin and light notebook without the added cost/bulk of a dGPU. Then if you actually need better graphics instead of low-end <30W rebadged stuff from AMD/NVIDIA theoretically you could pair your system with a much more powerful external solution. Also if your CPU is still fine you could replace your dGPU docking station in the future. I'm with the Apple crowd on this, we need this solutions on the market.

 

[TeknoBug]

Wow @ that PCI-E SSD Thunderbolt performance.

 

[iSkylaker]

The Skylake Family

Wonder if that embargo has something to do with the launch of the locked models i7-6700, i5-6600 and rest that cpu-world mentioned in this article.

 

[witeken]

Intel has not yet decided if its DDR4 extensions for Optane will be proprietary or not. See page 2: http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1327465&page_number=2.

 

[Sweepr]

Skylake-H Specifications (CPU-World)

www.cpu-world.com/news_2015/2015082001_Specifications_of_Intel_Skylake-H_mobile_processors.html

These are the first models, September-October launch. GT4e and 25W models should be available later.

IDF 15: Memory Plans for Intel® Architecture Based Client and Enterprise Platforms
https://hubb.blob.core.windows.net/...d4WXXX4RiXJuc=&se=2015-08-22T08:30:05Z&sp=rwd

We expect improved supply of Core i7-6700k processors in North America soon.

https://twitter.com/intel/status/633326911545049088

 

[witeken]

Gen9 is a really nice architecture. If you look at following tweet and his other tweets:

https://twitter.com/scottwasson/status/634414461219004416

Intel's done a really good job catching up, with Gen9 for Cannonlake and presumably more in the pipeline.

But people tend to focus on the bad stuff, like how Intel's mobile stuff is behind, ignoring that they really are catching up. You see the same with Xeon Phi too. Intel leads in process technology and architecture, and they're competent to take that same position in other markets they're pursuing.

I do wonder, though, how competitive Gen9 is equalized for process node in terms of performance per watt and mm2, say on 28nm.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Gen9 is a really nice architecture. If you look at following tweet and his other tweets:

https://twitter.com/scottwasson/status/634414461219004416

Intel's done a really good job catching up, with Gen9 for Cannonlake and presumably more in the pipeline.

I think we will see the rate of improvement accelerate with respect to Intel graphics and media. Intel seems to have stepped its investments up significantly in this area and we're now just beginning to see the fruits of that labor.

 

[frozentundra123456]

lets hope so. So far intel in igp has been like amd in CPU----always just wait for the next gen, but when it gets here, kind of disappointing. Preliminary results for skylake seem promising though. But they need faster improvements in architecture, drivers, efficiency. I don't really know, but something more than just throwing more transistors at the problem.

 

[Nhirlathothep]

i don t like this thread.
u talk only about the useless cheap, stinky socket 1151.
is there a release date for the real Skylake ?

 

[witeken]

I'm reading this interesting interview by SemiEngineering with An Steegen from Imec. She has something interesting to say about 7nm node (Intel's 10):

Steegen: One of the differences between germanium, silicon-germanium and III-V is that the epitaxial growth for III-Vs is way more challenging. To control the defects, III-V has proven to be more challenging. That’s one thing. The second thing is that you don’t combine two difficult things at the same node. So combining a nanowire and III-V material is, of course, a very big step. In my opinion, it’s not going to happen at the same time. III-V readiness needs to mature further. That will likely get pushed out.

http://semiengineering.com/what-works-after-7nm/

Intel will likely do both Ge, III-V and QW FET at the same time. Maybe the latter will only be introduced at 7nm with EUV and maaaaybe 450mm, but combined with the 2.1x scaling and the air gaps, Intel's 10nm III-V might be vastly superior to what other foundries ridiculously call 7nm . Lol.

It's also just a matter of time before we hear delays from Samsung and TSMC after all the hype they've been pushing for their 10nm FinFET in "2017" or even "2016" ROFL.

 

[tenks]

I found this really interesting...

I personally always felt Core gen1 was "Core/Yonah" and maybe Core 2/Conroe because of how huge and well known it became due to its success. BUt I know officially Core gens start with the i3/i5/i7 moniker's with Nehalem..But I guess it goes even further.

The first true core gen according to Intel was the first time they put a iGPU on the package, with clarkdale/arrandale.

Random, but interesting. "Why skylake is 6th gen"

 

[ame132]

i don t like this thread. u talk only about the useless cheap, stinky socket 1151. is there a release date for the real Skylake ?

for me, GT4e is the real Skylake, sadly, Intel is pussyfooting with its big die

 

[Sweepr]

I think we will see the rate of improvement accelerate with respect to Intel graphics and media. Intel seems to have stepped its investments up significantly in this area and we're now just beginning to see the fruits of that labor.

Agreed. Phoronix posted some HD Graphics 530 benchmark results under Linux:

Impressive numbers by the new Gen 9 GT2 iGPU. There's a lot of potential here, imagine what GT4e will do.

Edit: Just saw this:

Some hints about SKylake-S Celeron, Pentium and Core i3 clocks. Fastest Core i3 should have a 3.9GHz base clock.

 

[cytg111]

System seems 24.7 stable, been on Arma 3 for a few hours and i can tell ive got a much faster system. FPS drops are much less severe and the FPS is much more stable in the town areas.

4.7ghz Skylake is like a 5ghz Haswell so im happy with the uprade from a semi stable 4.3ghz 4770k!

Yall understand that if

System seems 24.7 stable, been on Arma 3 for a few hours and i can tell ive got a much faster system. FPS drops are much less severe and the FPS is much more stable in the town areas.

4.7ghz FX 9590 is like a 5ghz AMD blabla so im happy with the uprade from a semi stable 4.3ghz 8320!

yall be tearing him a newone.. anyway lets keep the metrics, 5ghz vs 4.3 ~15% clock increase -> 7-8% actual, on the ground, performance increase.. For the cost of a WHOLE NEW BUILD. Im sorry but thats nuts.

 

[Sweepr]

According to Hardware.fr Skylake outperforms Haswell by 15.6% per clock in Arma III. Coupled with higher stable clocks (4.3GHz vs 4.7GHz) he could very well be looking at ~25% better performance in CPU-limited areas of the game. Enough to justify an upgrade? It's up to him to decide, and he seems satisfied with the new system.

 

[dark zero]

Agreed. Phoronix posted some HD Graphics 530 benchmark results under Linux:

Impressive numbers by the new Gen 9 GT2 iGPU. There's a lot of potential here, imagine what GT4e will do.

Edit: Just saw this:
http://itndaily.ru/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/tabl6-nagrev.png

Some hints about SKylake-S Celeron, Pentium and Core i3 clocks. Fastest Core i3 should have a 3.9GHz base clock.

RIP AMD and GTX 960 and lower... Intel practically destroyed both with the Skylake iGPU... If Gt2 is as strong as a GTX750, Iris Pro could reach easily GTX960 levels....

 

[Pandamonia]

Yall understand that if



yall be tearing him a newone.. anyway lets keep the metrics, 5ghz vs 4.3 ~15% clock increase -> 7-8% actual, on the ground, performance increase.. For the cost of a WHOLE NEW BUILD. Im sorry but thats nuts.

Don't forget I had a faulty system which amazon gave me a full refund on the mobo 2 years old! My friend bought my old ram and cpu and cooler for eBay money less the fees. He's got a good deal which helps him since he's not got lots of cash to spend. Upgrade cost is £350 net. My system is fast and stable. It's kept me entertained building it and now playing on it.

To me it's small cost for fun